51 replies to this topic

[OneEyed Jack]

Teufel Hunden 0351, on 10 September 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

I would also like to point out that if you have to rely on having dual AMS + ECM + having a fast mech in order to avoid or counter the LRM boating then there is a problem with that. To make this point I would like to say that it is equally stupid to say that you need to have ECM + Max armor + Fast mech in order to counter 6PPC 1Guass combos.

The point that has been made several times without your hyperbole is that you DO NOT need "dual AMS + ECM + having a fast mech". I, and many people do it without ECM, in slow mechs, and often without AMS. It's called cover and not walking straight into the missile boat across open ground. It's really not that hard if you have at least the brains of a turnip. There simply are not places that you have to go, excluding possible fringe cases, which you cannot approach with reasonable cover if you are willing to go somewhere other than a straight line. People do it all the time.
[Edit: Toned it down a little after reading your post immediately above. I get what you're saying about other weapons being nerfed, but you're still wrong in what you're saying about missiles, and the ridiculous hyperbole doesn't help your point.]

Ngamok, on 10 September 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

My 5xLRM10 Stalker 5M can pretty much keep it going and core you pretty fast if you are out in the open.

You can't keep up a chain that will cause the constant shake/smoke they are complaining about. 5xLRM5s have a pause, and they cycle faster. Not to mention, you are lowering your damage output for the reasons I already mentioned.

And you won't core me, because I won't be standing in the open. You might hit me with the first 1 or 2 before I get into cover, but the rest will splash against my cover. Say, for instance, a target is 4 seconds flight-time away. If you group fire, they have 4 seconds warning before getting smacked hard. If you chain-fire, they have 4 seconds warning of a little damage, 4.5 seconds warning for a little more damage, and so on. They have a full 6 seconds warning for the last of the damage. If they're still getting hit at the 6 second mark, it doesn't matter what you were shooting at them. They were effectively dead before they launched.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 10 September 2013 - 08:28 AM.

[Teufel Hunden 0351]

OneEyed Jack, on 10 September 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

I would like to point out that you are completely and utterly clueless about anything remotely in the same region as tactics, or even basic common sense. Not to mention reading comprehension. The point that has been made several times without your stupid hyperbole is that you DO NOT need "dual AMS + ECM + having a fast mech". I, and many people do it without ECM, in slow mechs, and often without AMS. It's called cover and not walking straight into the missile boat across open ground. It's really not that hard if you have at least the brains of a turnip. There simply are not places that you have to go, excluding possible fringe cases, which you cannot approach with reasonable cover if you are willing to go somewhere other than a straight line. People do it all the time. You can't keep up a chain that will cause the constant shake/smoke they are complaining about. 5xLRM5s have a pause, and they cycle faster. Not to mention, you are lowering your damage output for the reasons I already mentioned. And you won't core me, because I won't be standing in the open. You might hit me with the first 1 or 2 before I get into cover, but the rest will splash against my cover. Say, for instance, a target is 4 seconds flight-time away. If you group fire, they have 4 seconds warning before getting smacked hard. If you chain-fire, they have 4 seconds warning of a little damage, 4.5 seconds warning for a little more damage, and so on. They have a full 6 seconds warning for the last of the damage. If they're still getting hit at the 6 second mark, it doesn't matter what you were shooting at them. They were effectively dead before they launched.

I guess your just a moron that needs everything spelled out with special care so lets try...

Lets use Alpine Peak as the example:

You and your lance are behind one of the hills waiting to ambush / fight the enemy.
You and your lance are out of the line of sight of your enemy using something called terrain
A member of the other team spots you and your lance hiding out in your position
Half of the other team proceeds to LRM spam your lance from a distance of say 850
Oh wait because of phantom heat you and your lance have balanced loadouts with maybe a ppc er ppc and or ac2
All are weapons which can reach the LRM boats but do little damage per shot

choices
Poke your head out take a few shots
stay hidden and cower till your dead by lrm spam
try to move to a position where a scout cannot see you and or are out of LRM range
try to shoot the spotter who has ecm, tag and extended range modules etc.

Now this is only one small example of a scenerio with only a couple of choices listed and which I'm sure more than a couple of people have ran into. And with the being bounced around and not being able to see with all the smoke it makes that much easier to move to another position or to shoot the scout or even to try to shoot out the LRM mechs.

I am quite sure and confident I know alot more about tactics than you do. Also you completely missed what I was saying in the example of ACM ECM fast mech and should learn how to read properly and understand context before making stupid comments. Especially when your making reference to reading comprehension.

Now maps which have lots of cover ie terra therma, forest colony, canyon, there is very little if any trouble moving around and having options however if the only way you can win a match or get a kill is to LRM spam people to death than you shouldn't ***** that all the other weapons in the game are overpowered nor should you praise all the phantom heat bs like the majority of LRM boat spammers.

If you need more reference to what I'm talking about please let me refer you to the UAC5 thread where people are complaining about getting hit with UAC5's and that they need to nerf them.

LET PEOPLE GEAR THEIR MECHS HOW THEY WISH AND STOP NERFING EVERYTHING WITH PHANTOM HEAT AND BS.

Now, if you can't understand that broken down that simply then I guess there just isn't any hope for you after all.

