33 replies to this topic

[ChallengerCC]

I would say **** on the MW rules and make a balanced game with pros and cons of both factions.
The rules dont even yet get observed. Stay with storry and names but **** on the tabletop rules this game is not a tabletop. Same for the laser system, why so complicated? Make it like it is in reality. 1. Lase, 2. Lock the laser 3. Shoot Rocket 4. Hit the lase with rockets.
Not holding a lock with a laser thats stupid. The same with the weapon ranges.
I know a lot will say, i am a heretic. Old is old and new is new. Stick with old ****** rules that are historicly grown is stupid in my opinion. Hold only the core features, storry, mechs etc.and dont build a crude game with a crude gameplay.

[Daneiel]

I will present my vision , even that is completely different from the current game mechanic (it can run a bit away from the lore ) .
First PGi started the game with wrong foot - Inner Sphere has multiple manufacturers for every single weapon - the clans on other hand don't - It was much better for the game balance if the weapon stayed at 10 seconds damage rate - multiple manufactures different stats at the same weapon and still has its 10sec DPS and heat level .The battlemechs has limited customisation -> every single twich of the weapon systems leads to charge of money and time lock ( time lock of the mech if you deside to exchange your ac/20 for G-rifle can take 24 hours (mech is not usable at that time ) , but if you decide to exchange your Pontiac 100 for for Devastator it will take 5min lockdown of the mech (also that should be one of the pillars for RnR system ( sadly gone and kill huge aspect of the game ) where depend of your house you will have discount of house manufactured ammonitions and mechs (repairs too ) .

Bttlemechs and house fractions - i still think that best way was - short amount common mechs available everysingle IS player , but the faction mech limited only with loyality points - If you wish Cataphract you need to be Marik or verry expensive for Liao !

The Clans - as i mentioned before dont have such huge differents so they are limmited by their choice only by the different weapon systems . The Omny mechs - locked internals , but free and instant weapon swaps - you still need to limit the customistaion at some way - omni pods - with limited weight size i think is the best solution .

Omni-mechs -> the Clan players start with Battlemechs and only with honnor system (like the loyality for IS ) you can gain Omni-mechs .

At the end we have good trade off for both sides in advantages and shortcomings . that could balance the game only if PGI listened when it was proposed almost 2 years ago , now that system is a dream.

P.S.

Pht, on 08 September 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

There's another way to make it work without emasculating the tech and thus showing that you just don't care about the setting as it actually is.

Simply limit the number of clan mechs to 1 clan for every 2 IS mechs. Also, set the servers that way, so the 2:1 exists in each individual drop - obviously in some of the CW matches, this rule could be lifted.

Maybe i am wrong but you can see it even now that 2:1 system will not work . How many Cataphracts you see in the game and how many Dragons , same goes for Victors and Awesomes , you can go and easily see there is only few mechs are in main use .

Edited by daneiel varna, 16 September 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[CyclonerM]

ChallengerCC, on 16 September 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

I would say **** on the MW rules and make a balanced game with pros and cons of both factions.
The rules dont even yet get observed. Stay with storry and names but **** on the tabletop rules this game is not a tabletop. Same for the laser system, why so complicated? Make it like it is in reality. 1. Lase, 2. Lock the laser 3. Shoot Rocket 4. Hit the lase with rockets.
Not holding a lock with a laser thats stupid. The same with the weapon ranges.
I know a lot will say, i am a heretic. Old is old and new is new. Stick with old ****** rules that are historicly grown is stupid in my opinion. Hold only the core features, storry, mechs etc.and dont build a crude game with a crude gameplay.

I simply do not see any reason to change the laser mechanics, they could be strange but make sense,they are different from point & shoot ballistic in this way. And yes,i know this is not a tabletop game, and i would like to have a balanced game, but i think that some of the lore & TT rules can help achieving this balance. But PGI really started with the wrong foot..

