51 replies to this topic

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

I agree with Boz...totally eliminate smoke and screenshake for the AC2...that way pilots will be comfortably numb to the fact that their armor is melting...and let's put silencers on the AC2 as well...no need to disturb anyone with only 2 pts of damage...just go about your business, these aren't the DPS that you're looking for...

[The Boz]

Psikez, on 19 September 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

The lack of understanding of how and when to torso twist in this thread is disturbing

OK, I'll bite.
My current mech is an Atlas-D with two AC2s, four MPLs and two SSRMs, packing a 300 STD engine.
Under what circumstances is it right for me to torso twist?

[Kanatta Jing]

The Boz, on 19 September 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

OK, I'll bite.
My current mech is an Atlas-D with two AC2s, four MPLs and two SSRMs, packing a 300 STD engine.
Under what circumstances is it right for me to torso twist?

When you're over heating, when you're retreating into cover, when you think the Victor's AC 20 is fully charged and when a LRM volley is landing on you.

If the AC 2 fire is disorientating you, you should be retreating into cover.

[The Boz]

Kanatta Jing, on 19 September 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

If the AC 2 fire is disorientating you, you should be retreating into cover.

I already do the first few, but this one, THIS is what I am getting at. If you try to attack the AC2 attacking you, you must first face him. Facing him means exposing the shakesmokeflash hitbox. Getting shakesmokeflash reduces your ability to return damage.
Conclusion: If an AC2 attacks you, you should retreat.
Is there something that I am missing?

[nemesis271989]

Oh Mighty GOD Emperor...

[Thunder Child]

My Dual Gauss Jager says "Hi". Seriously though. The Flashbang of AC2s is only as bad as you imagine it is. I don't run from AC2s. I reposition. I WILL run from Quad LL, Quad PPC, Dual Gauss, or Dual 20s. These are VERY high on my threat priority, because ONE decent Salvo will ruin your day. The Dakka Builds need to sustain a steady stream of fire on their target to do serious damage. Even the recently nerfed Uacs are a greater damage threat.
But hey, what do I know. After all, I'm only a noob, who ran a quad AC2 Jager (without Macro) till Ghost Heat made it too hot for my liking. IMHO, AC2s are as close to balanced as they should be.
In fact, as of the last patch, I think I've seen the most diverse collection of loadouts since before the PPC/Gauss Meta.

[Sephlock]

Tycho von Gagern, on 18 September 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

What's next? Small lasers? LRM5s? SRM2s? Make your case; change our minds... we're all laughing listening.

Actually slas got indirectly nerfed a while back (through the nerfing of the only mech that could really make use of them) and LRM5s got nerfed at least once, didn't they?

So yeah, things are worse than you think.

[YueFei]

The Boz, on 19 September 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

I already do the first few, but this one, THIS is what I am getting at. If you try to attack the AC2 attacking you, you must first face him. Facing him means exposing the shakesmokeflash hitbox. Getting shakesmokeflash reduces your ability to return damage.
Conclusion: If an AC2 attacks you, you should retreat.
Is there something that I am missing?

If *anything* attacks you from an unexpected direction, you have to react defensively.

If it's a striker who suddenly hits you really hard, you should probably relocate and seek cover, to avoid having him pop up and hit you again while you sit in the same spot dumbfounded. Even if you spot him the next time and hit him, you're still on the losing end. Your Atlas is a DPS build, and rather short-ranged besides the AC2s. What makes you think you can win in a one-salvo-for-one-salvo type of exchange?

For example, if you are facing a Hunchback-4SP that uses its speed to dictate the range of the engagement, and attack from 240 meters, your MPLs will deal 66% of their damage. Your 4 MPLs would hit for 16 damage, and your AC2s for 4 damage a pop. If that Hunchback-4SP exposes himself for 1 second to shoot, you can deal maybe 28 damage to him,, but he'll hit you for 49 damage. If you twist during his shot, you'll miss your chance to shoot back. If you don't twist, he can deal most of his damage to the same spot. At that rate, he'll take your right shoulder off after 3 or 4 exchanges. Even if you manage to remove his shoulder, too, you're entirely at his mercy: he can engage you from 400 meters, where his medium lasers can hurt you, but you have no weapons that can hit him back.

If it's a sniper who shoots you, again, you would have to retreat and try a different covered approach. Your ability to return fire against a sniper is laughable: plink him with 4 damage per shot, maybe able to hit him 2 or 3 times for 12 damage total, while eating 30 to 45 damage in return.

Hell, if it's a Light Mech spotting you for his LRM buddies to hit you, if his LRM buddies are smart and use the right angles to bypass your cover, you would once again be forced to relocate, either to break LOS or to adjust your angle behind cover to block the missiles.


Seems to me you just might be too hard-headed to admit when someone's gained an advantage over you and you need to *move*. Are you also the type of person to keep throwing chips into a poker hand where you're at a massive disadvantage, just because of your pride?

Edited by YueFei, 19 September 2013 - 08:48 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

It's always funny to see assault mech freak out when you shoot them with ac/2 from afar. Now that is OP!

[MustrumRidcully]

The Boz, on 19 September 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

OK, I'll bite.
My current mech is an Atlas-D with two AC2s, four MPLs and two SSRMs, packing a 300 STD engine.
Under what circumstances is it right for me to torso twist?

During your normal "firing rotation" - almost never. And that's the drawback of AC/2s, and often also the drawback of mixed weapon builds.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

AC's all of hem are OP at the rate of fire (especially when boating them) added to the damage they do (especially when boating them).

[Joseph Mallan]

I complained about them 6-8 months ago (roughly). My opinion hasn't changed. Vez, I think Kobai is talking about he fact that the AC2 is a light damage cool running AC for 30 years, now it is fire breathing sandblaster! In 10 seconds an AC2 does 10% the damage of a AC20 on TT. Here they throw the same(or nearly the) amount of damage and much much more heat.