25 replies to this topic

[luigi256]

In the slower assault mechs (stalker/highlander/atlas) what are the best ways to combat really fast lights?

I stopped piloting them a while ago due to their low max speed and ability to be picked apart if out of position by a light or two. Any advice on countering them will be nice.

[Caswallon]

I don't want to sound like a smart (donkey) Luigi but the best way to defend against lights is with another light. There are Light hunter builds out there as well that do it pretty well but there is by design a limited set of options for an assault driver.

The best I can think of is a combo of streak srms and the 360 target retention module. That will be a nasty surprise for any Light harassing you.

Oh and remember to slash their legs with whatever lasers you have.

Good Luck!

[Maerawn]

luigi256, on 19 September 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

In the slower assault mechs (stalker/highlander/atlas) what are the best ways to combat really fast lights?

I stopped piloting them a while ago due to their low max speed and ability to be picked apart if out of position by a light or two. Any advice on countering them will be nice.

start backing up and counter turn, use torso to try to stay on target, you will fail dont worry the light will be coming around again... lastly find a wall and back up to it force the light to stay in your cone of fire to fight you, force it to burn through your exceedingly thick front armor and not core through your paper thin back...

[mrbash]

I found an alpha to the legs to be the most effective way to stop a light. It may be possible to let a light to fire enough frequently to overheat. When that happens, you can usually get some damage onto them. It is a bit of a gamble, in that you will have to hold off on firing hoping that light shuts down.

The problem is that lights often attack when you are attacking something else. In this case, there is not much you can do except for hoping that you have a team mate helping you out.

[OldWateley]

Try the chat window, make sure to call out your position and how many opponents you are facing. If they have ECM, your team might not know you are in trouble.

[Blakevich]

+1 to chat window. I was taking a cap point in my atlas and had a couple ravens show up. I backed myself into a corner and hollered for help while pot shotting them. My team showed up and cleaned house. Friends are an assault's best light mech defense.

[luigi256]

Hey thanks for all the quick answers everyone.

So I agree with all the helpful points, when it comes to chatting in combat I tend to not do that. I have not practiced it probably because I use mostly lights and mediums now and chatting in combat would more likely result in death. Sense assaults have more armor i'll give it a shot next time i face lights.

As for the streak I've run into this problem before with my own lights when i tried out streak srm. If they are going in circles around my assault I won't be able to get a lock on them (made more into a problem if they have bap and/or ecm). Personally I prefer normal srm over streak but if there is something that I am doing wrong with the streak missles I could use help with that.

[JigglyMoobs]

Rule one: don't let more than one mech circle you. If you see that's about to happen you need to rejoin your team pronto.

Other than that, it depends on what engine you have and how you are armed.

I have an Atlas RS with 3xLL, AC/20 and STD 350. In this mech I actually go to pick fights with lights. The reason is that with such an engine you have so much torso twist you can aim effectively with the lasers AND the AC/20.

Standard ops for when they come at you is to back up and turn, hit the light with your lasers (alpha or chain fire, depending on your heat state) and then hit them with AC/20. I usually turn with them until they start running ahead of my cross hair, and then I counter turn.

Most lights will go down with a couple of solid AC/20 hits and a few well aimed laser blasts.

If you can stand off from lights (say in a fur ball between enemy lights and your own lights), you're even more devestating. I've taken down 3 or 4 light mechs in a single match with this setup. The only mech that is problematic is the spider due to its small and off centered hit box. Even then I don't think spiders would want to bother you.

Other options with fast engines (STD 340 and above) include SRMs, LBX10s, AC/10s. The UAC5 doesn't seem to work as well for me now with the jam rate and the low single hit damage. The ER PPC doesn't work for me at all but some other people who are used to firing them can do ok.

In short, your best defense is a fast engine. If you really can't use that fast engine, you can try adding some streak SRMs to your arsenal.

[Saiyajin12]

Beagle active probe + 2 or more streaks. And pulse lasers work too, even normal lasers to a lesser extent. I carry streaks on most if not all my heavy/assault builds, mostly just to deal with them lights.

