21 replies to this topic

[Darramouss]

Hey there people. I have two questions that I'm hoping can be answered.

1) When a shell hits the ground near a mech, does the mech take any damage from the explosion?

2) Small vs medium vs large lasers. If you stock two small lasers they do 6 damage between them vs a single medium's 5 for the same weight. 2 mediums do 10 vs a large's 9 for less than half the weight. Is the only benefit to going larger the extra range?

Thank you!!

[Zphyr]

1) Nope.
2) Kind of. You have to factor in the hardpoints and overall role though. You would not bring a SL if you like to not be "glued" to your target.

[Grym]

1) No. UNLESS, theres a hit registration issue. Most of this is seen when shooting at light mechs since they are fast movers. In some cases you can score hits if you aim just behind them if moving to side to side from your point of view.

But for most cases no.

2) Lasers. Dont use small lasers. Although some may disagree, they are pretty worthless at this juncture.

First, depending on how new you are to the game you might not know this. Get double heatsinks. Its almost gauranteed you will need them to run a decent mech.

As for your example. 2 medium lasers do 10 damage and a large does 9. However the damage falloff range and max range is much larger for the large laser. Also 2 medium lasers will occupy 2 laser slots.

Look up ghost heat on the forums.

In general i will always consider using a large over 2 mediums as long as weight allows it. For me its just useful in more situations than medium lasers.

[mailin]

But you also have to look at recycle times, heat and weight. Sure 2 small lasers weigh the same as one medium, but one medium recycles slower and makes more heat than 2 smalls, and a large laser weighs 5 tons, whereas a medium weighs one ton. Lots of different variables, but generally mediums are sort of the standard. If you're running a light that may not have the weight to spare, or are concerned about heat, then maybe switch some or all to small lasers. If on the other hand you want to be able to reach out and touch the enemy from far away, large lasers or even PPCs may be the way to go, but at the expense of heat, weight, and recycle time.

[Modo44]

The longer the range, the more consistent the damage you can do with the laser, but sustained DPS drops. SLs are great for high DPS at hugging distance, but getting there can be an issue with every other weapon reaching farther. ERLLs let you strip armor from across the map, long before many builds can even hit you, but you need LOS, and they are too hot for sustained firing. The MLs and LLs typically provide the best range/weight/firepower compromise.

[Rina Fujimoto]

1) There is no splash damage in this game.
2) Never ever ever ever ever ever use Small Lasers, ever, they are awful, awful, awful, they are not worth taking when medium lasers are only .5 tons heavier, with twice the range and a nice solid 5 damage each for reasonably low heat, never ever use them, ever. DPS is worthless in this game, it's all about getting in the most damage as quickly and as fast as possible in an instant rather than over time. A Medium Laser Jenner will always kill a Small Laser Jenner (assuming equal skill).

[Modo44]

There is one use case for the SL: ERPPC+SL on a Spider. Use the SL to make the target turn, pepsi in the face.

[Alaskan Nobody]

I run 4 small lasers on my Death's Knell hero mech - I found medium lasers were to hot - and if I was smart about how I approached, the loss of range was not to bad.


Then again, TDK is an odd mech to try and load out - only things it does better than a Jenner would be the arm sweep and acceleration/deceleration......

Edit: added a comma

Edited by Shar Wolf, 24 September 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Sadistic Savior]

Darramouss, on 22 September 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Small vs medium vs large lasers. If you stock two small lasers they do 6 damage between them vs a single medium's 5 for the same weight. 2 mediums do 10 vs a large's 9 for less than half the weight. Is the only benefit to going larger the extra range?

The large laser does more damage to a single area. The two mediums may not hit the same area. And yes, there is the range as well.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Sadistic Savior, on 24 September 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

The large laser does more damage to a single area. The two mediums may not hit the same area. And yes, there is the range as well.

Not entirely accurate. All lasers do damage over time so can spread the damage around if the shooter or target moves. 2 or more lasers could originate from different locations, but generally try to converge on a single point and so might or might not hit different areas.

Also, if they are installed in the same location, might even come out as one beam. First time I ran a Dragon, I thought I had f'ed up and only installed one LL instead of 2.

[Sadistic Savior]

Nick Makiaveli, on 24 September 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

Not entirely accurate. All lasers do damage over time

So what? My statement is still accurate. At any given time, that large laser is hitting one specific point, and doing more damage than 2 medium lasers would have done at two different points.

No matter how you slice it, the large laser is doing more point specific damage, no matter where that point happens to be at any given time.

With good weapon convergence, Medium lasers could perform as well or better for point-specific damage. But on most mechs, weapon convergence is insufficient IMO. Especially if the lasers are at different ends of the body. Either way, it is far from a given that multiple weapons will converge on the exact same point on the target. With a single weapon, that is never an issue.

[Hop per]

Just a comment on folks bashing the small laser. I agree that it has very limited use, however I use 4xSmall Pulse on my Jenner, along with 2x SRM 2s. Lots of pilots are going to rage and scream at this, with some good reasons. Small pulse weigh the same as mediums, and do less damage, and with 90m range, you have to be on top of folks to use them. SRM 2s, well no one uses them as well.

But what the SPL and SRM-2s do for me is let me fire almost anytime I want. And I can nearly guarantee that I can distract one or two heavies/assaults with this constant fire, pull them out of fight for awhile, which reduces there damage output and giving my team an advantage.

