12 replies to this topic

[Kai Allard-Liao]

I don't know if this has ever been brought up, but I have been thinking about this for a while. One of the most irritating things I have happen is choosing the Assault option for the server to find me JUST Assault games, and when we get in game to have it end in 2 minutes because the base was rushed. A thing I was always wondering is this: Why are there Command Mechs AND a Command Center, or base? If we have a command Mech on the field, like an Atlas, although I feel Victor's should fall in there also, I suggest this: As long as that Command Mech is on the field and operational, you can't capture bases. That would drastically minimize the base rushes and force an actual Assault fight. I know some will argue, "That's why YOUR side has lights, to stop that!" I disagree. The role of a light Mech is to recon and harass the enemy, not capture entire command posts. I don't know, it's just a thought. It doesn't take out base captures, because if you really wanted to capture a base for whatever reason, you could. You'd just have to take down a command Mech first. Ok, I'm ready to be yelled at now!

[Mao of DC]

I like this idea the only flaws I can find are. How do you know who is the commander? What happens if no one takes command?

[Fiest]

why is this in the balance forum?

On the op's idea - what's to stop someone taking a spider on top of a sniper spot where only jump jets can get you and staying there. Now half the enemy can kill you so they can cap

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Command Mech's are normally only mech's that can mount the Command Console, there are not very many but enough that each House or Faction could have one of there own designs equipped with this item.


The Following is a list of the Mech's that could mount the Command Console:
(# / # indicates more than one variant, underlines we have now or very soon.)

Atlas - AS7 D/K
Battle Master - BLR 1G/3M
Orion - ON 1V/1M
Zeus - ZEU 6S/9S
Grand Dragon - DRG 5K
Cyclops CP 10 Z/A
Marauder MAD 3M/5D
Warhammer WHM 7M/6L

Now if there is not a Command Mech on the field, due to weight limits or current mission task, or the Command Console has not been mounted (it's 3 tons), how would you know?
The new UI2.0 allows the entire company (12 players) to see what each pilot will have as his first ride and what's sitting in his "drop ship". (up to 3 additional Mech's) At the time of the Company or "group" formation a "Commander" and lance leaders are selected, and indicated by a symbol. This still doesn't indicate or show if a "true Command Mech" has been brought.

There is no visual indication from the outside that a particular Mech is a Command version. Only knowing which Mech's could be may give it away.
[there are no extra antenna's or sensors for those telltale signs, maybe something that PGI should look at adding to the art work when the Command Console is mounted.]

From Canon; If a Mech had the Command Console installed it effectively gave the Mech two control centers and if the first cockpit or pilot was disabled the second "seat" could take over the mech and continue fighting. (you basically had to disable/kill both pilots to stop the Mech.)

And back to the issue of what if there is no Command Mech on any of the drops? What if the task was to move rapidly and out flank your enemy, using only Mediums and Lights. (possibly also Drop ship weight limits) Hopefully when the Community Warfare aspects arrive this "Run to the Cap" style of "Assault" will be gone.
[Read: DropShip Assault mode/Base Defence mode/Capture Target mode] - all to own the planet or be driven off.

And as a note: the current "base" is not actually a base but a Resource driller mining a very valuable commodity. And must be protected or defended while it's does it's thing.
(Kind of like the Gold Rush miners jealously defending there claim, but here with very deadly force.)

All for now,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 16 September 2013 - 11:53 PM.

[Caswallon]

ShadowHammer, on 15 September 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

I don't know if this has ever been brought up, but I have been thinking about this for a while. One of the most irritating things I have happen is choosing the Assault option for the server to find me JUST Assault games, and when we get in game to have it end in 2 minutes because the base was rushed.

Many sympathies sir. This now happens MORE since the cap time slowdown in my experience Before a lone/crippled mech would try to cap many times. Now coz it takes SOOOO long for a solo cap you get Light Packs playing TrollWarrior online. Which in turn makes all of us that view cap as a legit occasional tactic vilified in turn as were guilty by association!

I think its an epic idea that you can't cap until the Unit commander is killed! However the mechanic would need to be ONLY the original commander counts. Otherwise each member of the team would take up command as the previous one died preventing Cap from EVER being useful. That I submit is going too far in the other direction

[Cyberpilot]

I like this idea, gives a use to the command console. The base where you start can't be capped as long as a command console is on your team. Command console, not the team/lance commander.

[Mao of DC]

Cyberpilot, on 16 September 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

I like this idea, gives a use to the command console. The base where you start can't be capped as long as a command console is on your team. Command console, not the team/lance commander.

Again I point out there would have to be some sort of indicator of who has the Command Console. Also WAY back in closed beta before ECM was turned on. You could put ECM on any mech. It wouldn't work but if wanted to waste the tonnage you could. My point is most likely only a few Mechs will be able to mount a command console. What happens if more than one mech on a team has one. Or even worse match maker puts 2 or more on one side and none on the other. Don't say it can't happen I've seen to many games where one side is loaded up with ECM and the other has none.