[Pht]

daneiel varna, on 16 September 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

Maybe i am wrong but you can see it even now that 2:1 system will not work . How many Cataphracts you see in the game and how many Dragons , same goes for Victors and Awesomes , you can go and easily see there is only few mechs are in main use .

Your conclusion isn't supported by what you've posted.

I also didn't mean that the 2:1 ratio would, in and of itself, fix the problem you're addressing.

Also, the way things currently are isn't the same as the way it would be for the clan tech/players if they actually implemented the in-lore factors I posted earlier in the thread. As I already stated; there would need to be an actual limit on how many clan mechs (and tech) that would be released into the game when the clans initially show up. There would be other factors that would work beyond that time as the clan tech becomes (somewhat) more available for non-clan players.

I could also see the clanners possibly doing sometihng like starting out in the relatively 'lower tech' clan mechs and actually having to fight trials of position/posession to get a hold of the more desireable mechs.

[Commander Kobold]

The Devs already said they're going to ~balance~ the clans they'll do it however they want to do it [my guess coming from the podcast is they're going to nerf clan tech which doesn't really bother me at all]

[CyclonerM]

They would not probably need to nerf Clan tech in such massive way if they implement Omnimechs with fixed components,especially since Inner Sphere battlemechs are already far from canon and fully customizable.
Players want to customize their 'Mechs, their ammo location, their engine and their armor. If they cannot do so, many players could choose customizable 'Mechs rather than fixed 'Mechs with better weapons and more free hardpoints. Remember that often canon variants do not work well in a real-time game.

[Commander Kobold]

CyclonerM, on 17 September 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

They would not probably need to nerf Clan tech in such massive way if they implement Omnimechs with fixed components,especially since Inner Sphere battlemechs are already far from canon and fully customizable.
Players want to customize their 'Mechs, their ammo location, their engine and their armor. If they cannot do so, many players could choose customizable 'Mechs rather than fixed 'Mechs with better weapons and more free hardpoints. Remember that often canon variants do not work well in a real-time game.

Clan mechs will most likely be the same as the IS mechs with some Omni hardpoints maybe

[CyclonerM]

Omni 13, on 17 September 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

Clan mechs will most likely be the same as the IS mechs with some Omni hardpoints maybe

Will this be a wise choice? only time will show it.

[Daneiel]

Pht, on 17 September 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Your conclusion isn't supported by what you've posted.

I also didn't mean that the 2:1 ratio would, in and of itself, fix the problem you're addressing.

Also, the way things currently are isn't the same as the way it would be for the clan tech/players if they actually implemented the in-lore factors I posted earlier in the thread. As I already stated; there would need to be an actual limit on how many clan mechs (and tech) that would be released into the game when the clans initially show up. There would be other factors that would work beyond that time as the clan tech becomes (somewhat) more available for non-clan players.

I could also see the clanners possibly doing sometihng like starting out in the relatively 'lower tech' clan mechs and actually having to fight trials of position/posession to get a hold of the more desireable mechs.

I respect your opinion , but probably i didn't manage to explain myself clear enough - What i mean is that you don't need game floaded with chasis to atract players to stay at IS , because with the current game mechanic only few chasis are viable in competitive game way .

The trial system work well in Clans leaded by community , but its realy hard to be implemented in techinical aspect , so you need a simple system which can work for the both sides with simple changes .Second the "lower tech system" is the exactly what i am talking - starting with second line old battlemechs -> gaining honnor and unlocking better and better tech level (no i don't whant to see a terrible grind style , a small grind to prove yourself yes ).

[CyclonerM]

daneiel varna, on 17 September 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

The trial system work well in Clans leaded by community , but its realy hard to be implemented in techinical aspect , so you need a simple system which can work for the both sides with simple changes .Second the "lower tech system" is the exactly what i am talking - starting with second line old battlemechs -> gaining honnor and unlocking better and better tech level (no i don't whant to see a terrible grind style , a small grind to prove yourself yes ).

I definitely agree. I was thinking about a honor grinding system,too.