[Kamikater]

As an assault it is not your job to kill lights...exept if one shuts down right in front of you...blast 'em...with the biggest, nastiest alpha you can deliver. But sadly they don't do that often. So try to rely on your team and stay on your target...it ruins matches if an atlas goes for a spider in the middle of a brawl instead of firing on something bigger, that he can actually hit.

But sadly the aspect of teamplay seems to be on a descending path...too many lights and mediums that try to get easy kills by picking off nearly finished enemys instead of hunting and harrasing enemy support elements. Assaults that try to chase lights all over the map. Mediums at the center of an assault that die within seconds instead of trying to flank.

I pilot all weight classes on a constant rotation with a focus on fast medium and heavy bulids. So when going against assault in a jenner, cicada or hunch, I'll do fast passes...no circling. Try to approch from behing...deliver the payload and full speed back to cover. Repeat. Once the assault has turned I'm already 200-300 meters away. Theres is no way an assault can effectively chase me for i am avoiding open spaces with clear lines of fire.

So what would i do against a light pilot like me if im driving an assault. Simple Answer: Never get seperated from the team...if its a one on one situation...back to the wall. Full stop. Watch the seismic to get an idea of the lights approach vector and wait for em to show up; guns facing their direction. If the light is intact, a solid alpha will definetly scare him off...if not outright kill.

Mounting a bigger engine like proposed...yes thats an option, but consider the trade off...less weapons or less armour. I would not consider this solution, cause it gets you out of your role as an assault. By making it fast enought to hunt lights (lighter assaults can propably do that) you loose potetial to tank or quickly kill heavier enemies...and your firepower will be missed where the real action is.

[Autobot9000]

What assault mech are you running?

Generally 3 things:
1) Team work
Stay in a group;
Ask others for help
Be help to others

2) Piloting:
Circle with the lights movement direction using torso twist and turning in conjunction until it leaves your field of view. The turn + torso twist in the exact opposite direction until he reappears on your screen. Do this while walking backwards and while avoiding slopes.

3) Loadout
In any case you have to accept the fact, that PGI tries to make all mech classes equally strong. Once you accept this you might have a completely different goal when designing your loadout. I give an example: I make a Stalker 3F with 4LL and 2 SRM6 to face the heavies and assaults. But if I accept, that it is equally valuable to the team, if I kill the ECM spider or the ECM Atlas then I suddenly reevaluate that build: Suddenly a build with 4xLL and 4xSSRM2 and a Beagle Active Probe seems to be just as good as the other build, just considering this new goal.

Edit:
People argue pulse lasers are superior at defending light mechs. I would strongly advise the opposite: Load the testing grounds on alpine peaks and have a pulse and non-pulse laser version on your mech and strafe a shot over the snow. The pulse generates very few "ticks", where the regular version applies many such "ticks". Each tick is an event causing a proportional fraction of the total damage the respective laser will do. Now move both lasers quicker over the snow. See how far the ticks spread now? If a target moves fast it is by simple argument more likely to hit your target, if you have more ticks. Each tick is one chance to hit your target. Certainly to do the full damage you have to bring all the ticks into your target, but this is an unreasonable assumption. When a light encounters you, you want to make sure to hit him at all. This is what regular lasers do best.

Edited by Autobot9000, 19 September 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[LauLiao]

I would add one bullet to Autobot's Piloting point above. If you can, cover your own back. If you can put your back up against a building, cliff, or something else large and solid, you cut down significantly on the amount of area that lights can attack you from without fear of retaliation. In the open, it's pretty easy for a light or fast medium to stay behind an assault so that they can almost never fire back. If you're got your back covered, they can only come at you from the 180 degrees in front of you where your weapons are pointed.

Edit: Maerawn already pointed this out, and I missed it. Sorry Mae.

