51 replies to this topic

[Fut]

MustrumRidcully, on 08 September 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Armor isn't useless. Armor distribution is bad, however ,and doesn't fit to a game where hit locations are not rolled with 2d6 but determined by your ability to aim the mouse at the right spot and press the fire trigger at the right time, while possibly being under fire yourself or under time pressure. (Yes, my friends, mouse aiming requires skill, as presposterous as this may sound to some - if you're under time pressure, even simple stuff can go wrong.)

It all comes down to Hitbox Size.
With how precise people can aim, it doesn't make sense to have a hitbox that covers 1/3rd of the Mech. It's simply too easy for people to place multiple shots onto the exact same location.
The hitboxes need to be reduced drastically. The CT on a Mech should be 3 separate hitboxes on it's own.

[Riptor]

Just combine left right and center torso together armor and internal wise and make engine crits work as they should be. It would buff XL engines somewhat but the buggers are expensive for a reason.

It makes no sense anyways to have a left right and center torso region for a real time mech game anyways. Anyone ever saw a tank that could function after a third of its main body got completly destroyed?

Or heck even a robot?

Edited by Riptor, 09 September 2013 - 05:34 AM.

[psihius]

I think mechs need some armor shifting, because when a side torso has like 1.5 times the arm armor - it's just plain stupid. Some mechs have huge torsos and small CT, but they have less armor than a CT.

Although right now people just roll in one happy 12 person ball and that just makes the first mechs to show up to die almost instantly. There is no reason to spread out and engage in smaller groups.

[Jam the Bam]

So....please tell me how macros help pinpoint alphas?

[kapusta11]

-Lower armor values on all mechs with small hitboxes
-Increase all armor by 50%
-???
-PROFIT

Seriously, right now assaults are nearly restricted to use STD engines because of its enormous side torsos, because of that they have the same effective tonnage as heavy mechs.

[DaZur]

kapusta11, on 09 September 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Seriously, right now assaults are nearly restricted to use STD engines because of its enormous side torsos, because of that they have the same effective tonnage as heavy mechs.

Really? You want to take the mechs that already are the dominant weapon platforms, provide them access to XL and mitigate any downside for mounting them?

Something tells me you didn't think that one through...

[Disapirro]

Unspeakable Cuteness, on 08 September 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

...I spent well over 3 hours enjoying myself...

Ewww, please stop enjoying yourself. It makes me very uncomfortable.

[Riptor]

DaZur, on 09 September 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

Really? You want to take the mechs that already are the dominant weapon platforms, provide them access to XL and mitigate any downside for mounting them?

Something tells me you didn't think that one through...

Sure...

Didnt you know? Assault mechs are the "endgame content" now... so why shouldnt they be the most powerfull? After all they are the most expensive...

Right PGI?

[DaZur]

Riptor, on 09 September 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

Didn't you know? Assault mechs are the "endgame content" now... so why shouldn't they be the most powerful After all they are the most expensive...

Yup... a wonderful meta propagated by lazy pilots who choose the path of least resistance versus taking any sort of pride in learning how to maximize the potential of anything other than the top-tier FOTM.

But... I'm on and Island within an Island.

[Galenit]

Hexenhammer, on 08 September 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

In short Battletech has 10 second turns. MWO does damage twice as fast but its heat sinks still operate at table top values. And that is a reason why the game has so many balancing issues other than the fact its MechWarrior and MW has never been balanced.

0,5 sec is 20 times the damage
1,5 sec is 6,66 times the damage
4 sec is 2,5 times the damage

Pinpointdamage makes our damage nearly 8 times the battletech values if you target one part.
Cooldowns makes it 2,5 to 20 times

We have 20 to 160 times the damage output but only 2x armor.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Hey, I don't mind the flames. I'm flame-proof from over two decades on the net and being an avid gamer. What I'd like to establish is that I deserve them sometimes because I create provocative threads about REAL issues, but I bring those issues up because I want to see the game as a whole flourish. PGI is always on the cusp of greatness with MWO, and they're definitely scratching an itch we as mech fans have needed. It is also very frustrating to watch them bend and twist this game into a mish-mash of corrupt MMO and FPS garbage. I'd like to thank those who are proving their own personal input to continue the conversation and debate while reminding those who'd rather attack the posters than the subject matter.... it's not constructive. Have a good afternoon.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Btw I'm glad I confused some of you with the macro comment because it shows how narrow focused players are these days who can't grasp the bigger picture. (typical military types to be locked into tunnel vision, but thank you for your service regardless) The bigger picture is exactly this.... Macros exasperate the disparity of armor on mechs. Since the game is balanced around being able to apply damage to any hitbox under the duress of hit detection and lag, the game is balanced around applying the maximum amount of damage in the least time possible to a precise location. On top of that when macros exploit that balancing mechanic which was intended to give all players across the world competitive chance regardless of their rigs or pings, the ones with genuinely low latency taking advantage of such a mechanic will shred the average player. You know, the bread and butter of MWO. Now that participation has plummeted, the issue is being thrust into the public eye due to overexposure, thus thrust onto the forums for debate. It's a no-win situation for PGI unless they make mechs more durable, because overpowered weapons being exploited by macros just cheese off the tryhards when they feel their advantage is being taken away, where as if armor is gently nudged in a more positive direction matches will last longer, brawling might actually happen, and everybody can enjoy the game for what it is.... Slow stompy mechs who pound each other, rather than the grotesque abortion of counterstrike that MWO has evolved into. Thank you.

