88 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

omegaorgun, on 06 November 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Also the amount of premium mechs that had it as it's main ballistic now resorting to ac10 etc and weaker compared to ac20 counterparts becuase of it.

People that like it are the people who get killed by it or stupid trolls.
The ones that dislike the mechanic are actually the ones who used it.

As stated this has not stopped pop tarting.

lol.

No offense, but this might be the dumbest post you ever have made. Seriously. I still run my GaussCat. I have many teamamtes who run Gauss Jagers. My Favorite Atlas is my RS with the Gauss and 4 LLasers. And in my clan, we all do just fine with them.

Why? Because the amount of time you and yours spend QQing on the forums about the Gauss, we used learning to practice with the new mechanic. And viola! Magically, we can use it.

Is it the all purpose God Stick twitch weapon it once was, that obsoleted every other ballistic on the field? Thankfully, NO.

It is a fabulous Sniper/Support weapon (as it is supposed to be) that many of us have no problem using with a Joystick, with a mouse, and such. And a LOT of us also still use them just fine in twitch scenarios, by simply exercising some situational awareness, and the like.

[NRP]

Pariah Devalis, on 07 November 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

There is an adage used in piloting: Stay ahead of the aircraft.

Stay ahead of your mech and the gauss is "fine." Use your situational and tactical awareness to mentally keep tabs of the enemies' locations. Utilize friendly radar locks while you are in cover. Gauss rifles, much like LRMs, work better with teammates you can rely on, since in theory you only expose yourself long enough to plant a shell right in your target's chest. Using the radar contacts your allies paint, you can predict or outright see where the enemy is or is heading to, time a charge, and blast them as either you or they clear cover. Turning, charging, aiming, firing out of the turn works with a little practice, too.

You know, this is all well and good to discuss theoretically on an Internet forum, but it doesn't usually work out too well when the **** hits the fan and you just gotta make something happen yourself. That is when the gauss proves itself vastly inferior to other weapons, and I think it's really the point some of us are trying to make. Sure the gauss works well when everything goes your way, you have good teammates, and face dumbass enemies who can't aim and stand still. However, you usually don't have these luxuries, especially when solo PUGing.

Sometimes (most times), your armor is gone, everything's critical, you're jumping and torso twisting to spread incoming fire over what's left of your mech, and you have a very small window to get a kill shot off on a similarly weakened enemy - this is the situation where the new firing mechanic blows. And this situation is much more common than one where you have good teammates, time to watch your radar, and position yourself optimally so you can aim and fire at your leisure.

[Bishop Steiner]

omegaorgun, on 06 November 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

So I am supposed to accept that my favourite weapon in the game is ruined and my favourite mech is now and $30 pixel paperweight.
I will not sit back and will continue to voice my dislike of it as i paid enough dam money for it.

actually you bought a chassis. The weapons are modular. Also you bought a chassis in a BETA. Guess what, BETA literally means all things are subject to change, buyer beware. Your rigid thinking, and belief that the only way something can be good is if it is the ezmode god stick it was before, is YOUR problem.

Dear god, are you 12 or something?

[Bishop Steiner]

NRP, on 07 November 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

You know, this is all well and good to discuss theoretically on an Internet forum, but it doesn't usually work out too well when the **** hits the fan and you just gotta make something happen yourself. That is when the gauss proves itself vastly inferior to other weapons, and I think it's really the point some of us are trying to make. Sure the gauss works well when everything goes your way, you have good teammates, and face dumbass enemies who can't aim and stand still. However, you usually don't have these luxuries, especially when solo PUGing.

Sometimes (most times), your armor is gone, everything's critical, you're jumping and torso twisting to spread incoming fire over what's left of your mech, and you have a very small window to get a kill shot off on a similarly weakened enemy - this is the situation where the new firing mechanic blows. And this situation is much more common than one where you have good teammates, time to watch your radar, and position yourself optimally so you can aim and fire at your leisure.

gotta totally disagree with you NRP. I have and still use the gauss too much, too easily, to buy into that.

The SOLE place the gauss is inferior, is for dealign with fast moving targets at PBR. Guess what? It's supposed to be. That is how you balance a weapon the does sick damage, withthe fastest projectile speed and best range, for no heat.

The USS New Jersey never used it's 16 inch main guns to swat PTT boats either. It used it's secondary weaponry for that. It's caller "right weapon for the right job". A Barrett 82 is the finest man pack sniper weapon money can buy. That operator, or his spotter tend to carry an M4 too though, because it sucks for CQB.

