28 replies to this topic

[Delas Ting Usee]

I tried the Gauss - and yes, it takes some getting use to.
But that 'charge' time doesn't lend itself to firing at moving targets - no problems with stationary ones.
It's too much weight and with an average of 4 tons of ammo that's almost 19 tons in total invested for a dedicated sniper role.
And contrary to what most believe - there is room and an important role for snipers.
In organized 12 v 12 - I use snipers to great effect (I'm talking one or two at most) by robbing my opponents of momentum, by making them stay at the spot I want them to stay while my flankers move in etc.
PGI has touted this as a thinking man's game where tactics and teamwork are exalted.
It's currently not IMHO.
We now see the rise of Ultra AC5s (sometimes 2 or 3 of them on a mech - next to be nerf I bet) or AC 10 instead of a gauss(a poor substitute I would not recommend due to its poor ballistic velocity).
It's current implementation is counter intuitive.
Please fix or come up with another solution other than nerfing what I thought was a balance weapon.
It's abused with PPCs requires some sort of an elegant solution which I do not claim to have any expertise on. But maybe people smarter than me at PGI can come up with one.
AGAIN it's counter intuitive in it's current implementation.
I would also like to know some sort of statistical data if possible as to how many people are currently using the Gauss at the moment?
Thank you.

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 10 September 2013 - 01:50 AM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Since the last patch and the changes to the Gauss firing cycle I am now comfortable with this action and actually hold fire and not miss on targets more often. I have and run for about a week with the 733 Gauss build on a Highlander.

There is something wrong with the damage to the target not being registered correctly. I had different players on Ts riding in "observer" mode and witnessed numerous strikes on mech's from under 800mtrs with nothing more that 180 damage at match end. One in particular was 6 hits on an Assault mech from 600mtrs or less (center mass shots), match ended with damage of just over 200. (6 gauss should have easily destroyed any mech.) (yes I had other weapons but I was testing the gauss) [many other match's scores of easily 600 to 900 or more with different builds, but not when using the gauss]

So to test what was happening I set up a Mech with only 2 gauss and ran this build. Damage from this weapon does not even run comparable to dual AC10. Something is not right.

Has the damage from gauss been changed and not stated? Is there a technical problem with the weapon now that the speed is increased to 2000m/s? Was the nurf hammer slammed onto this weapon?

Has anyone else seen similar instances of lack of damage?

Thanks,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 10 September 2013 - 02:36 AM.

[Delas Ting Usee]

I haven't tested it as thoroughly as you...but now maybe I will. Please post this on their 'Patch' forum too. If they're going to nerf the Gauss at least have it STILL do 15pts of damage at extreme range.

[Tangelis]

Yes actually. Granted I wasn't sure about it but since the patch dropping with a gauss just didn't feel the same. Felt like it was underperforming. I chalked it up as having to get used to the new mechanic and my own fault but after a week and being used to things it still doesn't feel right.

Now that I see this post however, yes I agree.. I'm pretty sure the damage on the Gauss is not registering properly.

[Joseph Mallan]

I only have a problem with the fire delay being put on a weapon that is designated a "sniper's Gun". When a sniper has calculated everything and has the shot lined up he pulls the trigger and BANG the target drops. There isn't a 1.5 second delay. Why? Cause every 0.10 of a second counts.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 September 2013 - 03:44 AM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

It takes getting used to, but the projectile speed buff is huge. I find it actually more accurate than before. Especailly against fast targets. You just need to get used to the timing, such as starting to charge it just as you start to move out of cover to shoot so it's ready as soon as you're in position to fire, or charging it up just before turning to fire at someone in a brawl.

I wouldn't give up on it yet

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 10 September 2013 - 04:22 AM.

[Naja]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 September 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

I only have a problem with the fire delay being put on a weapon that is designated a "sniper's Gun". When a sniper has calculated everything and has the shot lined up he pulls the trigger and BANG the target drops. There isn't a 1.5 second delay. Why? Cause every 0.10 of a second counts.

There's a whole lot less involved in firing a gauss than making a well place rifle shot. =/ If anything, the delay makes it more like a sniper weapon, since there's less twitch reflexes involved.

