40 replies to this topic

[VariousPickles]

Most players would agree that the current implementations of the * Air Strike and * Artillery Strike modules are mostly useless.

Current Useful Aspects

• The only times I've ever felt that they helped me / my team, enough to justify taking up a module slot, is the relatively uncommon (perhaps once every 5-10 games) situation in pubs where at least three enemy mechs are sitting close together and not moving.
  
• To be effective, you have to carefully aim the Strike such that it pops underneath, or, preferably, slightly behind, the intended targets.

Current Unuseful Aspects

• The damage per-target is pitiful, even on a direct hit.
  
• Aside from the Improved * Strike modules, the only other enhancements, the * Strike Accuracy modules, do exactly the opposite of what would be useful: further concentrating the Strike makes it that much easier for the target(s) to get out of the way in time.

My (Humble) Suggested Changes

• Either double (at least) the damage per bomb/shell or double the radius and the number of bombs/shells.
  
• Replace the * Strike Accuracy modules with ones that allow you to better aim the Strikes. The implementation could take the form of:
  
  • Being able to plot/trigger the Strike on the battlegrid.
    
  • Pressing the button for the Strike makes you emit a TAG-like laser until the button is released. The Strike lands on the ground directly underneath the terminus of the beam (I don't have a good max range in mind).
    
  • Pressing the button for the Strikes overlays a hologram / target designator of the Strike's impact on the ground visible only to you. The designator is rendered on the ground directly beneath the farthest extend of your reticle (again, with a max range). Again, releasing the button triggers the Strike.

[Storm Khan]

The only other possible use of air/arty strike is to put the smoke marker in an obvious place to scare the enemy mechs to budge from where they are. This is kind of a waste of the air/arty strike tho'.

[VariousPickles]

Storm Khan, on 10 September 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

The only other possible use of air/arty strike is to put the smoke marker in an obvious place to scare the enemy mechs to budge from where they are. This is kind of a waste of the air/arty strike tho'.

Whenever I've tried to do this the only result, at least against smart players, has been that they strafe a bit sideways to get out of the way while continuing whatever engagement they were a part of.

A related use is trying to temporarily scare targets from crossing through a choke point (the ends of the bridge on River Colony come to mind). However, a smart player, with even a modicum of speed, will just walk through the Strike's smoke and manage to be out of the range of most, if not all, of the shells/bombs by the time they impact.

[The Boz]

Air Strike, Artillery Strike and Cool Shot will only become useful if they become permanent modules in the 2-6 million CB range, one use per game. The module slots are easily filled right now, it's about time it's shaken up.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Cool shot 9 by 9 is amazing? wtf?


And yes, Artillery and Air Strikes need a complete re-haul before they can even be deemed worthy.

[VariousPickles]

The Boz, on 10 September 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

Air Strike, Artillery Strike and Cool Shot will only become useful if they become permanent modules in the 2-6 million CB range, one use per game. The module slots are easily filled right now, it's about time it's shaken up.

In your idea, would the modules be equippable (i.e. take up a module slot)?

Also, in my opinion, the fact that Strikes and Cool Shots are consumables is fine - they serve as a nice sink for CB (I find the prices to be perfect, but then I do have a permanent Founder's bonus).

mwhighlander, on 10 September 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Cool shot 9 by 9 is amazing? wtf?

I completely agree. Its even lovlier with the Cool Boost upgrade (22.5 heat!).

[The Boz]

Yes, they would. As I pointed out, the "limited" module slots that are in the game now always go to the top three modules in the game. There needs to be some competition.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Personally I'd like to see artillery strike be an off map Arrow IV missile that hits like an AC20 to a single target. Otherwise I agree with the targeting laser idea.

Air strike should probably be either a bomb targeted on the ground or a strafing run that will hit your currently selected target so long as you maintain lock and they aren't behind cover.

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

This is now on the table. I'm starting to prototype some strategic strikes like Carpet bombing by multiple aircraft etc.

Designs only concern is if the planes fly that low and maybe slower, players will think they are shootable and complain because they will not be at this time.

Other stuff like EMP Strikes and Napalm Bombs I'll also try out.

Nothing is concrete design will still have to approve, but the system is already in place and flexible enough to allow a whole slew of different types of strategic strikes.

[FerrolupisXIII]

I'd like to see multi-use modules with a cool down. I.E. activate module to call in strike, wait X:XX for artillery/ aircraft to reload/ re-circle. call another strike when ready. rinse, repeat. it'd have to be pretty long cool down and 1 per mech. but then at least it would seem like using it was worth it to me.

about the only thing i find it useful for is to drop it on my own base when a light is capping. they usually want nothing to do with an arty strike on their heads. and that's if they notice (with the big cap zone building there it can be hard to see the flare)

[The Boz]

But please, above all else, please make them permanent multi-million cbill modules, and not consumables.

[Shlkt]

Just some extra data to think about, using the current improved arty strike stats:
* In my tests, damage dealt to a target standing in the center of the drop zone was 10 to 12 on average. That includes splash damage from all 10 shells.
* Damage appears to be distributed (probably evenly) to all locations that have line-of-sight to the point of impact. So a near miss might cause 1.15 damage to each arm, 1.15 damage to each leg, 1.15 damage to each torso, etc...
* The improved accuracy raises the average damage to 18 for a target at the center, but it's considerably more difficult to hit a moving target and you'll probably hit fewer targets overall.

The damage calculations above were performed using monte-carlo simulation with 10,000 trials and the stated weapon stats for improved artillery strike(10 shells x 10 damage each, 50m radius drop zone, 30m radius shell explosion w/ linear falloff).

Edited by Shlkt, 11 September 2013 - 09:45 AM.

[DEMAX51]

If the arty strike is designed to be an area-denial weapon, it needs to last much, much longer.

