79 replies to this topic

[Draconis March]

Ymirok, on 15 September 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

At least you aren't rude or replying with unoriginal, childish remarks.

You don't really have any room to talk about childish remarks when your original post is one of the more infantile posts in this thread. It reeks of pure bias and ignorance. Your main point is basically "MWO isn't like this so it sucks." If your post didn't sound as much like a tantrum and you showed that you were actually informed, maybe people would take it more seriously. But as such, people just assume you're trolling. I wonder why.

SIN Deacon, on 16 September 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Last I played, and sensor package cost MC.

Well, you're wrong.

SIN Deacon, on 16 September 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Regardless, Hero mechs are paid to win which is enough.

As people have reiterated several times in this thread already, Hero mechs are not strictly better than standard variants. You can keep repeating that they're "pay to win" all you want, but it's not going to suddenly become true. The Yen-Lo-Wang is not the best Centurion. The Heavy Metal is not the best Highlander. The X-5 is not the best Cicada. And so on. The best variants of each chassis can be acquired with C-bills, and decking them out can be done with C-bills only. Last I checked, this didn't constitute as a P2W model.

SIN Deacon, on 16 September 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Once they took rearm and repair away they officially scrubbed this game.

Uh... what? You LIKED being punished for simply playing a match? You LIKED grinding C-bills taking much longer? You LIKED the idea of new players being crippled? You LIKED the idea of everyone hiding because they were afraid of taking any damage at all because they would get taxed for it?

Rushin Roulette, on 16 September 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

Only stock mechs permitted with Tier 1 Technology (no UAC, ER, Pulse, Artemis weapons. No DHS, AMS, TAG, NARC, ECM, FF or ES alowed).

Since when is NARC "Tier 1 Technology"? Last I heard, it was trash. Unless "Tier 1 Technology" is supposed to mean something other than the obvious here.

Edited by Draconis March, 16 September 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[Lostdragon]

Sheraf, on 16 September 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Most people don't play Awesome because they can't handle it. That does support his idea that mechs don't sux, pilots do . If you can't handle a chassis, it doesn't mean that no one can also, keep that in mind.

People don't play the Awesome because it is inferior. Period. How many drop commanders would let you play an Awesome on a 12 man team? I don't have a ton of experience in 12 mans but I have never seen an Awesome in one but there are Victors in many of them. I also probably see 100 Victors to every 1 Awesome in pugs.

If fhe Awesome were as good as the Victor it would be viable in 12 mans and just as popular in PUGs. You can talk about how highly skilled a good Awesome pilot is all day, but the fact of the matter is that same pilot would be even better in a number of other mechs that outclass the AWS by a wide margin.

Just for perspective, I love the Awesomes and have mastered three. Playing an AWS compared to say a Cataphract is definitely hard mode. I want the chassis to be viable but right now it just is not as good as many others.

Want proof? Look at the results of the last Assault vs. the World tournament. The top Awesome score was 1988. Let's see how the other chassis compare to that:

Difference in score between top scoring AWS and other top scores:

Light: 166
Medium: 68
Heavy: 225
Atlas: 225
Stalker: 195
Highlander: 270
Victor: 327

Number of pilots who outscored the top Awesome pilot:

Lights: 4
Medium: 3
Heavy: 5
Atlas: 4
Stalker: 6
Highlander: 11
Victor: 5

I think the numbers speak for themselves.

[Corvus Antaka]

SIN Deacon, on 16 September 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

I took a quick look at the merc corps out reach. No high end tier team from before January 2013 is still around. I wonder why....

Because they don't really love mechwarrior or Battletech.

[Sadistic Savior]

Ymirok, on 15 September 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

Time to give Mechwarrior: Living Legends a try. Let's hope it isn't wasted potential.

We can only hope.

Don't look back. Run Forest, run!

[SIN Deacon]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 16 September 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Because they don't really love mechwarrior or Battletech.

DING DING DING DING DING, we have a winner! I wanted one of you automatons to finally say it and I'm glad you reached down, grabbed your nuts and said it. Also to any of the baddies up above, you can't prove a wrong with a right. Just because some of the chassis's are paid to win and the others aren't, doesn't mean if you pilot the mechs that aren't paid to win has done any justice. You'll always be at a disadvantage before you even get into combat, and that is paying to win.

