7 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

More and more I see the #1 new 'mech building mistake: Armoring arms for single weapons, or trying to split crits into the arms.

This is often times a bad idea.

The fact is, many 'mechs operate great with only one, or no, arms. Many times designs using all torso-mounted weapons can also fit Ferro along with XL, freeing tonnage up for ammo or DHS to put in the engine.

So next time you are filling an arm's armor level up to put that medium laser on, consider using that tonnage for a big engine upgrade, more cooling power, etc. It makes a huge, huge impact on good/bad designs!

[Koniving]

For me, I decide this based on whether or not the arm's weapons are important to me but more so, can the arms be used to protect me?

Example: A Catapult's arms can't really protect the Catapult. So if the weapons in them aren't important I lower the armor.
A Cataphract's arms may hang low, but when you look up they can raise enough to shield a large amount of your torso when under fire. Even if the arm weapons are not important I maximize the armor here and put those arms to good use.

[scJazz]

Victor Morson, on 20 September 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

More and more I see the #1 new 'mech building mistake: Armoring arms for single weapons, or trying to split crits into the arms.

This is often times a bad idea.

The fact is, many 'mechs operate great with only one, or no, arms. Many times designs using all torso-mounted weapons can also fit Ferro along with XL, freeing tonnage up for ammo or DHS to put in the engine.

So next time you are filling an arm's armor level up to put that medium laser on, consider using that tonnage for a big engine upgrade, more cooling power, etc. It makes a huge, huge impact on good/bad designs!

So true!

The other part being... symmetrical hardpoint layouts do not have to be symmetrical!

Yes you can make the right half of your mech the same but there is no rule that even states that the Left Arm of a Blackjack needs to be the same as the right!

[Alaskan Nobody]

scJazz, on 20 September 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

......there is no rule that even states that the Left Arm of a Blackjack needs to be the same as the right!

But.. but.. but.. but.....the CDO!!!! (or OCD if you do not have it )

[Konril]

Victor Morson, on 20 September 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

More and more I see the #1 new 'mech building mistake: Armoring arms for single weapons, or trying to split crits into the arms.

Actually, I don't think that is anywhere near the bad mistake that you think it is. Or even a mistake most of the time.

One of the things that makes the Centurion so hard to kill is the shield arms. The shape of the left arm is such that a pilot that torso-twists the arm between an attacker and his own mech will completely cover the torso with that arm. So the attacker has few choices. Blow through the arm to get to the rest of the mech, aim for the legs, or find another enemy to attack until the odds are a bit better. If the enemy needs to blow through your arm to make your side torso vulnerable, your toughness with an XL engine has just doubled. With a standard engine, if the enemy needs to blow through both arms and the side torsos before getting doing half damage to the center torso because the remains of the side torsos are still absorbing damage, well, that's how the Centurion earned its current reputation.

This trick isn't as easy with other mechs because of bigger torsos. But it still works. The Commando, Trebuchet, Quickdraw, Awesome, Victor, Highlander and Atlas will leave very little of their torso exposed when twisting an arm to face an enemy. In fact, the only three mechs I can think of that don't really benefit defensively from their arms is the Jenner, Cicada, and Catapult.

Then there is the opposite extreme...

Quote

The fact is, many 'mechs operate great with only one, or no, arms. Many times designs using all torso-mounted weapons can also fit Ferro along with XL, freeing tonnage up for ammo or DHS to put in the engine.

Let me say a few words on Endo Steel, Ferro-fibrous, and XL engines. XLs take up 3 of the 12 spaces in the side torsos. Sure it save some weight, but it does limit what you can fit in the side torsos. The dynamic structure and dynamic armor generated by the matching upgrades are dynamic because they can move to other locations to make room for whatever you want to put there. You can put all your weapons in the arms instead of the torsos and still use these upgrade. Mind you, your mechs hard points have probably made the decision of what to put where for you.

And about the opposite stream I mentioned, let me say a few words on arm-lock this option is "on" by default to make it easier for newbies to learn to aim. It also gets forced on anytime you are in third-person view. However, when you turn the option off your arms are able to move faster and with a greater range of motion than your torso. This can make a big difference when fighting against any fast scout mech.

Spider, SRM loaded Catapult, and even some Highlander pilots will try to jump in a close in brawl. The reason is simple, torso mounted weapons can't track vertically very well so the jumper can create a few seconds where they are just too high for the opponent to hit. But unlocked arms can aim high and low very easily. So when you have the weapons in your arms, those jumping opponents are just easily predictable targets while they're in the air.

So instead of it being a universal "mistake," there are simply a lot of good options there. With barely a handful of exceptions, you are better off with fully armored arms and weapons in them than without.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Konril, on 20 September 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

However, when you turn the option off your arms are able to move faster and with a greater range of motion than your torso. This can make a big difference when fighting against any fast scout mech.

But unlocked arms can aim high and low very easily. So when you have the weapons in your arms, those jumping opponents are just easily predictable targets while they're in the air.

To add to what Konril has said: this would also be one of the only advantages the Commando has over the other light mechs: Arms that swing out.

Only some Spiders also have this - but are outgunned by most if not all Commandos.

[SethAbercromby]

scJazz, on 20 September 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

The other part being... symmetrical hardpoint layouts do not have to be symmetrical!

Damn my unreasonable desire to create symmetrical designs if the chassis allows to do so.

Symmetrical layouts keep grouping simple and efficient, I also claim that they might actually be better them most other options. Sure, you might be able to squeeze in that Gauss Rifle or ERPPC but if it's at the cost of overall efficiency, there's no point to do it.

[Mycrus]

I run very light armor in arms...

Like my jenners are typically in the 3 pt range..

If you can shoot the arms of my jenner... GG to you...