51 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Foxfire, on 15 September 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

Which is exactly why they need to limit pin point damage(with a non RNG method) so that they don't have to complicate the game with balancing schemes that only serve to complicate the game.

The changes to Guass complicate the game. The ghost heat system complicate the game. Keep it simple and fix the one issue that makes those changes a necessity will eliminate the need for complication AND it can be done in a way that still allows skill to trump all.

Or they could split up the core section into smaller parts making it harder to hit. Again convergence isn't the issue.

[RandomLurker]

Imperius, on 15 September 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

Or they could split up the core section into smaller parts making it harder to hit. Again convergence isn't the issue.

The other option is to consolidate all mech armor into one huge area, so that convergence doesn't matter. That would be even worse though.

Sectional damage + Convergence = the problem. I don't think anyone wants to get rid of sections, since that renders this just another FPS, so convergence it is.

[Sharknoms]

Oh it's one of those threads again. Hey and look one of Homeless Bill's alt accounts is here too.
TL;DR
I want to shoot the thing I'm aiming at and not some magical dice deciding where my weapons hit.

[and zero]

....I think it's time to realize pgi doesn't listen to players suggestions....

not to mention having no idea whatsoever how to balance a game

[MustrumRidcully]

Iguana Iguana, on 15 September 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

Oh it's one of those threads again. Hey and look one of Homeless Bill's alt accounts is here too.
TL;DR
I want to shoot the thing I'm aiming at and not some magical dice deciding where my weapons hit.

There are no dice involved when there is no convergence at all.

[ShinVector]

My two cents on removing pin point convergence...

It will make light mechs even harder to kill.
Oh the assault pilots are going to make.... Sooo much noise.

[aniviron]

RandomLurker, on 15 September 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Convergence fix, with no RNG and no cones of fire:

http://mwomercs.com/...-with-no-cones/

Yes, I'm self plugging, but this forum gets more traffic and double posting is rude.

So, as I pointed out somewhere else, the pinpoint aim, massed direct-fire weapons has been the Mechwarrior metagame for 15 years. 6 games have all tried to fix it by rebalancing the weapon stats, and it has never worked. The aiming method itself must be addressed.

Pretty sure that MW2 had convergence, and the arms were always the very first thing to go in that game, followed by the side torsi and then the center. Seemed to work out pretty well there. Know why? Because the arms had large hitboxes, the side torsi did as well, and the center was a small area mostly covered by the previous. Parts come off, mechs take damage without dying immediately, time to kill is fairly lengthy, and all with convergence implemented in-game. Sounds like MWO has a hitbox issue to me.

Do you really want to play a game where if you are larger than your opponent and aim at his centre, every shot makes a crater in the wall just behind them? Can you imagine how ungodly complicated it would be to design a system that shows on your hud where each of the torso mounted weapons is going to hit? There are mechs 6-8 torso hardpoints; and that's to say nothing of including missile tubes. Removing convergence is going to result in nothing except legions of upset people on the forums wondering why their weapons won't hit what they're shooting at, and a hemorrhage of players.

[Satan n stuff]

Having torso mounted weapons realign themselves is fine, most previous MechWarrior games had it in some degree, and the models for a lot of mechs in MechCommander clearly show the weapons moving independent of the torso. What isn't fine is that all weapons take less time to align than you need to aim at something, and there is no hard limit on the angle any weapon can shoot at, the only thing that's limited is the aimpoint. Ideally lighter mechs which are more likely to carry close range weapons should be able to converge their weapons on targets as close as 90M or less, while the heaviest mechs should not be able to fully converge weapons inside 270M, this combined with a convergence speed reduction across the board would greatly reduce the risk of pinpoint damage crippling and/or killing a mech in one shot. Giving a penalty to convergence speed based on movement speed and jump jet usage would also make it harder to fire pinpoint accurate alpha strikes while moving, but making this penalty too severe compared to normal convergence limitations would cause most matches to turn into campfests ( again ) . Implementing this would force players to take their time to aim, reducing their overall damage output in exchange for greater accuracy.

[Imperius]

RandomLurker, on 15 September 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

The other option is to consolidate all mech armor into one huge area, so that convergence doesn't matter. That would be even worse though.

Sectional damage + Convergence = the problem. I don't think anyone wants to get rid of sections, since that renders this just another FPS, so convergence it is.

Can you read? Where the hell did I say get rid of sections? I swear people are put on this planet to annoy me! Dude smaller sections of the CORE which is what most die from. Would help spread the damage IF people can't be pin point accurate.

[Joseph Mallan]

Iguana Iguana, on 15 September 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

Oh it's one of those threads again. Hey and look one of Homeless Bill's alt accounts is here too.
TL;DR
I want to shoot the thing I'm aiming at and not some magical dice deciding where my weapons hit.

So you always hit the exact point you shoot at? Every time? I'm a Marine Rifle expert and I don't hit in a one inch group every time. When you can drop a one inch shot grouping when moving at 30 KpH+, come back and tell me you always hit what you aim at.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 16 September 2013 - 03:27 AM.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 September 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

So you always hit the exact point you shoot at? Every time? I'm a Marine Rifle expert and I don't hit in a one inch group every time. When you can drop a one inch shot grouping when moving at 30 KpH+, come back and tell me you always hit what you aim at.

If you are going to compare it to real life, it is more like you sights working correctly every time, than it is about hitting the correct spot every time. People already miss shots without any help from the game.

Edited by 3rdworld, 16 September 2013 - 03:58 AM.

[GMAK]

Convergence is a good thing. Without it the ballitic weapons and other ppc are useless.