34 replies to this topic

[Artgathan]

SRMs are a really weak weapon. After splashing countless mechs with SRM 12 / 24 Barrages, and watching their armor take minimal damage (I'm talking about firing a full volley at 10m into an Atlas, seeing the majority of the missiles strike one component, and only turning the armor yellow). I used to put SRMs on my mechs because they were good (a long time ago). Now they're there mostly as space fillers.

I bring this up now because the latest patch claimed to have HSR improvements (previously the defense for the weak SRMs was that "they'd be OP once HSR fixed them").

In my opinion there's two problems with SRMs:

• They don't do enough damage
  
• They spread too wide (yes, even with Artemis)

My point here isn't to suggest that SRMs turn into a high-damage pinpoint weapon. If they're meant to be armor strippers, keep the spread the way it is now and boost the damage. If they're meant to be more "precision" based weapons, keep the damage and tighten the spread.

Either way, something needs to be done. SRMs are a staple brawling weapon and right now they are severely lacking.

[NinetyProof]

Probably ... SRM's have been bad for awhile, but there is nothing PGI *could* do till HSR was at least somewhat fixed. Now they can collect data for a couple of days, then look and see if more HSR fixing is needed (maybe what they did wasn't even *meant* to fix SRM HSR issues, etc, etc) then decide what they should do next (fix more HSR, increase damage, increase splash, etc, etc).

[Swervedriver]

There was a time not too long ago, when the Catapult A-1 with 6 SRMs was the most feared mech in the game.

Today, not so much.

Blame the cheese, blame the whiners, whatever.

The answers to this has never been to "nerf" the weapons...it was to boost the armor on all mechs so there's more back and forth gameplay.

The current state of SRMs has nothing to do with HSR. It's all about the "nerfs" to satisfy the whiners.

Players should be able to play the way they want, with whatever weapon systems they want, configured in whatever way they want without too much penalty other than heat. That said, you shouldn't be able to take out a mech (barring a super lucky shot to the head) in one or two alphas.

De-nerf the weapons. Boost the armor. Let the mechs duke it out and trade blows for 10-15 minutes. Rinse and Repeat.

As it stands, matches end too fast. Mechs blow up too easy. And people always whine about this weapon or that weapon.

Really, you should be bitching about how much your armor is worth in a world of pin point accuracy compared to a dice roll of table top. Lower armor values work great on table top, but not so much in a FPS.

[Corbon Zackery]

AMS systems are now effectively tracking SRM and destroying them as they come into 90m of range before there was a gap where AMS would not track and destroy missile under 90m that's not the case any more. That's what seems to be happening in this case that you describe your seeing a lot missile explosions but some of those explosions are from missiles being shot down by a AMS System. SRMs don't suck there used to critical weapon systems they fire out as a shotgun barrage.

I make this perfectly clear every weapons system in MechWarrior online has a purpose and its up to you as a mech pilot to figure out how to use that weapon system effectively.

Too many times I spectated match were a guys running 4 AC 5 with 1500 ammo that's 375 shots and about 6 tons of explosive ammo.

[Artgathan]

Corbon Zackery, on 05 September 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

AMS systems are now effectively tracking SRM and destroying them as they come into 90m of range before there was a gap where AMS would not track and destroy missile under 90m that's not the case any more. That's what seems to be happening in this case that you describe your seeing a lot missile explosions but some of those explosions are from missiles being shot down by a AMS System. SRMs don't suck there used to critical weapon systems they fire out as a shotgun barrage.

AMS is not the problem. 90% of mechs I engage do not carry AMS, and even if they did a single AMS can only destroy 2-3 SRMs out of a 12 SRM barrage.

Also, SRMs are not meant to be crit seeking weapons. Weapons that are (such as MGs and LBX) receive a bonus to their ability to deal critical hits. SRMs receive no such bonus.

Edited by Artgathan, 05 September 2013 - 11:39 AM.

[N a p e s]

Really? I was having issues with SRMs not dealing damage to targets pre-patch but since the last one I've felt a definite improvement. So HSR was at least part of the problem. My QKD-4H which I've neglected because of these issues has even made a pleasant return just because of the fix.

It still sounds like some of the problem you're experiencing might still be connected to hit registration. Maybe subsequent fixes will improve your experience as well.

I disagree about artemis not making the spread tight enough though. My first game back with the QKD (w/o Artemis) made me rethink my build to add artemis and it seems like it paid off. Most missiles seems to hit only one or two torso sections on the bigger targets which I believe is ok. I'd argue that the spread on regular SRMs should be tighter but it might invalidate the use of artemis on SRMs completely.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

By and large I've found that most of my weapons register more often since the patch, but SRMs felt like the exception. Hitting a Hunchback with a full spread of 36 SRMs from a D-DC only to see his armor change one color code (yellow to light orange, or light orange to dark orange, or whatever) is a bit irritating.

I suspect that SRMs have lingering hit detection issues (which PGI was already aware that SRMs were worse off than other weapons with hit registration). Sure, HSR might be better, but if the underlying hit registration for the system as a whole is borked it won't matter how good HSR is. HSR just compensates for ping differences; it is not a magic bullet for all hit registration bugs.

[Accursed Richards]

Swervedriver, on 05 September 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

De-nerf the weapons. Boost the armor.

Make up your mind.

[Bhael Fire]

I have to agree with the OP; both streak and regular SRMs need some more love. Right now I only use SRMs if a have extra room for them.

[Zyllos]

The reason why SRMs are bad is because all other weapons are pin point focused in dealing damage when firing multiples.