[Darius Deadeye]

More importantly! Make it look like it's NOT SPEARS BEING THROWN from the sky.

A little boom, a little 'splody, a little kickin' of the dust? Craters? AESTHETICS??

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Yes I see that this reply just kind of got out of hand with ideas but please read through, you may see something that you really like.


The EMP sounds like something I would really like to have, and some idea's for consideration.

- complete loss of all targeting and lock-on's for hopefully quite a while,
[dumb fire systems still works]

- no unit or Mech identification markers or info for duration of the EMP strike,
(maybe 4-5min's)
[considering the new CW battles may be in the time range of up to an hour]

- making identifying friend or foe a new level that will need to be taught.
[and would be similar to the EMP turning off your IFF HUD markings]
(this casts a new level to Mech colours and patterns and with CW, having the House colours would help, or the Merc camo skin to Id your friendly mechs.)

- Any weapon system that has energy capacitors or charging systems may be overloaded and fail to work till secondary systems come on line.
[brings a whole new meaning to having ballistic weapons on the field]

- sensor and stealth systems inoperable for same time period.

- Limit this weapon to only be usable with a Command Console mounted Mech.
[This gives that 3 ton item a use, finally]
(and on that note, make all "Strategic" asset weapons only usable from a Mech with the "Command" seat installed.)

And I'm sure you know the new engine can display "shock waves" as it radiates out from the blast.

Just some idea's I hope you bring to these new weapons.

Additional note; In current tech with standard Arty of 105 and 155mm HE rounds the direct impact area is about a 90 foot radius with kill radius to 300mtrs and the blast height can be up to 100mtrs high.
So what we have now would only be on the size of mortar rounds impacting. Although probably on the 60 to 80mm size but still too small for what it's being targeted at.
[the arty blast should/would need to clear the head of even the Atlas when it explodes. (big explosions) And possibly even knock down small Mech's, I know knock downs not back yet but we need that effect for this weapon.]

The Mention of a Napalm type weapon would sound great but brings many difficult engineering problems with it. Will it stick to the Mech's as the real thing is designed to do? How will the fire and smoke this system brings with it be handled in the engine? Environmental effects like wind, pressure, atmospheric composition, and mostly ground cover will all effect how that material reacts where applied. (will we be burning down forests and cities, not to mention the snow and ice maps.) Still it would make some nice eye candy but very difficult to simulate correctly.

If you are looking for a system that can be very useful on the battle field then please consider a multi-spectral smoke Arty deployment. (Multi-spectral smoke can not be seen through with thermal vision and disrupts targeting lasers) Deployed high and wide enough [50mtrsH x 300mtrsW] to mask Mech movement or fool the enemy into thinking you are moving somewhere you are not. And would need a linger time of at least 3-4mins before dispersing. Smoke can be used to cover your Mech's movement or fired in front of the enemy to block there sight/targeting and allow time for a rapid assault or flank. (without enemy fire)

Note for Thomas:
Carpet bombing was normally carried out from at least 5000 feet plus to avoid ground fire (mostly the dedicated AAA [Quad Ac2/Ac5 Mech's and ground vehicles]) and in this time line there are very precise munitions available, so no need to be close to the ground to launch guided bombs or area denial systems.

In keeping with this idea there is one weapon system that has all of the above mentioned warhead types available. The ARROW IV - introduced in 2600 (then lost tech) and reintroduced in 3044. (helm memory core)

Warhead types:
Arrow Homing Missile [for Tag or Narc targeting}
Cluster Arrow Missile [for carpet bombing]
FASCAM Missile [for minefield deployment]
Inferno-IV Missile [for napalm]
Smoke Missile [for spot or line deployment]

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 14 September 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

How about we don't make zero-tonnage-zero-slot items totally game changing?

[The Boz]

Lefty Lucy, on 12 September 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

How about we don't make zero-tonnage-zero-slot items totally game changing?

1. We already have those. They're called modules.
2. I want the consumables to stop being consumables and start being modules precisely because out-of-match economics should NOT influence the outcome of a match directly.

[SaJeel]

I like the idea of having it on a re spawn timer, so every 2, or 5 or 8 minutes your arty respawns. It needs either a damage or duration buff probably both. An idea to diversify it, could be to have the arty be slightly more powerful but last for a long time/cover a large area, and act as an area denial(a mech that sits on a base under an arty strike for the whole thing would be fairly close to death, but it should take like 5 seconds, or so), The air strike could be pinpoint high damage, the shells could even come in at an angle so taller targets could be hit twice.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Reference having Arty or similar weapons be "Game Changers", how they and where they are deployed is a game changer. All through out history those that had superior artillery would normally "take the field". And having to mount the Command Console (at 3 tons) to be able to employ these devices would be enough that a Command Mech now has a function.
(as that device was and has been pulled off of any mech it came installed on, due to lack of function. Looking at you Atlas D-DC)

Any asset or system that falls within the "Strategic level Weapon" category should only be available to selected Command Mech's. And I don't see any of them on the battle field right now. Not everyone gets to have these systems "On Call" so you won't see them employed all the time.
[Don't bring a Command Mech, no Strategic level available]

And that ties in with "role warfare" and pilot skills getting bonus's for tasks completed. Employ a Command Mech and use said devices and win a match gains additional xp or skill sets.

9erRed

[FerrolupisXIII]

I want to see Arrow IV in game, personally. give me my favorite thing to do! work with a light with a TAG or NARC system and put a volley on target. awwww yeahhh.

that asside, i think if Command Console was implemented i'd rather be able to drop artillery Via the map. or add function so that a tag being used for X seconds on a location broadcasts a "node" on the map, select node, fire artillery to hit where the tag is. gives more things for scouts do do. can you say "artillery spotter bonus?"