Draconis March, on 16 September 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

You don't really have any room to talk about childish remarks when your original post is one of the more infantile posts in this thread. It reeks of pure bias and ignorance. Your main point is basically "MWO isn't like this so it sucks." If your post didn't sound as much like a tantrum and you showed that you were actually informed, maybe people would take it more seriously. But as such, people just assume you're trolling. I wonder why.


Well, you're wrong.


As people have reiterated several times in this thread already, Hero mechs are not strictly better than standard variants. You can keep repeating that they're "pay to win" all you want, but it's not going to suddenly become true. The Yen-Lo-Wang is not the best Centurion. The Heavy Metal is not the best Highlander. The X-5 is not the best Cicada. And so on. The best variants of each chassis can be acquired with C-bills, and decking them out can be done with C-bills only. Last I checked, this didn't constitute as a P2W model.


Uh... what? You LIKED being punished for simply playing a match? You LIKED grinding C-bills taking much longer? You LIKED the idea of new players being crippled? You LIKED the idea of everyone hiding because they were afraid of taking any damage at all because they would get taxed for it?


Since when is NARC "Tier 1 Technology"? Last I heard, it was trash. Unless "Tier 1 Technology" is supposed to mean something other than the obvious here.

I did actually, because you should have to earn your equipment on the battlefield, not just save up for it. If you can't afford it, you shouldn't be able to run it.

Edited by SIN Deacon, 16 September 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[mailin]

SIN Deacon, I wonder a couple of things about your research on merc corps. 1) How can you determine a "high end tier team"? 2) In the case of my merc corps, we are members of other groups who became disgruntled with their original groups, but . . . wait for it . . . still LOVE playing MWO, so we formed a new group. Oh, and guess what, our numbers are growing. We can and have fielded 12 man teams on the spur of the moment. Most of the "facts" that you state, and continue to defend, are simply wrong. There is NO pay-to-win in this game. As such, PGI needed to find another way to make a little bit of money, so they introduced hero mechs, mech bays, colors and camo patterns for real money. You can pay real money for certain modules, but those are consumables, which means, use them once and they are gone. If you want them again, you need to buy them again. And, once again . . . get this . . . there are consumables with nearly identical properties that you DON'T need to spend real money for. So, some people spend real money to lessen the grind. In your case, either complain about the grind and spend real money, or don't spend real money and grind away. Either way, I, who have only spent real money on a cammo pattern, purple paint, mech bays and an X-5 will gladly welcome you on the field of battle, or will not be bothered with you because you chose to play another game.

[IR_Quinn]

I must admit my first 30-40 games were by far the least enjoyable games I've played on MWO. If you can get through those and get your own mech with a decent build it gets far more fun. But once you've done those games and chose your first mech [research first before you waste your c-bills] it's a great game to play. I have 3 Jenners which I've unlocked the elite skills for and they are so much fun.

I have bought some MC which I spent on my first Jenner and an Atlas the other day. However I could have kept my money and earnt more c-bills if I wanted to. I guess the developers need to earn money from their game and how they do it now is the least gaming breaking way possible [at least I think so].

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

I have a 1.5 KDR in my AWS-8T. I run around with it setup like this: AWS-8T. I'm not quite sure if this is the correct loadout but it is close.

[Corvus Antaka]

SIN Deacon, on 16 September 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

DING DING DING DING DING, we have a winner! I wanted one of you automatons to finally say it and I'm glad you reached down, grabbed your nuts and said it. Also to any of the baddies up above, you can't prove a wrong with a right. Just because some of the chassis's are paid to win and the others aren't, doesn't mean if you pilot the mechs that aren't paid to win has done any justice. You'll always be at a disadvantage before you even get into combat, and that is paying to win.

So odd. I started with 20,000 MC, and I spent it all on fluff except for the orion hero mech, which is certainly not pay to win. I've never felt "at a disadvantage" because i didnt use MC to buy consumables or anything else - I just eased the grind along and paid to support something I play. God-forbid we pay for products that we enjoy now-a-days - some mouth breather is gonna smack it down to a big conspiracy or call us "sheeple" or "automatons".

Converted some XP to GXP to EASE the grind.

I just read an article yesterday about Candy Crush

http://www.theguardi...-king-interview

It's interesting because here we see directly how gamers perceive "paying" for games, and treat their fellow gamers - the ones who actually pay to you know, support the company.