The only thing PGI did wrong, with the Gauss (and the UAC5 TBH) was to let their mechanic be abused for so long in the first place. The Gauss is not, and was never meant to be the no heat, all purpose anti everything weapon. And I can tell you now, with that crazy cooldown it already has, I would much rather keep using it as is (though I would prefer a traditional double tap mechanism) than have to wait even LONGER to come back online and have even less DPS. Why? Because I can aim, and I can set up the shot/charge just fine, because I actually practice with it. And despite not being ideal for QB anymore (and thus making the ac20 obsolete and pointless) I have given many a Jenner a hypersonic colonoscopy with them.

[Lightfoot]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 November 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

You have not said why it is ruined. Why is it ruined? Because you want to brawl with a gauss rifle?


Good luck getting THAT issue past the serious faces committee.

Weapons are designed with purposes in mind. What do you expect, taking a long ranged, precision coil gun into a fast, brutal slugfest? Did you want the Gauss Rifle to be good at everything? Or have I missed the point you were trying to make about gauss rifles at some point between you making interchangeable arguments about words and claiming the HM is ruined?

In all honestly, I want you to construct a solid argument for Gauss Rifles as you see them existing. What do you want out of them. What is your vision for them. Then how do you intend to balance them? Then we can have a good conversation about why you feel the way you do, and you could very well make some good points.

Okay, but no long range or sniper weapon gives you only one second to fire it. A one second fire window is a 'shoot from the hip' style weapon and those are brawling weapons. As currently implemented the Gauss Rifle is actually more accurate at brawling ranges, just a bit cumbersome.

The reason why it's bad for brawling is it has the lowest DPS per ton of any weapon in MWO so it just doesn't do enough damage to compete with AC 5's, 10's, or AC20's, and certainly not Medium Lasers, at sub 270 meter ranges.

So the Gauss Rifle would have at least a 5 second firing window if it were actually configured as a long range or sniper weapon, but right now the de-sync mechanic just works as a nerf to keep most players from using it. What game has a sniper rifle that gives you only one second to shoot? Only MWO, period. So if they honestly want the de-synched Gauss to be a sniper weapon, accurate aiming will need to be enabled, not one second 'shoot-from-the-hip' shots.

I am actually at the point where I have adapted my mechs to not use the Gauss Rifle and my tactics to take advantage of the Gauss Rifle not being usable anymore. Anyone I spot with dual Gauss is toast. An easy kill.

Edited by Lightfoot, 07 November 2013 - 09:15 AM.

[Amsro]

omegaorgun, on 07 November 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

It is in ways but when an ER-LLAS raven is ducking a weaving out of cover whilst you are trying to manage a charge mechanic how much armor has he stripped off you before you take the shot.

charge/miss/charge/miss/charge/miss/charge/team mate in the way

I've never had a raven trade fire with me in a Gauss mech, one Gauss round on target is enough to send them packing. I use Gauss as a light legging weapon, works amazing in that role.

The Gauss is now a surgeon weapon, 15 DMG where you want it. Just need to be clever to make it work.

Besides Dual AC/5 is nearly as useful for those who don't like the charge mechanic. In fact I would almost say that triple AC/2 is the best weapon setup in the game.

I understand if you don't like Gauss but don't QQ and tell people its useless because its VERY far from useless.

[arghmace]

Gauss is still rather good but for a little bit more investment you get 2xAC5 which is way better in most situations.

[Amsro]

Lightfoot, on 07 November 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

Lowest DPS per ton of any weapon in MWO.

Anyone I spot with dual Gauss is toast. An easy kill.

DPS isn't the all mighty of stats, Pinpoint 15 while you DPS all my armor. GLHF. You think Gauss goes solo? Is it the only weapon you mount on a mech?

I'm pretty sure that Dual Gauss is an extremely double edged build, and is completely at the mercy of the Catapult or Cataphract pilot's skill. Also fairly rare on the battlefield.

[Bishop Steiner]

Amsro, on 07 November 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

I've never had a raven trade fire with me in a Gauss mech, one Gauss round on target is enough to send them packing. I use Gauss as a light legging weapon, works amazing in that role.

The Gauss is now a surgeon weapon, 15 DMG where you want it. Just need to be clever to make it work.

Besides Dual AC/5 is nearly as useful for those who don't like the charge mechanic. In fact I would almost say that triple AC/2 is the best weapon setup in the game.

I understand if you don't like Gauss but don't QQ and tell people its useless because its VERY far from useless.

And sometimes's it's HOW you used it.

Just dropped a match in my founders Atlas (meant to use the RS, oops!).