Edited by LauLiao, 19 September 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[Autobot9000]

Oh yeah, I forgot another important point for piloting: Manage your heat. Don't overheat to shutdown, unless he shut downs first and you have a chance to alpha strike him. If it is a fresh target consider the alpha strike of your particular loadout. Is it likely, that your particular loadout delivers 40+ damage to a single zone (SRM/LBX spread!)? If the answer is no, then alpha strike on one of his legs. A 40 damage alpha strike on the torso will almost always destroy the light mech instantly. A legged light mech is almost as good as a dead light mech.

[PEEFsmash]

Most of these answers are poopie =[

Almost any standard assault can beat a light 1v1, and it should be quite easy.

Step 1: Throw it in full reverse. If you back into a wall that's even better.
Step 2: Twist your torso from side to side until you catch them and their movement.
Step 3: Shoot them and they die.

I'm not kidding, the assault pilot has to be significantly worse than the light in order to lose, especially now that HSR is quite reliable, but the absolute KEY is throwing it in reverse as SOON as you know there is a light nearby trying to solo you. Walking forward just lets them get easy back shots.

[Alpha087]

mrbash, on 19 September 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

I found an alpha to the legs to be the most effective way to stop a light. It may be possible to let a light to fire enough frequently to overheat. When that happens, you can usually get some damage onto them. It is a bit of a gamble, in that you will have to hold off on firing hoping that light shuts down.

I wouldn't count -too- much on that one though. Any good Light pilot will be able to keep up a steady rate of fire without overheating themselves, usually through S/SRMs. The only sure fire way to not get ambushed by a Light (or any mech for that matter) is to make sure you -always- stay with your team and don't run out into the open.

With 12 vs 12s you have to just presume that most of the enemy team will be clumped up together, in which case coming face to face with 10 or so mechs by yourself will result in insta-death.

[luigi256]

Ok guys more good answers thanks again. As for the mechs I have that would be the following.

Heavy Metal: AC10 3 Large lasers std 300 engine 13 double heat sinks.
Stalker 5S: 4 large lasers, 2 srm 6, std 275 engine 18 double heat sinks.

So yeah slow on the speed at 54 and 52 max.

Have not piloted them in some time wonder how I well I will play them now.

Anyways thanks everyone all the info is really good will help when I play them after this week.

[Autobot9000]

Particularly shooting AC20/<insert ballistic here> guns is worthless against a good light pilot. The one time where this works, is when your movement direction and his are lined up, i.e. between his movement vector and yours is a zero or 180 degree angle. Then he is either running towards you or away from you. In this one instance you can hit the light reliably with a ballistic. A good light pilot never moves in such patterns knowing it spells doom for him. Hence regular lasers and guided missiles are the only way to actually hit a realistic light mech target.

Edit:
Chain fire the large lasers then to swipe the light. The other option is going for SSRMs and a BAP, but that means you are somwhat stepping out of your role. I would advise to stick to your role. Only if you are maximally frustrated from pugs you could consider mounting as many SSRMs as you have missile points and a BAP (plus 360 degree target module helps ofc).

Edited by Autobot9000, 19 September 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Autobot9000, on 19 September 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Particularly shooting AC20/<insert ballistic here> guns is worthless against a good light pilot. The one time where this works, is when your movement direction and his are lined up, i.e. between his movement vector and yours is a zero or 180 degree angle. Then he is either running towards you or away from you. In this one instance you can hit the light reliably with a ballistic. A good light pilot never moves in such patterns knowing it spells doom for him. Hence regular lasers and guided missiles are the only way to actually hit a realistic light mech target.

I think you've just got to get better at shooting that AC/20. Once you're good at it, it's the bane of the lights.

[Autobot9000]

JigglyMoobs, on 19 September 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

I think you've just got to get better at shooting that AC/20. Once you're good at it, it's the bane of the lights.

We can try it out. I use my Raven 3L /w 295XL and you get your dual AC20 Jager. We'll see how long you last

[Zerberus]

Either listen to Peef`s advice and watch them go kersplat as your ac/20 goes in one side and right out the other, or stay close to your team at all times and let them help you. As an assault mech, lights are not your primary targets.

Edited by Zerberus, 19 September 2013 - 03:35 PM.