27 replies to this topic

[MadCat02]

For everyone who says that gause just requirs getting use to .

WTF are you talking about ?

I don't care how good you are . You misstime gause once and you will get confused .

If i am in the middle of fight and i didn't get in that 1.5 second window i am screwed cuz now my timing is off .

Evertime i use another build i try to charge my ac20 .

Gause mecahnic is more likely to mess with your reflexes to say the least .

I will not even attempt to put gause on atlas or Viktor . Their low arms is a pain to deal with as it is , let alone time this contruption .

First of all 1.5 second window is BS ! As soon as you look over the cliff someone shoots 2 ERPPC in your face.

Charging gause before hand is a double-edged sword and it backfires 50% of the time .

2 ER PPC cost 25% of the heat scale (21 double heatsink stalker with 2Large and 2 med lasers) for 14 tons instead of 19 and do 20 damage at longer range . Give me one good reason to use Gause over PPC .

There is no reason to run more than 2 PPC or ER PPC now . Heavy and Assault mechs are the only mechs who should mount ppc to begin with so you won't ahev a problem if u run 16+ heatsinks
..............................................................

Change gause to where it was

Or make that window 2.5 seconds

I am not using this piece of trash again

Edited by MadCat02, 11 September 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[Syllogy]

MadCat02, on 11 September 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

2 ER PPC cost 25% of the heat scale for 14 tons instead of 19 and do 20 damage at longer range . Give me one good reason to use Gause over PPC .

Gauss vs. PPC

• 15 Damage vs. 10
  
• No minimum range
  
• 1980m Max Range vs. 1080 Max Range
  
• 2000m/s vs. 1500m/s.
  
• No Heat vs. 10 Heat.

Gauss vs. 2x ERPPC

• 1980 Max Range vs. 1620 Max Range
  
• 2000m/s vs. 1500m/s
  
• No Heat vs. 30 Heat (50%-75% Heat Generation) Per Shot

For reference: Heat Cap = 30 (Base) + Engine Heatsink Rating (1 for SHS, 2 for DHS) + Outside Engine Heatsink Rating (1 for SHS, 1.4 for DHS)

Example: 10 DHS in Engine + 6 Outside Engine:

30+20+(6*1.4)= 58.40

ERPPC Heat Generation = 15 / 58.40 = 25.7% per ERPPC

Edited by Syllogy, 11 September 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Umm. 2 ERPPCs are 50% of the heat scale in some mechs, actually. Not 25%. 40-50% usually.

In tabletop they were 100%.

[MadCat02]

Mister Blastman, on 11 September 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Umm. 2 ERPPCs are 50% of the heat scale in some mechs, actually. Not 25%. 40-50% usually.

In tabletop they were 100%.

21 heatsink stalker , 2large lasers , 2 med lasers , 2ERPCC . Does not overheat without 3 weapon alpha strikes

Syllogy, on 11 September 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Gauss vs. PPC

• 15 Damage vs. 10
  
• No minimum range
  
• 1980m Max Range vs. 1080 Max Range
  
• 2000m/s vs. 1500m/s.
  
• No Heat vs. 10 Heat.

Gauss vs. 2x ERPPC

• 1980 Max Range vs. 1620 Max Range
  
• 2000m/s vs. 1500m/s
  
• No Heat vs. 30 Heat (50%-75% Heat Generation) Per Shot

For reference: Heat Cap = 30 (Base) + Engine Heatsink Rating (1 for SHS, 2 for DHS) + Outside Engine Heatsink Rating (1 for SHS, 1.4 for DHS)





Example: 10 DHS in Engine + 6 Outside Engine:

30+20+(6*1.4)= 58.40

ERPPC Heat Generation = 15 / 58.40 = 25.7% per ERPPC

With only 2 ERPPC heat is not an issues ok ! Unless you trolling and use it on medium mech

As for PPC i dnk how you could overheat with them 8.5 heat please . When is 80 meters has ever been an issue ?

Do you really have problem with mechs standing that close to you ?

Edited by MadCat02, 11 September 2013 - 07:56 AM.

[Barantor]

Gauss is now a sniper rifle, sorry.

[oldradagast]

I agree with the original poster - the loony charge-up mechanic is not intuitive and will mess with your timing. Unfortunately, since "ghost-heat," crazy "creative" solutions are now the new way to "improve balance," so I don't see this being fixed anytime soon.

[Syllogy]

MadCat02, on 11 September 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

21 heatsink stalker , 2large lasers , 2 med lasers , 2ERPCC . Does not overheat without 3 weapon alpha strikes

With only 2 ERPPC heat is not an issues ok ! Unless you trolling and use it on medium mech

As for PPC i dnk how you could overheat with them 8.5 heat please . When is 80 meters has ever been an issue ?