Not sure if it is the entitlement of today's generation that makes them think companies make games on welfare instead? Maybe because those very gamers are living on welfare?

[StarGeezer]

VanWinK1LL, on 16 September 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Relatively new player here. No matter what mech is being piloted, from Commando to Atlas, experience and skill trump everything. You have to take your lumps like everyone else, before you start getting good, no matter how good a mech you pilot.

Never was this more apparent than a match I just finished watching on Twitch. It was 3 on 1...a lowly Jenner facing a Jager with 2xAC20's, a Stalker and a Hunchie. The Jenner was one well-placed (or extremely lucky) shot from being smithereened, but the 3 were separated, and he methodically took them out one at a time. It was quite impressive. Probably one of the most gifted light pilots I've ever seen.

[fluffypinkbunny]

LMAFO which Tier are you talking here, I have yet to see a Tier system put in place by PGI or IGP, or any of the developers, are you talking about some sort of league player run, in a BETA I cant stop launghing, people in class are looking at me funny.

The game is still in develepoment yet, you claim to have some sort of rank? lets see these PUBLIC numbers, oh wait they aren't there, stats are for your own enjoyment, there is no such "TOP TIER" system in place yet.

Here is the door, show your own way out, I'll continue to play the game I love, k thanks, bye.

[Edustaja]

Difference between MWO and Warthunder/WoT etc is that you can grind out just one chassis and forever be competitive.
In the other games you just grind up a tree which becomes progressively slower and everything you unlock makes the lower tier stuff obsolete.

It's up to you to choose your chassis that you want to level. having an assault is not the end game, especially with upcoming weight limits.

[StarGeezer]

Colonel, you and I think a lot alike sir. Many games today are free to download and play. The ONLY consistent revenue-generating stream comes from selling fluff items or incentive packages like the Founders and Project Phoenix. They don't place ads in the games, there's no game-altering advantage to be had.

I will freely and gladly pay to help support a game I enjoy. I did so with Neverwinter. And I've already supported PGI not only with several MC purchases, but the Overlord/Saber pre-orders as well. Hell, if they still offered the Founders packs, I'd order one without hesitation. Why? Because it's the value I place on the product, and the enjoyment it brings me. Not everyone shares my estimation, and that's fine. They don't have to. But for the love of Pete, I just wish many of the "vocal downtrodden" who come to complain would simply find another venue they really DO enjoy and silently move on without the requisite drama.

[SmithMPBT]

EyeDie I, on 16 September 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

a person who has read the forums before ranting would know the free premium day at download would stack with their cadet bonus and earned even more cbills.im sure this will be in ktown in 2 or 3 hours.

A proper engine is 4-5 million, plus DHS, Endo, new weapon loadout = 8+million minimum to refit the mech they earned during their cadet bonus. One day of premiums not gonna help much with that unless they play 24 hours straight.

As people have said, its brutal for new players in MWO.

[Draconis March]

SIN Deacon, on 16 September 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Just because some of the chassis's are paid to win and the others aren't

*facepalm* You just keep repeatedly claiming this, but STILL haven't supported it in any way. Probably because it's veritably false. And you chose to ignore my response. Probably just willful ignorance.

[New Day]

Niko Snow, on 16 September 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

http://www.mechlivin...the-founders-3/

Bryan has indicated that his conversations with MWLL have always included a mutual respect for each others' craft, and the developers of both games have addressed and refuted this allegation several times. There were also allegations of a 'cease and desist' among other pressure tactics... this is also false

Living Legends was an awesome fan-created and free mod which touched on the MechWarrior franchise in a different way than MWO has: But the notion that we were somehow involved in their creator's decision to cease development is inaccurate at best, and toxic at worst.

Then it was just convenience that MWLL died just as MWO was getting started? A mighty good convenience might I add.
For all we know they might have been forced to sign an NDA. If MWLL devs said that they shut down because of MWO, it would have done as much damage as them continuing to develop would.
I also read that article and it's as vague as every PGI statement ever. It's just 'We talked, didn't decide anything, etc. etc.' BAM MWLL drops dead.


