10 replies to this topic

[Kalimaster]

Okay, we all know that Moderators patrol these threads for ill advised topics, threads or posts, and they have the ability to lock a thread down, or remove a post. But they have nothing to reward a player or individual for making a post that brings a smile to their face. So here it is. Moderators should be able to reward a player.

Imagine if a Moderator were to be able to give a player a standing item for his or her cockpit, say a tapered monolith with a lighted colored tip (violet), in the event that a player makes an outstanding post.

[Egomane]

I actually like that idea. There is a community contributor banner in the game files already, but it has been a long time since it has last been given to someone.

[TLBFestus]

Sure, that sounds fair IF we can grade the moderators for their performance too.

Otherwise it's going to be a big suck up festival with the White Knight types leading the charge.

Dammit.....now I just KNOW it's going to happen.

[Egomane]

I don't believe that any of the current moderators would hand out such a reward, just because someone is defending the game against critics. It would need more then that. A well written guide or a long time helper in the new player help forums, for example. Something that contributes positivly to the community. A quarrel over what is good or bad with the game or its developer, in other words black knights against white knights, very rarely (probably never) will achieve that.

Of course a black knight will have a harder time to achieve such a reward. But that lies in the very nature of the black knight. He is a negative force and therefore often disqualifies himself by his own actions. Still, if he manages to jump over his own shadow and do something positive for the rest of the players and the game, he'd get his chance to be rewarded with such a gift.

Edited by Egomane, 14 August 2014 - 01:16 PM.

[TLBFestus]

I take issue with your definition of Black Knight.

I'm no fan of the Devs, but I have always loved the game, including parts of MWO. Problem is I see glacially slow progress in some areas and no progress in others. Combine that with misleading statements, broken deadlines, indecipherable weapons mechanics, and excessive monitization makes some of us very unforgiving of similar "mistakes" in the future.

As such we hold the Developers "feet to the fire", not out of some negative will, but out of hope that they smarten the heck up and deliver on the things they have been promising.

Naturally as a game such as this evolves, it's unavoidable that some plans will change. I don't think that there is a person in this community that ever expected that PGI would deliver on everything they described, to the letter. However, once they failed to deliver so many things, repeatedly, one after the other, all the while managing to produce a steady stream of sale items which many people bought based on expectations PGI themselves created, there is bound to be "bad blood" created.

This "bad blood" or "negativity" was not created by the players, it was created by the Developers and is simply the response of some of us to PGIs actions.

So while some may claim that "Black Knights" only want to hurt the game, I say that is incorrect. The vast majority of us want it to succeed, but at the same time we do our damnedest to keep the Developers honest. Their past track record, if you've been around long enough, doesn't earn them a lot of benefit of the doubt at this point.

Edited by TLBFestus, 14 August 2014 - 06:29 PM.

[Mr D One]

TLBFestus, on 14 August 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

This "bad blood" or "negativity" was not created by the players, it was created by the Developers and is simply the response of some of us to PGIs actions.

That's spot on Festus. You can't blame the effect when your the cause.

I have had my share of critical posts of PGI but in the same token I have praised them when they have done something right.

I think both sides can be Black or White Knights depending on the situation.

Edited by Dar1ng One, 14 August 2014 - 08:22 PM.

[Ryvucz]

Wonder if I'd get one for my gifting.

[Egomane]

TLBFestus, on 14 August 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

I take issue with your definition of Black Knight.

I knew that a post like this would come as a response

TLBFestus, on 14 August 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

I'm no fan of the Devs, but I have always loved the game, including parts of MWO. Problem is I see glacially slow progress in some areas and no progress in others. Combine that with misleading statements, broken deadlines, indecipherable weapons mechanics, and excessive monitization makes some of us very unforgiving of similar "mistakes" in the future.

And attacking the devs or the game over it again and again and again and doing mostly nothing else, is what I qualify as a black knight. You can be critical about them all you want, as long as it doesn't result in thoughtless attacks.

TLBFestus, on 14 August 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

As such we hold the Developers "feet to the fire", not out of some negative will, but out of hope that they smarten the heck up and deliver on the things they have been promising.

That's a very common excuse! "I want to do something good so I'm acting bad" Sorry, but all that does is make you look bad.

TLBFestus, on 14 August 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

Naturally as a game such as this evolves, it's unavoidable that some plans will change. I don't think that there is a person in this community that ever expected that PGI would deliver on everything they described, to the letter. However, once they failed to deliver so many things, repeatedly, one after the other, all the while managing to produce a steady stream of sale items which many people bought based on expectations PGI themselves created, there is bound to be "bad blood" created.