Think of the delay as "Exhale, hold, squeeze". =D

Edit: So many typos

Edited by Naja, 10 September 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Had it on three of my builds, one is left. The Hunchback, which uses it as primary weapon and only has two other weapon groups to deal with. On the other two builds it doesn't work anymore because it is either two complicated or undermines the concept of the mech.

My Dragon 1C had one in the right arm, but also had two medium lasers in weapon group 2, two more in group 3 and an lrm5 in group 4. So I had to manage those lasers independently (two in torso, two in arm) and get the lrm-lockon AND get the gauss' charge time. I tried and failed several times. Last time, Sean Lang himself gave me a royal beating lol.

The other one was the Jager with one gauss, one ac/10 and two medium lasers. Of course the gauss and ac/10 are meant to be fired together. Not gonna happen with the change, obviously, so the concept of the mech was broken. I'm not yet sure what I'm going to change it, too. Maybe, for once, I should go ahead and exploit a weapon system, which I've never done before. Dual uac/5...

Oh and yeah, you might have noticed that none of my builds used the gauss + ppc meta. I guess the nerf did hit the right people, eh?

[Joseph Mallan]

Naja, on 10 September 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

There's a whole lot less involved in firing a gauss than making a well place rifle shot. =/ If anything, the delay makes it more like a sniper weapon, since there's less twitch reflexes involved.

Think of the delay as "Exhale, hold, squeeze". =D

Edit: So many typos

Doesn't work like that! I already use BRASS when shooting this is messing up that acronym.
Breath
Relax
Aim
Stop
Squeeze.

Once you hit the second S our round needs to go down range.

This Charge Mechanic forces a "Sniper" to rush his shot or lose his charge. That is a moronic nerf on a weapon that requires instant reaction.

Also it is the charged capacitors that explode when a Gauss takes a crit. If I am having to charge it manually then I should not blow up if I am not charging!

The wrong weapon was given the charging mechanic.

[Delas Ting Usee]

9erRed is right...Gauss doesn't seem to be doing as much damage as advertise. Has anyone else face the same issue?
@ PGI Developers - can you share the statistical data of Gauss use in the past week or so - I see a slight bump in Gauss use initially as players test the new mechanism but a HUGE drop off in the latter part of the week? Is that right?

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 10 September 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Unconvinced. I've spent some time with gauss post patch, and the change has made a big difference in how this gun works.

But, the 0 heat combined with the incredible range and new flight time also make it a much much better sniper weapon for sustained dps than the ERPPC now.

When you combine advanced zoom with the gauss, even 1, you can get into a very solid headshot/coring zone, but how you involve yourself in battle now involves more than peek and depress 1-2 buttons when you see something.

For myself, I've stepped off from ppc/gauss because after 6 months of playing with it primarily I was glad to finally pickup lasers and other guns again.

The last few days I have toyed with older configs like 4 ERPPC stalker and various 2 ERPPC gauss/ac/10/uac5 combos.

The AC/10 and dual erppc combo creates a similar dynamic as the old dual ppc gauss combo. but since the ac/10 is a bit shorter range it too can suffer.

I do conisder that this does appear to have thrown the gauss into "no mans land"

and yet, whenever I do take a gauss I find it unbelievably useful with it's 0 heat and tremendous range.

The playerbase needs time to adjust and skill up on using this weapon. A skillful single or dual gauss sniper and build needs some time to adjust and rythm out to these changes, and until at least a month has passed making knejerk adjustments is probably not adviseable.

[Rhent]

Gauss has a 4.75 cycle time. Its effectively the slowest weapon in the game with the biggest firing penalty in the game for the most tonnage and 2nd least ammo per ton. But yeah, everyone is saying the 15 damage justifies Gauss getting all of those penalties. Yeah right. PGI balancing at it finest. Thank God though, that PGI put out the GAUSS and moving forward post. Gauss is going to end up being an ECM type of change in the future as people figure out the penalties and realize other weapon systems give better dps for matches.