And about the Trials.. that is why we need private lobbies, and PGI will be happy to give it us, they are just waiting to finalize the details about how to monetize it

[Pht]

daneiel varna, on 17 September 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

I respect your opinion , but probably i didn't manage to explain myself clear enough - What i mean is that you don't need game floaded with chasis to atract players to stay at IS , because with the current game mechanic only few chasis are viable in competitive game way .

Flooded?

I think we are a bit crosswise.

I mean that, in global/overall terms, for every 2 IS mechs in the overall game, there should be 1 clan mech; and that in most games, there should be 2 is Mechs to 1 Clan mech, as a general rule of thumb which could obviously be broken in some situations (where the BT lore demands the clanners have a numbers advantage, for example, in a CW event).

Quote

The trial system work well in Clans leaded by community , but its realy hard to be implemented in techinical aspect , so you need a simple system which can work for the both sides with simple changes .Second the "lower tech system" is the exactly what i am talking - starting with second line old battlemechs -> gaining honnor and unlocking better and better tech level (no i don't whant to see a terrible grind style , a small grind to prove yourself yes ).

It's not that complex. Have a series of fights; possibly the best 2 out of 3, as a trial of position to go a step up the clan 'mech "ladder" of desireability. It's just a couple of if:than conditional switches hooked into the mechlab on the back end.

I'm just wishing we'd se someone use the reasons from the lore that hold certain factions in check.

Imagine if the lyrans weren't saddled with social generals... capellans with an inferiority complex and communism... fedsuns with enough transports ... tarians not phobic of fedsuns ... fwl factions that could work together ... etc, etc, etc.

There are restricting factors beyond having to quash the tech advantages down to the level of being just a little bit more desireable.

[Daneiel]

No No Pht you still didn't understand me - you don't need to put in the game many new chassis when previous ones are not performing competitive to the rival chassis !!!! We need properly working ROLE for the mechs not that arcade like - all lights need to be scouts and everything like that .First PGI need to bring back the proper place of the old ones before introduse new ones , for the omni-mechs is a bit easy , but the Battlemechs are the problem - they lack individuality -> what is the first thing coming in you mind when you hear HBK-4G ??? - my first thought is AC/20 , thats hurt - its a pure juggernaut - every single pilot foolish enough to go in close range will scream , but what we have now - a bunch hard points and no personality in these mechs .

Edited by daneiel varna, 17 September 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[SethAbercromby]

I think the biggest problem here really are the lack of sized hardpoints like in MW4:Mercs. A lot of balancing issues are caused by the non-restrictive hardpoints. In MW4, a LRM90 Catapult was technically impossible because there was no way you're gonna fit 3 LRM15 into one launcher because the hardpoint had only a limited capacity and it wouldn't even be that hard to add a size restriction into the current loadout system and would only require minor tweaks in the interface and especially with clan tech that will become important to implement since a Mad Cat Mk II was able to mount multiple Machine Gun arrays right below its cockpit but because the hardpoint was restricted to a size 1 ballistic weapon, it was impossible to add anything larger than a machine gun (as far as I remember the only size 1 ballistic weapon in the game). Same goes for the two arm hardpoints. You wanna fit an ER PPC in there? Good luck finding anything to fit in whatever space is left. Limited hardpoint size was a very clever and engaging way that added another layer of planning to the customization of a 'Mech and never made Clan tech too overpowered. I manly played the Mad Cat Mk II because it looked cool and could mount a very varied multi-purpose arsenal (shoulder-mounted LRM launchers for the win). i also remember the Marauder to be one of the few 'mech that could actually fit a Gauss Rifle which to me was something like the holy grail of 'Mech warfare. Now every puny centurion can mount one (hell I had mounted one on my Yen Lo Wang myself before switching to dual AC5s which is probably just as silly).

[Pht]

daneiel varna, on 17 September 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

No No Pht you still didn't understand me - you don't need to put in the game many new chassis...

I'm not saying they need to add many new chassis.

I'm saying that when they releas the clan mechs, there should actually be 1 clan mech for every 2 IS mechs.