[Kai Allard-Liao]

I'm glad this topic took off! Sorry for slow response, I'm a cop and work at night, so I don't get on as much as I'd like. In answer to some questions: 1: A light Mech would most likely be incapable of holding the Command ability at least Spiders, as most commanders ride heavier Mechs anyway. Plus the Spider really has no tonnage to give up for a new module. Also, the timer could be implemented, kind of like in Flag Football. Remember as kids we used to play 5 second counts before we could rush the quarterback? If Lights were allowed the Command ability, fine, but a timer would be implemented (in all matches, not just ones where lights have Command) in which once the timer is done counting down, a Cap is possible regardless of the Command function still being active. This should nullify any lights hiding and trolling in that particular manner. Hopefully that addressed Fiests' worry. THAT being said, 9er brought up a very valid worry about swift-moving tactics, placing all folks in light Mechs. I don't see a Jenner ever sporting this console, but perhaps a Raven or Cicada. I'm not big into the technical manuals, so I don't know which ones are capable of this type of device, but just like Assault Companies, there are Light Companies, therefore there would HAVE to be a light mech capable of this. 2: No, you would not know which Mech had the Command function, at least the enemy can't see which Mech has it via an icon. Maybe it could be show by an extra antenna or something like 9er suggested. The enemy isn't SUPPOSED to know where the Commander is, unless said Commander is making it a point to be seen. Making it difficult to pinpoint the Command Mech is kind of the idea, otherwise everyone Alphastrikes the Commander then base rushes, and we're back where we started. An icon should be implemented, however, to allow friendlies to see who has Command function. Mao pointed out the icon idea, kudos, sir. 3: The Command Function does not transfer if the leader dies. Once the Commander bites it, then the base is free game. The whole point of this is to encourage actual FIGHTING in Assault mode. You want to cap? Great, but we have Conquest for that. This adds a little strategic flavor to the game, I think, where Base Capping is a last resort. Lastly, if there are more than one Mech with the function possible, the computer would have to randomly pick a person to be the Commander. This does NOT mean the fella taking over any movement tactics on the map and giving orders is automatically the one with the Commander Function, that would really leave a lot of people out that like taking command. It would be possible to do both, though. If one team DIDN'T bring a command ability, well, that kinda sucks. Really I would hope enough people would like the idea there would be at least one Command Mech in a battle, but if not, oh well! This could be remedied by release by having a launch room where we could see what our team members are taking so we could adjust accordingly. If this is a good idea, how would it be submitted to PGI? Thanks for the worries, guys! Really lets me think a passing thought out to it's more deviously complex outcomes.

Cyberpilot, on 16 September 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

I like this idea, gives a use to the command console. The base where you start can't be capped as long as a command console is on your team. Command console, not the team/lance commander.

Command Console/Command Center function would be a Team-wide function, not lance-specific. Each lance would not have their own Command Function available.

9erRed, on 15 September 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

Greetings all,

Command Mech's are normally only mech's that can mount the Command Console, there are not very many but enough that each House or Faction could have one of there own designs equipped with this item.


The Following is a list of the Mech's that could mount the Command Console:
(# / # indicates more than one variant, underlines we have now or very soon.)

Atlas - AS7 D/K
Battle Master - BLR 1G/3M
Orion - ON 1V/1M
Zeus - ZEU 6S/9S
Grand Dragon - DRG 5K
Cyclops CP 10 Z/A
Marauder MAD 3M/5D
Warhammer WHM 7M/6L

Now if there is not a Command Mech on the field, due to weight limits or current mission task, or the Command Console has not been mounted (it's 3 tons), how would you know?
The new UI2.0 allows the entire company (12 players) to see what each pilot will have as his first ride and what's sitting in his "drop ship". (up to 3 additional Mech's) At the time of the Company or "group" formation a "Commander" and lance leaders are selected, and indicated by a symbol. This still doesn't indicate or show if a "true Command Mech" has been brought.

There is no visual indication from the outside that a particular Mech is a Command version. Only knowing which Mech's could be may give it away.
[there are no extra antenna's or sensors for those telltale signs, maybe something that PGI should look at adding to the art work when the Command Console is mounted.]

From Canon; If a Mech had the Command Console installed it effectively gave the Mech two control centers and if the first cockpit or pilot was disabled the second "seat" could take over the mech and continue fighting. (you basically had to disable/kill both pilots to stop the Mech.)

And back to the issue of what if there is no Command Mech on any of the drops? What if the task was to move rapidly and out flank your enemy, using only Mediums and Lights. (possibly also Drop ship weight limits) Hopefully when the Community Warfare aspects arrive this "Run to the Cap" style of "Assault" will be gone.
[Read: DropShip Assault mode/Base Defence mode/Capture Target mode] - all to own the planet or be driven off.