Do you really have problem with mechs standing that close to you ?

PPC is at 10 Heat, Minimum Range is 90 Meters. It gets to be an issue when you are facing more experienced pilots.

Assuming you have Mastered the Stalker Chassis, the build you described has:

• Heat Capacity of 78.48
  
• Heat Dissipation of 4.07 Heat per Second
  
• 1 Alpha Strike = 58.6% Heat Generated
  
• Dissipates 17.30 Heat (or 22%) between Alpha Strikes
  
• 58.6%-22% = 36.6% before firing Alpha Strike #2
  
• 36.6% + 58.6% = 95.2% - 22% = 73.2% before firing Alpha Strike #3
  
• 73.2% + 58.6% = 131.8% - You overheat and shut down for 6.36 seconds

Furthermore, you can effectively do nothing if you are approaching the heat cap.

A mech with a Gauss Rifle would be able to continue firing while waiting to cool down.

Edited by Syllogy, 11 September 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[MadCat02]

how do u explain all the dead catapults and jagermechs at 60% win rate elo

they are the only 2 mechs that can utilize new gause

cheesy builds that only bring damage vs bad players

Edited by MadCat02, 11 September 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[Shadowsword8]

Mister Blastman, on 11 September 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Umm. 2 ERPPCs are 50% of the heat scale in some mechs, actually. Not 25%. 40-50% usually.

In tabletop they were 100%.

The math behind the numbers is so different that trying to compare is fairly pointless.

Want an example? In TT, the Clan HellStar, with it's 30 DHS and 4 Clan PPC. 60 heat generated with all 4 weapons, but the 60 heat removed by the DHS would be applied before the heat table. As a result, it could fire all of it's weapons every turn all day long without any heat penalty.

In MWO, try to fire 3 ERPPC at the same time and see how fast you melt.

[xenoglyph]

You're really going to hate the new weapon mechanic coming, then. I heard that SRMs are getting buffed to proper damage levels, but the missiles don't auto arm. Instead you'll have to sing a random Johnny Cash lyric into your comms while the missiles are in flight in order to arm them.

[Mechteric]

gauss aren't meant for up close combat anyway, so its not so bad what they did actually. Only thing I would request is a longer window to fire, because 1.25 seconds goes really quickly when you're trying to line up a good shoot. 2-2.5 seconds should be about right.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I avoided the whole Gauss + PPC meta, so have no horse in that race.

Overall I don't think the changes weren't too bad to the Gauss, the trade off of a delay mechanic is compensated for by the ballistic speed. However the DPS nerf really hurts. That .75 delay (or worse if you don't use a macro) drops the weapon's DPS down to 3.16 making it both the heaviest and lowest DPS ballistic weapon (and the most fragile).

I have also found it very difficlut to use with other weapons. Originally I though I would pair it with an ER Large Laser, knowing that I could keep both on the same weapon group and just release the trigger when the ERLL beam ended. However in practice it didn't work because the ERLL cooldown was significantly faster.

I think my second biggest complaint about this weapon is it (like the UAC5) strongly favors macro users, which a significant failing in design (almost as bad as forcing group play and not including voip).

I think the cooldown needs to be reduced to account for the fire delay, and I would like to see a more skill based sniper mechanic rather than one that can be circumvented with a macro.
Maybe something like a missle lock mechanic with a targeting laser pointer. However the velocity may need to be increased since leading will be difficult.

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 11 September 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[Stinkeye]

I hate the new gauss....if I am aiming at a moving target I have to click wait..and release. If I do it too early nothing happens, start again, targets gone or release too late same thing happens. Then I start staring at the loadout and look back to shoot and usually miss. Before I would track my target aim ahead of it and time out a shot. The click hold and release is cumbersome and the targeting window is way too small. I would love to see my accuracy since the "fix", no I wouldn't it would make me sad :*(
My most played mech by a mile is my ILYA dual gauss. I placed in the top five and top ten in tournaments with it now there is really no really comfortable build for it, it is made for dual gauss. We can't equip dual AC20s and are now greatly inferior to a Jagger (more weight but way less weapon slots).
"Fixing" one weapon to make it completely different from all others is ridiculous. There has got to be a better way at least give us 2 seconds on the charge or put a HUD warning up or hell even a red light that flicks on.

[Mister Blastman]

Shadowsword8, on 11 September 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

The math behind the numbers is so different that trying to compare is fairly pointless.

Want an example? In TT, the Clan HellStar, with it's 30 DHS and 4 Clan PPC. 60 heat generated with all 4 weapons, but the 60 heat removed by the DHS would be applied before the heat table. As a result, it could fire all of it's weapons every turn all day long without any heat penalty.