As soon as all weapons do not hit a single point when fired together (like missiles), then you will begin to notice that the game will play COMPLETELY different.

Mechs that normally were deathtraps can actually take a few hits and mechs with large hit locations don't always take damage to those locations.

Using the TT distribution of armor points with the ability to aim all laser/direct fire weapons makes those weapons too good while LRMs/SRMs are back to dealing damage like how they do in the TT.

Hopefully, after being harped on for ages (basically sense before MWO was even opened for closed beta), PGI will notice that focused, aimed, weapon damage has to be alleviated and the only way to do this is by introducing a CoF system based on weapons fired and actions current taken.

[Kunae]

Swervedriver, on 05 September 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

There was a time not too long ago, when the Catapult A-1 with 6 SRMs was the most feared mech in the game.

Hahahahahahahahahaha...........no.

'splat-cats, as they're affectionately known, have never been the "most feared mech in the game". They are a gimmick build, and easily neutralized.

[jakucha]

Kunae, on 05 September 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Hahahahahahahahahaha...........no.

'splat-cats, as they're affectionately known, have never been the "most feared mech in the game". They are a gimmick build, and easily neutralized.

They were markedly annoying when srm damage was bugged.

[Bhael Fire]

Kunae, on 05 September 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Hahahahahahahahahaha...........no.

'splat-cats, as they're affectionately known, have never been the "most feared mech in the game". They are a gimmick build, and easily neutralized.

As former splat cat pilot back in closed beta and early days of open, I can attest to the fact they were not as powerful as people seem to think they were. The were basically useless beyond point blank range. They were fun, but they were pretty easy to kill.

[Aurien Titus]

Artgathan, on 05 September 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I bring this up now because the latest patch claimed to have HSR improvements (previously the defense for the weak SRMs was that "they'd be OP once HSR fixed them").

Unfortunately the patch notes are vague and be damned if PGI will say anything about it, so we have no idea if the issue between SRM's and HSR is fixed or supposed to be fixed. My guess would be that if they're still performing the same, then they haven't fixed the issue. If they had fixed it, then the damage on the missiles should have been lowered from the community vote to raise the damage temporarily.

Edited by Aurien Titus, 05 September 2013 - 01:57 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I actually think the Streakcats were a bit more dangerous than the Splat. The Streakcats still had the range issue, but they ran cooler, could fit big engines and when the streaks were CT seeking, they were brutal to anything smaller than an Assault. Of course ether mech regardless has big easy to hit missile racks. I think if the SRMs and SSRMs were made better, the Kintaro that can fit 5 of them and run at about 100kph would be a beast.

[Sheraf]

Artgathan, on 05 September 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

SRMs are a really weak weapon. After splashing countless mechs with SRM 12 / 24 Barrages, and watching their armor take minimal damage (I'm talking about firing a full volley at 10m into an Atlas, seeing the majority of the missiles strike one component, and only turning the armor yellow). I used to put SRMs on my mechs because they were good (a long time ago). Now they're there mostly as space fillers.

I bring this up now because the latest patch claimed to have HSR improvements (previously the defense for the weak SRMs was that "they'd be OP once HSR fixed them").

In my opinion there's two problems with SRMs:

• They don't do enough damage
  
• They spread too wide (yes, even with Artemis)

My point here isn't to suggest that SRMs turn into a high-damage pinpoint weapon. If they're meant to be armor strippers, keep the spread the way it is now and boost the damage. If they're meant to be more "precision" based weapons, keep the damage and tighten the spread.


Either way, something needs to be done. SRMs are a staple brawling weapon and right now they are severely lacking.

SSRM is not the weapon you use to deal with Atlas.

[Royalewithcheese]

This has honestly not been my SRM vs. Atlas experience. Maybe it's a hit detection thing?

EDIT: Although it can't be stressed enough that Atlai have a ****-ton of armor. Say that like 75% of an SRM12 blast hits (i.e., facehug and/or Artemis) a single component, that's 18 damage. It's not, like, nothing, but it's not going to turn your armor red either.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 05 September 2013 - 04:56 PM.

[Tsula]

You all do realize they buffed them back up from a community poll they did. Think they are pretty spot on now for what they are.

[Artgathan]

Sheraf, on 05 September 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

SSRM is not the weapon you use to deal with Atlas.

I never mentioned SSRMs in the OP. SSRMs are also pretty useless, but for different reasons.

Royalewithcheese, on 05 September 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

This has honestly not been my SRM vs. Atlas experience. Maybe it's a hit detection thing?

Possibly, I get the impression that HSR is still not very good in it's current state. Just for reference, my average ping in game is somewhere in the 50/60 range.

Hit detection aside, the missiles just don't do very much damage. They spread out (fine) and then hit several different components for 2 damage each (not fine). Often two missiles will hit the same component (4 damage) and rarely 3 missiles will hit the same component (6 damage). Those aren't fantastic numbers for a weapon system that has a hard range limit, requires ammo and absorbs 6-9 tons (depending on the 3 X SRM4 v 3 X SRM6) and that doesn't include ammo or Artemis.

[Artgathan]

tsula, on 05 September 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

You all do realize they buffed them back up from a community poll they did. Think they are pretty spot on now for what they are.

What about them is exactly spot on?

SRM2 = 1 Ton, 1 Crit + 1 Ton Ammo = 2 Tons, 1 Crit for 4 Damage (spread over multiple components)
ML = 1 Ton, 1 Crit for 5 Damage, which a skilled pilot can put all into the same place.

Also, AMS can defeat SRM missiles, while the only thing that can stop a ML is cover.