Multiple lights. Team suicides around me. Still manage to do respectable damage before going down. So reload, end up in similar scenario. Except team was a little better, so I wasn't facing the whole opfor at once.

I'm still a big slow ugly though. So I of course draw the wolfpack. Jenner, 2 Spider, Locust. Locust goes down 1 volley. First I 1) use my 4 medium pulse to take his leg off. Then I 2) put a Gauss round in his rear CT. Locust go spat.

Jenner get's the full monty in his face, 2 SSRM racks, 4 medium pulse, and yes, the Gauss, on a light mech in full run, at PBR. Next Gauss round I do indeed short charge (my fault, letting the Spders rattle me) but my streams and pulse lasers do their job, cripple the Jenner, random teammate killsteals it, lol. Would not be annoyed if the pud had stuck around to help swat the Spiders. I Gauss of one of their torsos, and am shocked that the doesn't have an XL (and that the hit actually registered).

At which point, more bad guys show up and I go down. So not a banner match. But one where I hit light mechs 6 out of 7 Gauss shots. All while being wolfpacked. Now if my overall aim was better at twitch fests, and I shot a few less arms instead of legs and torsos, might have killed at least one more. But THAT failure is on the operators skill, not the weapon mechanic being impossible to use.

What does that lesson remind me? 1) I hate Atlases because they are sooooooo darn slow, and 2) I hate Wolfpacks, especially in the current hit registry bugged status of the game.

What lesson did I not take? I never found myself cursing the Gauss for being ineffective. Though for this application, an AC10 or LB10X would be the better overall choice. Had I drawn Alpine though, in place of 2 matches in River City Night, then the Gauss would have been hands down the better weapon choice.

[Pariah Devalis]

I wish I was not at work, on a phone. Then I could actually use the quote feature. So here is the tl;dr reply:

Bishop is dead on.

Amsro is dead on.

Lightfoot, you may find it hard to aim within a second. If so, aim while charging. Me? I am accustomed to putting gauss slugs where I want it within about 3/4 a second. It's a tight timing fit, but totally doable. If I'm unsure about the shot, I'll aim when charging if I must. Either way, I crunch what I want on my target.

NRP. Just no. That about sums up my response to your whining. Even in a perfect situation it will not be perfect. Account for it in advance. Position your mech somewhere OTHER than the front lines. You got dumbass pugs? Use them as a sensor screen or bullet shield. Guess what? I do pug. Every time I play I put. I'm lucky to have one other person in my lance that I know. Even rarer still two, let alone a full lance. Nice assumption there, though. Stop blaming the weapon and look at your piloting habits. I know I do, which is how I learn how to use the tools I bring. Squares do not fit in round holes.

[WarHippy]

I'm not really a fan of the gauss right now. It isn't terribly hard to use, and it works really well in a dual gauss build(which is about the only time I see it anymore), but I do find it lack luster in a mixed build because it really interrupts the flow of combat. Overall my biggest complaint is the mechanic just isn't enjoyable to me.

Edited by WarHippy, 07 November 2013 - 12:15 PM.

[Shadey99]

I have the oddest experience with Gauss Rifles post-nerf/fix. I have zero problem using them in pairs from CQB range to ~800m. Beyond that my accuracy is low (Though I can hit targets up to 1600m with AC2s). Fired singly I find them useless, I have a better chance at hitting an ally with them than enemy mechs.

As an example I decided to try a Gauss Shadowhawk sniper with a ER PPC as a backup. Well the Gauss became the backup and I found it almost impossible to hit anyone not standing still with the Gauss, If I'm tracking a moving target going in and out of cover I always found I either shot the ground because I didn't want to waste my charge or I lost charge before a shot came up. Lucky for me I lost my arm with my PPC leaving me to try to finish the game on a single gauss rifle... The Jenner/Spider/Locust light squad cored me as they had half my team.

[Grimlox]

The problem I have with Gauss isn't that I can't use it, but rather there are many situations where I could hit with a tap to fire but can't with the charge mechanic (as a result of narrow windows of opportunity to hit) that I can't justify using a Gauss much anymore.

When you are facing skilled opponents there are very few opportunities you have them in your sights for long enough to make use of the Gauss effectively.

[NRP]

Pariah Devalis, on 07 November 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

NRP. Just no. That about sums up my response to your whining. Even in a perfect situation it will not be perfect. Account for it in advance. Position your mech somewhere OTHER than the front lines. You got dumbass pugs? Use them as a sensor screen or bullet shield. Guess what? I do pug. Every time I play I put. I'm lucky to have one other person in my lance that I know. Even rarer still two, let alone a full lance. Nice assumption there, though. Stop blaming the weapon and look at your piloting habits. I know I do, which is how I learn how to use the tools I bring. Squares do not fit in round holes.