And as a note: the current "base" is not actually a base but a Resource driller mining a very valuable commodity. And must be protected or defended while it's does it's thing.
(Kind of like the Gold Rush miners jealously defending there claim, but here with very deadly force.)

All for now,
9erRed

Thanks for the good info!

Fiest, on 15 September 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

why is this in the balance forum?

On the op's idea - what's to stop someone taking a spider on top of a sniper spot where only jump jets can get you and staying there. Now half the enemy can kill you so they can cap

This is in Balance cause I'm a noob and have no idea where to place it or who to suggest it to.

[Bearmauls]

I certainly agree, its frustrating to get cap-rushed, but I think that without some sort of weight-balancing well implemented, base-capping without fighting needs to be a viable option. If one team heavily outweighs the other, that underdog team needs someway to overcome that tonnage imbalance through faster movement. Otherwise, you would just roll a 12-assault team every time and what purpose would lighter mechs serve in a straight-up smash match?

Lets be honest, if your entire team of slow, giant scary killer robots walks away from your base with no scouting info on the enemy team, and lets itself get so far away from their base that an entire enemy lance can sneak by and cap it before you can get back? That's clearly a coordination and tactical issue, not a game-balance issue.

[Garlion]

I'm not a big fan of cap rushing, but not only is it a viable option, if the objectives are in order... then your primary objective is to acquire the enemy's base. The "killing everyone" option is just another way to achieve that objective.

IMO, they need to introduce a match type of just killing (no base at all).

[Goldhawk]

ShadowHammer, on 17 September 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

The enemy isn't SUPPOSED to know where the Commander is, unless said Commander is making it a point to be seen. Making it difficult to pinpoint the Command Mech is kind of the idea, otherwise everyone Alphastrikes the Commander then base rushes, and we're back where we started. An icon should be implemented, however, to allow friendlies to see who has Command function. 3: The Command Function does not transfer if the leader dies. Once the Commander bites it, then the base is free game. The whole point of this is to encourage actual FIGHTING in Assault mode. You want to cap? Great, but we have Conquest for that. This adds a little strategic flavor to the game, I think, where Base Capping is a last resort. Lastly, if there are more than one Mech with the function possible, the computer would have to randomly pick a person to be the Commander. This does NOT mean the fella taking over any movement tactics on the map and giving orders is automatically the one with the Commander Function, that would really leave a lot of people out that like taking command. It would be possible to do both, though. If one team DIDN'T bring a command ability, well, that kinda sucks. Really I would hope enough people would like the idea there would be at least one Command Mech in a battle, but if not, oh well! This could be remedied by release by having a launch room where we could see what our team members are taking so we could adjust accordingly. If this is a good idea, how would it be submitted to PGI?

Command Console/Command Center function would be a Team-wide function, not lance-specific. Each lance would not have their own Command Function available.

1st off, dude, I love your passion for the game, but after you wrote this it got me thinking, What if, there was a way to scout the enemy and "discover" the commander of the enemy team, in that case, it would change the gameplay, because you would have the enemy organize Head-hunter squads to go after the commander. But of course, the "Commander", must be scanned at close range by a light or some other mech that will carry specialized scanning gear, hmmmm Raven? Perhaps? Not only would the Commander have a little more trepidation on leading the charge on the enemy team, but there would be more protection and organization of the drop since once the commander goes down, the base can be capped.
2nd, I love the "cool down" aspect where there is a certain amount of time where you can cap the enemy team's base. I'm sure everyone is tired of the quick rush.

[Garlion]

Goldhawk, on 17 September 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

1st off, dude, I love your passion for the game, but after you wrote this it got me thinking, What if, there was a way to scout the enemy and "discover" the commander of the enemy team, in that case, it would change the gameplay, because you would have the enemy organize Head-hunter squads to go after the commander. But of course, the "Commander", must be scanned at close range by a light or some other mech that will carry specialized scanning gear, hmmmm Raven? Perhaps? Not only would the Commander have a little more trepidation on leading the charge on the enemy team, but there would be more protection and organization of the drop since once the commander goes down, the base can be capped.
2nd, I love the "cool down" aspect where there is a certain amount of time where you can cap the enemy team's base. I'm sure everyone is tired of the quick rush.

BAP... Just give that ability to BAP.

[Anais Opal]

The problem with cap rushing et al is the current game mechanics, no room for tactical play or information warfare.

I'd also want to point out that it is a mission objective, the reason it annoys people is that:

1) they think this is Hawken

and

2) no one ever has the intelligence to send people back to stop a cap.

PUGs are PUGs trigger happy brainless morons 9 times out of 10.