[Alistair Winter]

I've been playing a lot with my double gauss Cataphract before and after the patch. I did very well before the patch and I'm doing very well right now. For me personally, the advantages make up for the disadvantages. The increased projectile speed makes up for the charge-up mechanism in most situations. And once you learn to master the charge-up mechanism, it becomes less of a disadvantage (e.g. if you're aiming at a difficult target and lose your aim, you can just keep the charge in order to reset the rifle instead of wasting the shot)

Some further thoughts

• It's much more difficult now to combine the gauss with other weapons, as it requires a lot more brainpower. Combining the gauss rifle with, say, medium lasers and SRMs is almost impossible against a fast target, unless you're half machine, half jedi pro gamer. This is good, it leads to more specialized builds and more variety.
  
• Because it's hard to combine the gauss with certain other weapons, it's now less useful on medium mechs, as they don't have enough spare weight to equip PPCs, LLs or other ballistic weapons to combine with the gauss. This is good, because medium mechs shouldn't really be gauss platforms anyway. A YenLoWang-style build of gauss rifle + large laser works ok, but it's far inferior to what it once was, because the gauss rifle is now a lot harder to use in a brawl, where the YLW should excel.
  
• Due to its unique targeting mechanism, you might as well go for two gauss rifles instead of one, if you have the option. Jagermechs, Cataphracts, maybe even CPLT-K2s, they're generally better off with a double gauss rather than some exotic mix of weaponry. This is good and bad. It's bad because it eliminates variety and encourages boating. Instead of having only dual gauss mechs, UAC5 boats, LL boats and LRM boats, MWO should preferably strive towards having mostly balanced mechs (energy, ballistic and missiles, or at least two of the above) and only a few boats. If everyone's boating, then there's less variety.

In conclusion: The gauss rifle is still a great weapon. If you're not able to do well with it, then either try harder or find a different weapon. Not everyone does great with every weapon. I can't hit an Awesome assault mech with SRMs even if it's standing 10 meters in front of me. That's because I suck with SRMs. (And also, their hits don't register half the time, but you get the point)

[Archon Adam Steiner]

I like it; other than weight and somewhat mediocre ammunition use, the pre-adjustment (it was not just a nerf) Gauss was pretty much the perfect weapon; high damage, no heat, and no meaningful range restrictions of any significance (it could hit to ranges many people can barely see). There is a reason that any good player who fancied himself a sniper used it, and often as many as possible.

Now that we've seen the change, we've had to add a charge time mechanic, but we've gained a massive increase in projectile speed in return. The weapon, before, was an instant and virtually guaranteed splash of massive damage on any target at any range. Post-change, it's harder to hit fast-moving targets at close range (which helps Light and Medium 'mechs to be more useful), yet it's actually easier to hit a long-range target due to the projectile speed increase.

Because we both lost and gained with this change, I see it as a balance, not a crushing blow. The weapon was arguably over-powered before, much as the uAC/5 is right now. The weapon is now what it is supposed to be - a long-range sniper's tool.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Arrachtas, on 10 September 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

I like it; other than weight and somewhat mediocre ammunition use, the pre-adjustment (it was not just a nerf) Gauss was pretty much the perfect weapon; high damage, no heat, and no meaningful range restrictions of any significance (it could hit to ranges many people can barely see). There is a reason that any good player who fancied himself a sniper used it, and often as many as possible.

And these factors are what justified the 18-19 tons of Gauss and ammo to mount it. Take away the pre-adjustment mechanics and not it is ALOT harder to justify spending half or more of your total weapons weight budget on a single weapon that is only situationally useful.

Take the Dragon. I almost always exclusively used a Gauss as my primary weapon backed up by some combination of MLs, MPLs and/or SRMs. This worked because I COULD devote 18-19 tons to a weapon that did 15 damage at all ranges and was just as useful in a long range dual as in a Brawl, especially since I didn't have to devote even more weight to mounting heat sinks. Now with the changes, the Gauss actually becomes a liability due to it difficulty in using it effectively in the brawls the Dragon will usually find itself in.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Alistair Winter, on 10 September 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

I've been playing a lot with my double gauss Cataphract before and after the patch. I did very well before the patch and I'm doing very well right now. For me personally, the advantages make up for the disadvantages. The increased projectile speed makes up for the charge-up mechanism in most situations. And once you learn to master the charge-up mechanism, it becomes less of a disadvantage (e.g. if you're aiming at a difficult target and lose your aim, you can just keep the charge in order to reset the rifle instead of wasting the shot)

Some further thoughts

• It's much more difficult now to combine the gauss with other weapons, as it requires a lot more brainpower. Combining the gauss rifle with, say, medium lasers and SRMs is almost impossible against a fast target, unless you're half machine, half jedi pro gamer. This is good, it leads to more specialized builds and more variety.
  
