40 replies to this topic

[Kazairl]

I understand the changes to PPC's are to stop Alpha-stirke snipers. But what about us?

As a dedicated Spotter (Raven 3L) I always felt that a single ERPPC was the only viable weapon of choice.

I always appreciated the fact that in short range duels with other fast movers I was at a serious disadvantage. With this patch however I get a reduction in throughput by 25% not to mention the difficulties in hitting a transing target with the new slower projectile. It has killed my spotter build. Now I may as well log off when I see a Jenner coming.

So what can I use now instead of an ERPPC?

Other options for my build are:
2x ERLLaser: too heavy, and makes the firers position VERY obvious.
1x PPC: leaves me defenseless at short range.
1x LRM10: still defenseless at short range, but also ammo dependent and inaccurate.
2x MLaser: Not enough firepower and makes the firers position obvious.
2x MPLaser: Good dps, but WAY too short range and makes the firers position obvious.
1x SRM6: Impossible to hit a transing target, ammo dependent, too inaccurate and too short range.

Seriously; was a single ERPPC Raven over powered?

[AntiCitizenJuan]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e6bffe47d96100d


Yeah, no.

You can pretty much fire this forever.

TL;DR: QQ

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 04 September 2013 - 08:39 PM.

[Kazairl]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 04 September 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e6bffe47d96100d


Yeah, no.

You can pretty much fire this forever.

TL;DR: QQ

Sorry I assumed "dedicated spotter" included the assumption of spotting equipment.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...87d3f4ca07c797a

Edited by Kazairl, 04 September 2013 - 08:45 PM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Kazairl, on 04 September 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Sorry I assumed "dedicated spotter" included the assumption spotting equipment.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...87d3f4ca07c797a

This still has great cooling. And you could easily just remove NARC and the one ton of ammunition considering that it's totally useless.

[SteelPaladin]

Just be glad you've got speed and ECM on your side. If you were this guy, you'd be humped in MWO: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Panther

[Kazairl]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 04 September 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

NARC - that it's totally useless.

Yeah you are right. It does no damage at all. In-fact it only reveals the location, disposition and movement of enemy forces to all 11 team mates. How useless.

Sorry for the sarcasm. Ok Narc maybe underpowered atm as a LRM aid, but it is still far from useless as a battlefield intelligence aid, especially in groups without voice comms.

[Victor Morson]

Please reconsider them.. and make the same decision.

I cannot believe people are crying over the PPC being nerfed to "Good" from "Primary gun for nine months."

Kazairl, on 04 September 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Seriously; was a single ERPPC Raven over powered?

That's not overpowered.. and it still works.

Edited by Victor Morson, 04 September 2013 - 09:14 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Kazairl, on 04 September 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

I understand the changes to PPC's are to stop Alpha-stirke snipers. But what about us?

As a dedicated Spotter (Raven 3L) I always felt that a single ERPPC was the only viable weapon of choice.

I always appreciated the fact that in short range duels with other fast movers I was at a serious disadvantage. With this patch however I get a reduction in throughput by 25% not to mention the difficulties in hitting a transing target with the new slower projectile. It has killed my spotter build. Now I may as well log off when I see a Jenner coming.

So what can I use now instead of an ERPPC?

Other options for my build are:
2x ERLLaser: too heavy, and makes the firers position VERY obvious.
1x PPC: leaves me defenseless at short range.
1x LRM10: still defenseless at short range, but also ammo dependent and inaccurate.
2x MLaser: Not enough firepower and makes the firers position obvious.
2x MPLaser: Good dps, but WAY too short range and makes the firers position obvious.
1x SRM6: Impossible to hit a transing target, ammo dependent, too inaccurate and too short range.

Seriously; was a single ERPPC Raven over powered?

I actually agree with the idea of your post.

I run mixed, general purpose builds designed primarily to be able to function as a jack-of-all trades, master of none type of mech. I used PPC/ER PPCs alot in singles and pairs to give some of my mechs a bit more sniper flavor just to mix things up a bit over a standard heat efficient LL build. The PPC/ER PPC was hotter on these builds but were still cool enough to be somewhat effective in a sustained close range duel if and when the fight called for it. This too me seemed perfectly balanced for these sort of builds. Additionally I have never ran the boat or cheese builds.

Now with the changes a good portion of my preferred, mixed builds are totally useless and I am back to being able to use ONLY LLs for these builds. I have ZERO other options available to me any more. Basically I feel like I am being punished to fix an issue totally unrelated to me or how I run my builds. It is frustrating to say the least.

Now I absolutely do not feel that a ER PPC on a Raven is the ONLY viable build, nor do I think it is even a good build but where the OP has a valid point is that the changes basically screw over anyone who was using PPC/ER PPC and Gauss in reasonable builds.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 04 September 2013 - 09:33 PM.

[Drollzy]

IMO slowing down the PPC speed and ghost heat should have been enough but PGI as usual always over play a nerf and added more heat to the ppc and erppc. Simple's money now going to my star citizen account and no more to MWO I got enough mechs last count 52 lol and I only use 4 of them regularly .... It is good being able to brawl effectively again tho

[GMAK]

You can use ac2. It have a long range.