Yet, the black knight quote "to the letter", whenever soemthing changes or is delayed and call PGI liers (or worse) over it. So if they understand such things, why do they keep acting like that?

TLBFestus, on 14 August 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

This "bad blood" or "negativity" was not created by the players, it was created by the Developers and is simply the response of some of us to PGIs actions.

No, the negativity was created by the players. They felt wronged, when things changed or where delayed (because they did not want to accept or understand it, unlike you claimed above) and started being negativ, with posts up to unveiled death threads. It is no wonder when the devs retreated from this and started doing their own thing without further communication with the community and that they sometimes responded likewise.

Yes, they changed things, but the initial negativity came not from them!

TLBFestus, on 14 August 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

So while some may claim that "Black Knights" only want to hurt the game, I say that is incorrect. The vast majority of us want it to succeed, but at the same time we do our damnedest to keep the Developers honest. Their past track record, if you've been around long enough, doesn't earn them a lot of benefit of the doubt at this point.

I never said they only want to hurt the game. I said they are a negative force, because they do almost nothing then attacking the game and the developers. A black knight wouldn't be here arguing, if he wouldn't hope to achieve some kind of change in favor of his believs (at least I hope that's the intention for most). And I don't doubt that his believes are something positive for him. But the way he is trying to invoke these changes is a negative (the wrong) one.

And it would be nice if we could keep this on topic, instead of turning it in another flame fest against the developers. There are plenty of topics doing the later already.

Edited by Egomane, 14 August 2014 - 09:55 PM.

[TLBFestus]

This isn't an argument worth having.

From your detailed point by point dissection of my reply, it's evident that you feel any of us the criticize PGI more than we praise them have only one goal, to exact revenge upon PGI for "presumed"slights they inflicted upon us.

I'm sure that there are a few with that intent but I'm saying again that that is not the defining trait of the majority of us that accept the mantle of "dark knight". The performance and actions of PGI have lowered expectations, through repeated instances of poor decisions, Byzantine mechanics and harmful comments. Whether intended as a "joke" or not, RB's "you are on an island. Moment" and B.E.s "forum users are not our target audience" comment, which was bound to insult most Founders who DO use the forums AND were sold a different version of the game were asinine, but more significantly were a revealing measure of the lack of simple experience and forethought that is needed when dealing with an established title and an experienced fan base.

Admittedly, they brought the game back to life, but while doing so they Offended/insulted a veteran community and through their own actions they created a deep, deep pool of knowledgable, angry people from one that was overwhelmingly supportive at the outset. None of us funded this game with the intent to destroy it. That anger was created, then fuelled over a long, we'll documented series of (mostly) avoidable blunders from PGI itself. Such animosity does not disappear overnight or after a few steps in the right direction. They created the hyper-vigilant community with little tolerance for miscues.

B.E. At least has made a couple of genuine attempts at apology (one of which I quite openly applauded), but RB has never given anything but a half-baked excuse for his lack of tact, not even close to a proper apology with explanation in my opinion. His personal lack of presence on the forums is actually a good thing for the game, as I'm convinced he does more harm than good in this venue.

As a Moderator on these forums it's only natural that you would be a "white knight" type of supporter of the game. I'm not saying that as a bad thing, but from the very nature of your position,and statements in this thread, you can't claim neutrality, which should be the goal. You aren't any where near the whitest of white knights, but it's clear which side of the line you stand on.

In the end, this discussion was originally about letting Mods reward forum users, and my disagreeing with that, without some sort of check/balance in place for users. Doing this would not only be biased, for the reasons I stated, but would only serve to further polarize opinions with an appearance of favouritism. By that I mean it's entirely likely that as a Mod, for various reasons, you or others would be inclined to reward one side over the other. It's much more likely that you would reward work on the forums that praise or validate PGI, than criticism that points out errors and flaws, but is equally well thought out and constructive. Being negative isn't always a bad thing.

Anyhow I just finger-pecked this opus on an iPad, so I'm done here.

Edited by TLBFestus, 15 August 2014 - 09:40 AM.

[Jeb]

Honestly I have seen systems abused like this in too many games... so I have to vote no...

[Kalimaster]

I think that we are getting a little off topic here. It would be up to the Moderators to figure out what would constitute this reward. I can see the points of the arguments presented here.

The suggestion still stands as a means of giving the ability for Moderators to reward a player instead of simply being able to lock posts down.