• Because it's hard to combine the gauss with certain other weapons, it's now less useful on medium mechs, as they don't have enough spare weight to equip PPCs, LLs or other ballistic weapons to combine with the gauss. This is good, because medium mechs shouldn't really be gauss platforms anyway. A YenLoWang-style build of gauss rifle + large laser works ok, but it's far inferior to what it once was, because the gauss rifle is now a lot harder to use in a brawl, where the YLW should excel.
  
• Due to its unique targeting mechanism, you might as well go for two gauss rifles instead of one, if you have the option. Jagermechs, Cataphracts, maybe even CPLT-K2s, they're generally better off with a double gauss rather than some exotic mix of weaponry. This is good and bad. It's bad because it eliminates variety and encourages boating. Instead of having only dual gauss mechs, UAC5 boats, LL boats and LRM boats, MWO should preferably strive towards having mostly balanced mechs (energy, ballistic and missiles, or at least two of the above) and only a few boats. If everyone's boating, then there's less variety.

In conclusion: The gauss rifle is still a great weapon. If you're not able to do well with it, then either try harder or find a different weapon. Not everyone does great with every weapon. I can't hit an Awesome assault mech with SRMs even if it's standing 10 meters in front of me. That's because I suck with SRMs. (And also, their hits don't register half the time, but you get the point)

That is a good point. Combining with Gauss with lasers is quite hard (tried LLs and Gauss, was not impressed ). But then again it was hard even before the change, due to one being hitscan the other a projectile with just 1100 m/s.

[DeadlyNerd]

Gauss is a sniper weapon and should be used as a sniper weapon. I'm running a PPC/Gauss dragon and it's working fine. Problem is that people can't comprehend the fact that they can't just click a button and fire off a 35 damage shot. Also, everyone fails to understand that gauss is a sniper weapon, and not something you brawl with, the very reason few default loadouts actually have Gauss rifles in them.

As to anyone comparing real world snipers with mechwarrior, please, Arma III is out, America's army is getting a new game, heck even BF4 can be considered realistic.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 11 September 2013 - 04:30 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

DeadlyNerd, on 11 September 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

Gauss is a sniper weapon and should be used as a sniper weapon. I'm running a PPC/Gauss dragon and it's working fine. Problem is that people can't comprehend the fact that they can't just click a button and fire off a 35 damage shot. Also, everyone fails to understand that gauss is a sniper weapon, and not something you brawl with, the very reason few default loadouts actually have Gauss rifles in them.

Not true. It is that way cause few manufacturers have them at this time. As the timeline progresses you see more and more Gauss. In the 3070s the majority of builds are packing one gauss or another (light , normal or heavy) or at least one of the 5 PPCs.

Also The Gauss is still killer in an Alpha. You charge the Gauss Then hit our Alpha Button and release our Gauss round. Its really easy. But the Mechanic is wrong for a sniper's weapon.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 September 2013 - 04:32 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 September 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

Not true. It is that way cause few manufacturers have them at this time. As the timeline progresses you see more and more Gauss. In the 3070s the majority of builds are packing one gauss or another (light , normal or heavy) or at least one of the 5 PPCs

Fact is, there are *few now, and sniping is obviously considered a specialization, rather than a secondary skill.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 11 September 2013 - 04:32 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

DeadlyNerd, on 11 September 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

Fact is, there are *few now, and sniping is obviously considered a specialization, rather than a secondary skill.

Sniping should be a specialization. I am a rifle expert... 3 times. I am not a sniper, and I can shoot a man in the head at 500m with iron sights.