[Lord Ikka]

Slower projectile just means more lead time- otherwise your build doesn't need to change.

[Bromineberry]

I would go with something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7238e101d1abe96

It's reasonably quick, it uses the maximum amount of "real" DHS (aka. engine DHS), you can fire the ER-PPC for a long time before having to care about heat and you still have ECM, BAP and your tag laser. In all honesty, I can't see how NARC is worth 4 (!!!) tons including 1 ton of ammo. It's so much weight for what it does...especially considering, that the range is only 450m and 4 tons only give you 12 shots.

Edited by Bromineberry, 04 September 2013 - 10:15 PM.

[627]

I have a ERPPC in my Cicada 3C with only 10 engine DHS and i don't overheat. Ok there're 4MGs that make no heat, though. But if you need to fire that ERPPC nonstop then add some more Sinks or change it to a normal PPC.

It is (now) a specialist weapon and not all purpose. You don't go in CQC with a sniper rifle, do you?

[Angel of Annihilation]

cdrolly, on 04 September 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

IMO slowing down the PPC speed and ghost heat should have been enough but PGI as usual always over play a nerf and added more heat to the ppc and erppc. Simple's money now going to my star citizen account and no more to MWO I got enough mechs last count 52 lol and I only use 4 of them regularly .... It is good being able to brawl effectively again tho

Honestly I feel the same way. If they would have just slowed down the projectile plus the ghost heat, I would have just nodded and carried on with the game. Instead, all my PPC centric builds just became useless and I am not talking the Cheese builds PGI was trying to discourage either.

Also like you I did the same thing. I was going to renew my premium time and purchase the Saber Pack but after seeing the PPC and Gauss nerfs, decided to reinvest into a shinny new Origin Jumpworks 300i and Bounty Hunter Package instead.

[Kahoumono]

I think the ppcs will be buffed a bit in the later patches. That's how the devs seem to "balance" this game, whack-a-mole style. Take whatever weapon is the most popular, whack the hell out of it, get people mad, backtrack and repeat. They clearly are not balancing weapons based on statistics because they introduce multiple adjustments in each change thus making it impossible to draw any statistically significant conclusions. Eg, how would they separate the decrease in damage of the PPC from the velocity of the weapon and the increase in heat? Getting back to the subject, they have done a good job to decouple the PPC and gauss rifle and the ghost heat takes the mad PPC builds off the table so why they see a need to almost completely take long range engagements out of the game is beyond me. Since the PPC can't hit reliably at range anymore it isn't a worthwhile weapon to take as an alternative to the gauss rifle. This seriously hurts the lights and mediums which do not have the weight to equip a gauss rifle. If they had solved the root of the problem, high alpha convergence, from the get go they wouldn't be band aid fixing continuously. Let the brawlers rain supreme, for now.

[Victor Morson]

PPC might stand to use some tuning yet, but it is FAR MORE IN LINE with where it needs to be. FAR. It's still fairly heavy hitting and with the HSR now, the 1500 velocity is fine.

So far I'm still considering PPCs a competitive weapon, even. They're not bad for their weight, at all, if you have the heat to sport them - and there's no dual gauss assaults anyway, so what are you going to do?

[Mycrus]

Reminds me of the - I'm getting motion sickness please allow me to poptart again..

[Stoicblitzer]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 04 September 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

This still has great cooling. And you could easily just remove NARC and the one ton of ammunition considering that it's totally useless.

you put narc on something. FOR SHAME ACJ!

[Kazairl]

627, on 04 September 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

It is (now) a specialist weapon and not all purpose. You don't go in CQC with a sniper rifle, do you?

This is kinda what I am getting at. CQC is like death and taxes. It happens whether you want it to or not. The slower you are the more likely it is going to happen. It is for that reason I started using a ER over the PPC. It is a more general weapon with no min range. I accepted the fact that in CQC I was at a serious disadvantage. I just don't think that disadvantage needed exaggerating.

The one thing I thought was generally excepted going into this patch was that small-fast mechs with lots of lasers were over powered. And from my perspective that has only increased with the PPC nerfs.

[Bishop Steiner]

of mixed minds.

Yes, my Quickdraw, and some of my heavier hitting builds re taking a hit, but I gotta ask, SHOULD they?

I have been running an Orion with dual PPC, and firing with reasonable aplomb. And I realized this: Warhammers, Marauders and such were packing dual PPC, and they could barely control the heat load. With DHS, that should be less an issue, but with firing 3x the rate, should still struggle.

People are complaining about pinpoint damage, and fast death due to coring, maybe this is actually a good thing. I would certainly rather have to manage my heat than have the weapon damaged reduced to paper cut levels as so many others have recommended. With the changes in Gauss, it's hardly like PPCs/ ERPPCs are getting totally left behind. The ability to boat and go hog wild is.

My only real knock is the removal of all damage under 90 meters decision. With the reduction in projectile speed and increase in heat, the nerf to PBR damage seems extreme, and is more an issue to me than the heat, TBH.