Whining? LOL, whatever man. The gauss is not as useful as it used to be. The hero mechs that were designed around it are no longer as versatile as they were prior to the gauss change. Listening to your thinly veiled "learn to play" blather or others who regale us with tales of how they still wreck house with the new gauss doesn't change either of these two specific points.

[Pariah Devalis]

Of course the gauss rifle is not as good as it was before. This is a problem, why? Zero heat, 2k per sec travel speed, 15 point, zero drop projectile slinger and you want what else with it? To Julian potatoes and devil eggs? The weapon was too good before. It did everything better than everything before. Oh lordy, now we need to think in our thinking man's shooter.

And there is no question, you need to think if you want to use it.

The hero mechs designed with them function just fine in their intended role but suffer in brawls. I would call that working as intended.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 07 November 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

I'm not really a fan of the gauss right now. It isn't terribly hard to use, and it works really well in a dual gauss build(which is about the only time I see it anymore), but I do find it lack luster in a mixed build because it really interrupts the flow of combat. Overall my biggest complaint is the mechanic just isn't enjoyable to me.

this kind of comment I can get behind. Acknowledges that it is indeed workable, but that one doesn't like HOW it works. Big difference from "it's broken and sucks and blah blah blah". I'm pretty sure Pariah and I both acknowledge it is counter intuitive a mechanic, and that a longer charge window indeed would be good. That said it IS indeed still quite capable.

[Bishop Steiner]

NRP, on 07 November 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

The gauss is not as useful as it used to be.

This is correct. However, since the Gauss was ridiculously broken (as it has been since introduced in TT), that was kind of the point. It is now no longer the do anything stick. It, like everything else (except flamers and pulse lasers maybe... and their role is to drive us nuts, I think) has a role. In that role it works rather well, but takes some extra effort.

Not sure what the problem is. I do no previous to the de-sync, that every mech out there had 2 PPC and Gauss. Now they don't, but I still see plenty of people using both, supplemented with other weapons usually. Mission accomplished.

[DEN_Ninja]

So basically.. At least what I am getting from all this is...

Everyone is still trying to brawl with an obvious at range weapon system. At 660 max optimal range it still outclasses both the ER LL, ER PPC, and AC/2 the only weapons with high max optimal ranges in damage EVEN at their max optimal range. It also has the second longest max range meaning that the linear drop in damage doesn't really affect it until over 1KM still managing to hit with 7.5 damage at that point.

Listen if you are packing a gauss on a Victor or Highlander and trying to infight/brawl you are doing it wrong.

[Shadey99]

Tichorius Davion, on 07 November 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Listen if you are packing a gauss on a Victor or Highlander and trying to infight/brawl you are doing it wrong.

I find it absolutely useless at extreme ranges (as noted in my earlier comment), because the target likely isn't going to expose themselves long enough to finish firing the weapon. In shorter ranges (sub 500m) the enemy exposure is higher and so the rifle is more effective.

Sure the gauss rifle can be a 'sniper weapon' if the target is a {Dezgra} and leaves themselves exposed for long periods of time then sure it works well. It is horrible for quick distance shots against poptarts or ridge humpers who expose themselves for random short periods of time. In fact I've seen more poptarts lately (usually using PPCs) because a return PPC is often to slow to ever hit them and a gauss is unlikely to be charged when they go up.

[Pariah Devalis]

Shadey99, on 07 November 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

It is horrible for quick distance shots against poptarts or ridge humpers who expose themselves for random short periods of time. In fact I've seen more poptarts lately (usually using PPCs) because a return PPC is often to slow to ever hit them and a gauss is unlikely to be charged when they go up.

Not gonna argue this point at all. It is horrible at that. It requires an enemy to expose itself. Then again, I can usually clip a poptart by charging as it jumps up and unloading as it levels off or starts to drop. I then usually scream "PULL!" victoriously, but I digress. The flaw with the PPC mechs is that minimum range. I would easily wager 1/3 of them do not even remember it has a minimum range of 90 and does ziltch damage below that point. I wager that because no matter how many PPC, PPC, ERPPC, or PPC, PPC, AC10/20 mechs I charge, I still see far too many fire those cannons into me point blank.

It is a lot like when people took 6 PPC stalkers and I would walk up to their nose in my spider and cockpit them from 2 meters away as they blasted at me in confusion. Except far less hilarious and with far fewer cries of "HAX!"