Apparently this is was the unedited farewell message (not so flowers and roses is it):

Quote

To clarify how this situation came to be I'll go into a bit of detail about what's been happening behind the scenes to clear up any misconceptions. As Developers and Staff of Wandering Samurai Studios, we are, as of this point, no longer allowed to create future content based on the MechWarrior IP due to legal obligations on behalf of various rights holders. These rights holders own the Legally Binding, Non-Transferrable, Non-Commercial License Agreement with Microsoft and as of 2013 will no longer officially support the MechWarrior: Living Legends division of Wandering Samurai Studios. This is not a choice of the development team, this is a choice of the ownership and we have no control over the decision-making process. While we may not agree with the choice that must be made we respect their decision to make it, as without them, this project would have never come to fruition.

I of course assume that by right holders they in no case mean PGI, right Mr. Snow?

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 16 September 2013 - 02:03 PM.

[SIN Deacon]

Baddies will be Baddies. Keep getting mad at those leaving the game! Nothing needs to be explained!

[Kmieciu]

Edustaja, on 16 September 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

Difference between MWO and Warthunder/WoT etc is that you can grind out just one chassis and forever be competitive.
In the other games you just grind up a tree which becomes progressively slower and everything you unlock makes the lower tier stuff obsolete.

It's up to you to choose your chassis that you want to level. having an assault is not the end game, especially with upcoming weight limits.

That is exactly the problem with MWO. There is no incentive to buy an Awesome if you already have a Victor. Why use a Trebuchet when I have a Centurion? Weight limits will not change this,since those mechs weigh the same. This makes the game boring in the long run.

I mastered mechs that are perfect for my play style and I have no incentive to buy new inferior ones. I have a favorite light, medium, heavy and assault mechs. Right now, I've use 4 out of 37 mechs I own.

In Warthunder, you can find a favorite plane for every nation (5x) for every tier (20x). If you like to fly a bomber you can multiply this number by two. This means that in the end, you could have about 100 favorite machines. Now THAT is diversity.

Mastering one aircraft will probably take the same time as mastering one mech, but the difference is that you have a choice. You CAN play with only one plane if you want, while in MWO, a new player HAS TO do it.

Besides, Brian has stated that new player experience is their top issue right now (along with hit registration). I'm just saying that they should take a look at the other FTP games and take notes. If it wasn't for the IP, I would not spend time and money on this game

Edited by Kmieciu, 16 September 2013 - 11:31 PM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Draconis March, on 16 September 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Since when is NARC "Tier 1 Technology"? Last I heard, it was trash. Unless "Tier 1 Technology" is supposed to mean something other than the obvious here.

Tier 1 Technology is the technology commonly available at 3025 according to .. NARC is permitted. I corrected that in my post, as only TAG was Lostech at that time (therefore not commonly available).
Believe it or not, the 3025 stoch mech only games were by far much better balanced than any full modded games by far. The game, mechs and weapons are very well balanced in MWO, the problem lies in how the players are modifying their mechs to maximise how effecive they are.

[Steve Varayis]

Ymirok, on 15 September 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

Hello. It's me. Generic new guy.

Why does this game shower me with sadness? Wasted potential, I am guessing. This isn't Mechwarrior. Rename it to Robotfighters or something.

Sure, it has the famed 'mechs we all know and love... nevermind, there's no Mad Cat. Not a Mechwarrior game.

But let's get to the point: Why can't it be like Dota 2? Now don't get mad and tell me I can't compare it to a MOBA (or ARTS if you so desire).

You know, all the heroes (think of them as 'mechs) are available to you right off the bat. There is no payment (or tedious grinding for that matter) to unlock that which is VITAL GAME ASSETS. There is no rotation. Everything is available. Pretty crazy, right?

MWO is more like League of Legends. Vital game assets are very limited to you. It'll be difficult to counter certain enemy setups. It's like having 20 Ravens (avid F2P enthusiasts) assault 20 Atlases (gullible, easily manipulated P2W sympathizers) head-on. This is only an example. I hoped you could figure this out by yourself.

The only things you can buy with real money are cosmetics and tournament tickets. To conclude; Why isn't this game more like Dota 2 in the sense of business model?

It's too late to change this trainwreck though. And I won't be the one sitting in the fire.

Time to give Mechwarrior: Living Legends a try. Let's hope it isn't wasted potential.

Remove LL

MWO stronk

Also, just because the *Timberwolf isn't in the game means it isn't mechWarrior. Otherwise all the 3025 players of Btech aren't really playing BTech