The point here is that I think all weapons in the game have a role and purpose, and contrary to popular belief it does not always translate to alpha damage or DPS. Take the time to try them, and find your sweet spot of range, damage, and utility.

That said not a single other one of my mechs has SL or SPL .

Edited by Hop per, 24 September 2013 - 10:42 AM.

[Sign]

Sadistic Savior, on 24 September 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

So what? My statement is still accurate. At any given time, that large laser is hitting one specific point, and doing more damage than 2 medium lasers would have done at two different points.

No matter how you slice it, the large laser is doing more point specific damage, no matter where that point happens to be at any given time.

With good weapon convergence, Medium lasers could perform as well or better for point-specific damage. But on most mechs, weapon convergence is insufficient IMO. Especially if the lasers are at different ends of the body. Either way, it is far from a given that multiple weapons will converge on the exact same point on the target. With a single weapon, that is never an issue.

Newsflash: weapon convergence is instantaneous. The 2 med lasers will hit the same spot always, out damaging the large laser at their respective ranges.

The only case this instant convergence might affect anything is when shooting ballistics or PPCs at a fast moving target, when the projectiles converge on the spot the target was when you fired, and may cross each other as they miss and keep going.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Sadistic Savior, on 24 September 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

So what? My statement is still accurate. At any given time, that large laser is hitting one specific point, and doing more damage than 2 medium lasers would have done at two different points.

No matter how you slice it, the large laser is doing more point specific damage, no matter where that point happens to be at any given time.

With good weapon convergence, Medium lasers could perform as well or better for point-specific damage. But on most mechs, weapon convergence is insufficient IMO. Especially if the lasers are at different ends of the body. Either way, it is far from a given that multiple weapons will converge on the exact same point on the target. With a single weapon, that is never an issue.

Right.....thus my use of the word "entirely". A true statement can contain nothing but facts and still mislead or leave a false impression.

This isn't about you being right, this is about helping the OP. Thus I sought to make sure the OP understood. I was able to track what you were getting at, but the OP might not.

[Sadistic Savior]

Sign, on 24 September 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Newsflash: weapon convergence is instantaneous.

Whether it is or not, weapons do NOT always converge. There is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise, because I have seen it for myself. Convergence accuracy will depend on placement and the mech. Even weapons that appear to converge do not always actually converge.

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The 2 med lasers will hit the same spot always, out damaging the large laser at their respective ranges.

LOL...wronnng. Even on a stationary target

[Sadistic Savior]

Nick Makiaveli, on 24 September 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

This isn't about you being right, this is about helping the OP.

I am doing that by correcting the misinformation. The OP is free to ignore me and find out the hard way if he chooses. I am just offering my own perspective.

I know for a fact that weapons do not necessarily converge on the same point. I found this out the hard way. Convergence will depend on the mech chasis and placement. A 4p hunchbacks lasers will not hit the same spot on a target.



Notice where the lasers are hitting when he fires more than one at the same time.

[Sign]

You are confusing weapon convergence with arm/torso convergence. The only time in the video where the lasers do not converge is when he moves is arms sideways and the torso has not yet realignied.

This does not invalidate the fact that all weapons instantaneously converge on their reticles. All torso weapons fire at the same spot, and all arm weapons fire at the same spot. If torso/arms are not aligned at that moment, then they will obviously not hit the same place.

Long long ago there was actual weapon convergence in the game, where all torso weapons -for example- needed time to adjust and converge their fire trajectories at the same spot and if you fired too early, shots would go all over the place. This is not the case anymore as this was removed.

This is also why the "pinpoint" pilot skill does nothing currently. It's a remnant of ages past.

[Sadistic Savior]

Sign, on 24 September 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

You are confusing weapon convergence with arm/torso convergence.

Oh good. Then we agree weapons do not always converge. Glad we got that out of the way.

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The only time in the video where the lasers do not converge is when he moves is arms sideways and the torso has not yet realignied.

Even if that is true: A single weapon would not suffer from that problem. Correct?

Quote

This does not invalidate the fact that all weapons instantaneously converge on their reticles.

It completely invalidates it. You are just arguing semantics. I said weapons do not always converge...and that is correct.

A single weapon does not have to worry about that. It always hits the same spot. He was asking if there is an advantage to using one big weapon instead of two small weapons...that is an advantage.

On my Orion, I had a large laser mounted in each arm last night. The lasers did not hit the same spot on my target despite the fact that they were linked and I have arm lock on. They did not converge.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 24 September 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[Aym]

Sign, on 24 September 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Newsflash: weapon convergence is instantaneous. The 2 med lasers will hit the same spot always, out damaging the large laser at their respective ranges.

The only case this instant convergence might affect anything is when shooting ballistics or PPCs at a fast moving target, when the projectiles converge on the spot the target was when you fired, and may cross each other as they miss and keep going.

Wow, try using arm mounted weapons on a few more mechs in a few more circumstances before you rail about game-play mechanics you might not be truly aware of. I can guarentee you that you can very easily hit two parts of the enemy mech if your two lasers are firing from different spots on your mech.

[Sadistic Savior]

Here's a simple test:

Mount medium lasers on each arm and group them together. Walk up to any mech at point blank and fire them. See where they hit.

Do they hit in the same spot?