Edited by lockwoodx, 09 September 2013 - 10:14 AM.

[Almond Brown]

lockwoodx, on 08 September 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Some mechs are at a greater disadvantage than others, and macro spammers who abuse the game vs all mechs, abuse them even more due to that disadvantage. I'm sorry you misunderstood the statement.

Could you post the "code" or a Link to any Macro that has found a way around the Weapon Cool Downs in the game please.

[Vodrin Thales]

lockwoodx, on 08 September 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Because the game has been balanced around being able to do maximum damage to the smallest hitbox possible. That means the larger your hitbox is, the less armor matters when everything sticks to it like glue. I long for the day macro spammers can't abuse mechs who are extremely disadvantaged based on their hitbox, and when armor actually protects you more than 3 alphas.

If armor doesn't matter in MWO shouldn't we see most of the more competitive players dropping well below max armor to pack on more weapons and ammo?

Yet what we really see is near max armor (except for leg armor on heavier mechs) all the way around. Kind of argues that armor is not at all useless. You can argue that damage comes in much too quickly in general, and that the game is much to unforgiving if you make a mistake in positioning/maneuvering. But arguing that armor is useless just makes you sound like you don't know what you are talking about. Furthermore "abuse" of macros is not a significant problem. I never use macros and do not feel like I am disadvantaged against a player who does.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Almond Brown, on 09 September 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

Could you post the "code" or a Link to any Macro that has found a way around the Weapon Cool Downs in the game please.

Find it yourself, I'm not an exploiter.

Vodrin Thales, on 09 September 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

If armor doesn't matter in MWO shouldn't we see most of the more competitive players dropping well below max armor to pack on more weapons and ammo?

Yet what we really see is near max armor (except for leg armor on heavier mechs) all the way around. Kind of argues that armor is not at all useless.

Thank you for "supporting" my point. When near-max armor is acting like tissue, there's a problem. According to you, everyone should be well protected because "they" all use near-max armor yet it is not the case. So sorry, try again son.

Edited by lockwoodx, 09 September 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[Almond Brown]

PappySmurf, on 08 September 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

I finally came to the conclusion the devs are just Stupedos and don't know a dammm thing about MechWarrior-Battletech-or tabletop. Armor does not work period so you could just save the tonnage by not putting any on the mechs. Weapons are so overpowered your lucky to start a match make initial contact and live more than 60 seconds. I just got to the point I don't want to play unless its to see what the new patch has to offer but im always disappointed after installing the latest patch and its the same old crapp. Squishy mechs made of paper and light you cant kill and LRM volleys you cant outrun because the mechs handle like crapp and maneuver like shitt. P.S if I was to rate MWO's gameplay it would be a 2 on a scale of 1-10.

LOL! And I would rate your **** poor Rant a sad 0/10 and add a pinch of BS to boot.

If you suck at MWO, why not just admit it. I having gotten 5 Kills, 7 assists and various other bonuses, and survived more than 60 seconds while doing so. It is you that is bad, not MWO.

P.S. For the record, I was driving a BlackJack that match and our PUG won 12-9 I think. MWO is a blast when you play with TEAM in mind, especially in a PUG, and not just your own selfish self.

Edited by Almond Brown, 09 September 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Almond Brown, on 09 September 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

P.S. For the record, I was driving a BlackJack that match and our PUG won 12-9 I think. MWO is a blast when you play with TEAM in mind, especially in a PUG, and not just your own selfish self.

Ironically I always do amazing in my BJ-1 but that's because it's one of those perfectly designed mechs with the perfect hitbox to speed ratio. Admitting that doesn't help my "mediums are useless now" thread but I'm a bit too honest for my own good. Enjoy the bluntness.

[Khobai]

Quote

It all comes down to Hitbox Size.
With how precise people can aim, it doesn't make sense to have a hitbox that covers 1/3rd of the Mech. It's simply too easy for people to place multiple shots onto the exact same location.
The hitboxes need to be reduced drastically. The CT on a Mech should be 3 separate hitboxes on it's own.

Makes perfect sense. But if a hit box is 1/4th the surface area of the mech it should have 1/4th the total armor of the mech as well.

[Almond Brown]

lockwoodx, on 09 September 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

Ironically I always do amazing in my BJ-1 but that's because it's one of those perfectly designed mechs with the perfect hitbox to speed ratio. Admitting that doesn't help my "mediums are useless now" thread but I'm a bit too honest for my own good. Enjoy the bluntness.

But that doesn't add any more to the already measly 9.5625t maximum available armor versus the 19.2t available to an Assault Mech.

Edited by Almond Brown, 09 September 2013 - 10:40 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Almond Brown, on 09 September 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

But that doesn't add any more to the already measly 9.5625t maximum available armor versus the 19.2t available to an Assault Mech.

Armor currently doesn't matter so your point is still moot like your previous posts. Cherry picking mine and avoiding the big bad wall of text containing the truth I just posted to me is like swatting another spider. Trivial.