In MWO, try to fire 3 ERPPC at the same time and see how fast you melt.

I don't think you understand how the heat system works in MWO.

Engine DHS = 2.0 dissipation
External DHS = 1.4 dissipation

Knowing that...

TT turn = 10 seconds

In Tabletop you fire once every 10 seconds.
In MWO you fire multiple times every 10 seconds.

HOWEVER

Heatsinks dissipate over a 10 second interval in MWO.

For example... I have 20 DHS total on a mech, 10 in Engine, 10 external.
So...

10 x 2.0 = 20
10 x 1.4 = 14
20 + 14 = 34
34 / 10 seconds = 3.4 pts of heat dissipation a second.

Add in the bonuses for cool run and elite and take that 3.4 and multiply it by 15% for a total of 3.91 pts of dissipation a second.

NOW, knowing that... with 20 DHS you get 3.91 pts a second vs in TT you would get 4.0. However, you fire once a turn.
If in your example you had 30...
In MWO that'd be equivalent to 48 pts a turn or 4.8 pts a second... or with 15%, 5.52 pts a second vs. in TT 6.0 pts a second. We're getting stiffed with the external sinks being at 1.4.

If you tried building that mech in MWO and fired once every 10 seconds, you STILL would not be heat neutral due to the porked external DHS.

So until PGI fixes that, comparisons are skewed. Even if the numbers were identical, the only way you'd have a true heat neutral mech is if you fired once every 10 seconds. Try getting everyone else in the game to agree to that rule.

[Corpsecandle]

xenoglyph, on 11 September 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

You're really going to hate the new weapon mechanic coming, then. I heard that SRMs are getting buffed to proper damage levels, but the missiles don't auto arm. Instead you'll have to sing a random Johnny Cash lyric into your comms while the missiles are in flight in order to arm them.

hmmm, singing might be difficult for me...did they say if yelling or croaking would also arm them, or maybe hitting the lyrics but not the note giving some sort of partial arming...I can yell "ring of fire" until I'm hoarse.

[BlueVisionWarrior Online]

I cut the cheese on the regular.

I'm BlueVisionWarrior: Online and I approve this thread title

[Roughneck45]

I don't mind the changes, I just wish the charge up time was included in the recycle time. The hit it took to its DPS is the real killer. It is still a good weapon though.

[Devils Advocate]

Welcome to the forums please feel free to use the eyes built into your head to see that there are more than 10 other threads in this forum dealing with the new gauss rifle changes already and add your comments into one of those. Making a new thread when there are already so many demonstrates that you acted out of frustration and anger rather than using your brain to think up an excuse as to why the world needed one more post of somebody being a baby.

Also if two ERPPCs is 25% of the heatscale of a 21 DHS stalker why is it 40% of the heatscale of a 23 DHS awesome? I think your numbers might be skewed.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Stinkeye, on 11 September 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

I hate the new gauss....if I am aiming at a moving target I have to click wait..and release. If I do it too early nothing happens, start again, targets gone or release too late same thing happens. Then I start staring at the loadout and look back to shoot and usually miss...
"Fixing" one weapon to make it completely different from all others is ridiculous. There has got to be a better way at least give us 2 seconds on the charge or put a HUD warning up or hell even a red light that flicks on.

Around the targeting reticle you will see 6 squares, these represent your 6 weapon groups. If you Gauss Rifle is weapon group 1, it is represented by the upper left box (10 o'clock). When your Gauss is idle it will be yellow, if you hold your fire button the box will turn green when it is ready to shoot, and once you have fired the box will turn red, until the cooldown completes.

I found it much easier to watch the the box next to reticle as it allowed me to keep my eye on the target while waiting for the green light.

Additionally the upgrades to the "Advanced Zoom" module are amazing. It offers good fidelity and makes targeting at long range much easier. expeically when combined with BAP and Sensor Range. And at 1000m it is almost like having ECM since most players don't have BAP, and LRMs can't reach that far. Plus your gauss does [15 - (15 x (Range - 660)/1260)]= 11 Damage at 1000m.

[TOGSolid]

Quote

I don't care how good you are . You misstime gause once and you will get confused .

Protip: You don't speak for everyone here. I've been running the Gauss and doing completely fine with it as are all the guys in the Oosiks. It's better than it was before the patch and the charge up time takes like two shots to get used to unless you're just really really bad.

The only alteration the Gauss needs at this point is for the charge up sound to be a bit louder but the ok to fire light on the reticle resolves any timing issues.

Edited by TOGSolid, 11 September 2013 - 12:01 PM.