[Joseph Mallan]

Teufel Hunden 0351, on 10 September 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

I guess your just a moron that needs everything spelled out with special care so lets try...

Lets use Alpine Peak as the example:

You and your lance are behind one of the hills waiting to ambush / fight the enemy.
You and your lance are out of the line of sight of your enemy using something called terrain
A member of the other team spots you and your lance hiding out in your position
Half of the other team proceeds to LRM spam your lance from a distance of say 850
Oh wait because of phantom heat you and your lance have balanced loadouts with maybe a ppc er ppc and or ac2
All are weapons which can reach the LRM boats but do little damage per shot

Just a Point of contention. While on my tour in South Korea 2nd Bat 5th Mar/Div's tent city was 12 Miles from the DMZ (IIRC). But the North Korean Military could rain artillery on us with impunity (16 Mile range).

Now I understand this is a game, but LRMs are our game's present version of Artillery indirect fire. So being able to decimate a team that is pinned down within range is... reasonable to me if enough LRMs are present.

[OneEyed Jack]

Teufel Hunden 0351, on 10 September 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

blah, blah, stupid {Scrap}, blah, HODOR!, blah

OK, I give up. Tactics obviously don't work in your games, where you fight 4v12, half of the 12 being LRM boats terrain doesn't block LRMs and there's only one place to fight, one place to go and going around is impossible. Because you're such an obvious tactical smegging genius that you would have crushed them if it wasn't for those dastardly LRMs and their invisible spotters.

You see, in the games I play in, there's more than one way to go, we have roughly balanced numbers, and direct-fire weapons both fly faster and farther than missiles. Not to mention they don't require us stand there holding a lock, allowing us to pop out, shoot a missile boat in the face, and move back into cover before missiles can lock and cross the distance. Must be a different game.

[Teufel Hunden 0351]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 September 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Just a Point of contention. While on my tour in South Korea 2nd Bat 5th Mar/Div's tent city was 12 Miles from the DMZ (IIRC). But the North Korean Military could rain artillery on us with impunity (16 Mile range).

Now I understand this is a game, but LRMs are our game's present version of Artillery indirect fire. So being able to decimate a team that is pinned down within range is... reasonable to me if enough LRMs are present.

Yeah in the real world though like that situation you would have bunkers or foxholes etc plus you can fire indirect fire back but I was simply trying to make a point and made up a scenerio with only a couple of "choices". The point I was trying to make which I guess I've been doing a really bad job of is that by nerfing all the weapons they are limiting options like in the example I made up. Honestly LRM's might be the most balanced weapon in the game right now. The problem is and I saw a post about it under the UAC5 that when you nerf everything else a single weapon then appears to be overpowered. It is also my understanding most of the people who complained about point damage weapons and some of the other long range boating builds which resulted in all the nerfing were the LRM boat players which were being shreded.

All I wanted to do was put up an argument as to why I think that's BS and why they need to get rid of phantom heat and reset the weapons back to where they were at with perhaps some of tweaks they made which did improve some weapons. I would also however speculate by doing this you would end up with much more balance overall in the game because people would use varieties of different builds.

[Taemien]

Are you all seriously saying you can't avoid LRMs? I must be a god pilot in this game if there's this much contention on the subject. Please continue. Stroke the ego further.

[Ngamok]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 September 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Oh Please. I started off as an LRMBoat Captain. Those days are long gone. However I have used My Great Archer a few times and though my damage is way down from the glory days. My last time using them I wracked up 3 kills, 5 assists, and did 400+ damage. Gone? I doubt it. Also Almost every time I die... LRMs are in the mix of weapons that killed me.


Unless you are a 92 Year old man... You ain't my Dad

Calling a 48 YO man Boy... LOL really!!!

Old Man !

[Bront]

LRMs have so many counters, it's often your own fault if you're getting mauled by them. AMS is NOT optional for most mechs unless you enjoy being LRM fodder. The 6-7 on 1 scenario can be mitigated by team AMS coverage.

Edited by Bront, 10 September 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[Ace Selin]

Jestun, on 10 September 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Ace - focus fire from 6-7 mechs (in your example 6 lrm + 1 tag) will be fatal regardless of the weapoj.

6-7 vs. 1 is inherently unbalanced.

I agree 6/7 versus 1 is death, but with LRMs those 6 do not have to see you to hit you and you cannot return fire on them either, and that hiding spotter isn't always easy to stop. Its quite different to walking into opponents fields of direct fire. I can be out of direct sight of all enemies bar one and still get killed by a half dozen of them if they have LRMs. Sure I try to protect myself from this, but if used like that it is very powerful, especially with premade teams I've encountered using it. Just saying that needs to be considered.

Edited by Ace Selin, 12 September 2013 - 11:15 PM.

[TOGSolid]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 September 2013 - 03:26 AM, said:

This is Working as intended. I am not joking. It is exactly how it should work. You get lazed, The missiles find you and pound you to scrap. That IS working perfectly. We may not like it, but it's how it should work.

Teamwork is blatantly OP.

[Jestun]

You're getting beaten by pre-made lrm boat teams? O.o

[Kaspirikay]

lrms are pretty fine now