18 replies to this topic

[Helvetika Kross]

Ok, not been playing very long but I have encountered an issue......
Namely camper-huddle teams. All go to centre of map, wanting to slug it out like "real men" or somesuch.
It's costing me some wins....namely A LOT. They always get flanked and smashed to death with utter ease.
My question is, what do I do in those situations? I run a Cicada and a Commando. It is REALLY starting to frustrate me, they just won't listen to any scouting reports and just won't react to being flanked.....

[Xeno Phalcon]

Helvetika Kross, on 22 September 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Ok, not been playing very long but I have encountered an issue......
Namely camper-huddle teams. All go to centre of map, wanting to slug it out like "real men" or somesuch.
It's costing me some wins....namely A LOT. They always get flanked and smashed to death with utter ease.
My question is, what do I do in those situations? I run a Cicada and a Commando. It is REALLY starting to frustrate me, they just won't listen to any scouting reports and just won't react to being flanked.....

Sorry to say aint no curing stupid, if your team wont listen to your reports and dosnt react to counter them then its no fault of yours but at the same time, there isnt much you can do about it. Best you can hope for is to team up with some folks on TS and such so you at least have a few people that don't have their heads stuffed into the sand hoping for a easy win.

[Kitane]

Few observations:

- Most pug herds will inevitably head to the first enemy mech spotted and locked. So the best way to bring an attention of your herdmates to a flanking mech is to detect him early and lock him. Some of your teammates will react to the new symbol trying to get to their side. If there are multiple flankers, rotate your lock quickly

- It also works the other way...you can sometimes redirect the enemy herd if you reveal yourself at right spot.

- Communicating their position in chat: "2 enemies in D4 flanking".

- The worst kind of flanking attacks happen with ECM shielded flanking groups. Chat is the only way to warn the others.

You can only do so much, so don't expect much from Pugs. If you really need a true cooperation, go find a unit .

[Tarl Cabot]

(nods) And unfortunately since you are running a light, there is no real way for others to follow on visual queues (such as being in an atlas. On the other hand, many may not be used to actually getting any type of information.

Example on Frozen City. Someone running through the caves run into several mechs, 1-2 running ECMs, and that person dies but fails to even report that at least 2 atlases +2 others are in the caves. We know that at least one ECM mech is in the cave since the pilot died but that is it. One or two of our mechs head for the end of the tunnel, not sure what to expect but run head on into 4+ mechs which quickly takes us both out.

Sad day.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 22 September 2013 - 08:55 AM.

[Earl White]

You can try to herd cats, but most of the time you will be disappointed.

[Rina Fujimoto]

I think your issue lies in the fact that you're trying to play in a Commando and Cicada, I mean the Cicada can be ok but still, you aren't going to be leading your team in those.

And honestly there isn't really anything you can do short of buying an assault mech and leading them around yourself, pubs follow the fattest mech they see at the start of the match, if they won't listen, they won't listen. The only tactic that's worked for me and wins me matches is to just carry the team myself and try to output as much damage as possible so that the pubs at least have a higher chance at actually killing something. Of course, like I said, it's not really something you can do in a Commando or Cicada. Scouting itself is kind of a dead and pointless role in this game outside of organized matches.

[Nick Makiaveli]

When I see this happening, I usually head to the enemy base and try to cap. Sometimes you might get lucky and sneak a win. Otherwise, try to turn a resource (don't hang around, turn it blue and run). Worst case you get a bit more c-bills.

To be clear, I start off as a team player. I don't shy from a fight, but if both our Assaults take off after a Commando, and half our lights ran off to an empty part of the map, yea I'm looking to score some quick points and start the next match.

[Royalewithcheese]

[Zordicron]

Yeah, this happens a lot. Whats worse is when you get put in with some CoD mindset kids and they try to sneak around the map to snipe or some BS. No teamwork, no focus fire, and they end up with BAD dmg ad the enemy doesnt take much. When it gets to a certain point in these matches, i usually just rambo in and discon after I splat everyone as much as possible and die.

Only thing I have seen work, sometimes, if nobody respondes to grid calls, just type in some directions, like "tey went water, lets go here" or something of that sort. if a few poeple go, it is better then nothing, and the fraidy cats will usually follow the crowd. Still, a lot of times they dont even do that.

[Ensaine]

Voice Comms are the way to go. It's not your mech, the chasis, none of it......Drop with some guys in Teamspeak, and you're golden, as long as the guys you drop with are experienced.

You can hit up the public Teamspeak servers, or any of the advertised private ones. Lastly, you can read my post, and follow up as you see fit....

http://mwomercs.com/...to-new-players/

There literally is a HUGE difference between dropping solo, and grouping in Voice Comms.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

I feel for you.

t's probably a stretch to describe your experience as a "camper-huddle team". Probably more accurate to say they are normal people that are not communicating, following what seems to be the most appropriate path - that of sticking together until they reach a choke-point - and then they mill about waiting for someone to go first - or decide what they ought to do. Without any leadership - this "team" then disintegrates into those that charge in and get destroyed, those that split off and get destroyed, and those that linger and get destroyed leaving those who have gone off to scout to decide whether to cap, hide, hit and fade or perish in a last stand.

For good leadership, you have to combine awareness (2 medium 'Mechs flanking D4) with decision-making (we need superior force to intercept and destroy without weakening our firing line) and communication ("you, you and you go and kill those two, the rest of us hold position and wait for the enemy counter attack").

The first relies on decent reports from scouts. Too often someone pings up a grid reference with nothing else. Get this wrong and half the team splits to chase a single enemy, weakening the firing line and allowing the enemy to roll over it. As a specialist scout, I'm sure you have that covered.

The second relies on a good understanding of what to do in any given circumstance - what works, and what doesn't. How the maps flow. How skillful your team is individually and how you compare to the enemy. Get this wrong and you attack through choke-points, allocate jobs to people with inadequate skills or inadequate equipment or become overstretched and allow your team to be capped, or picked off.

The third relies on you and your relationship with the team as well as clear communication skills. Hard enough over a comm with friends, much harder in text alone with strangers. Get this wrong and people ignore you, dissent, rebel - or do as you ask without challenging poor decisions.

Clearly the text chat hampers 1 and 3. Your experience and understanding limits 2. In a PUG, you will be lucky to get away with one order (eg. "Go upper city - stick together"), but any kind of micro-management is generally impossible with strangers using text, even on the bigger slower maps (Alpine, Tourmaline, Terra Therma).

Even with strong leadership, no-one wins all the time. How you handle a loss and learn from it is as much part of good teamwork as communication.

Blaming PUGs is pointless. I am certain that the large majority of the team are thinking "why do I get the stupid teams?" when they lose. I have seen people split off from the group then blame the group for not supporting them. I have seen people sticking with the group blaming others for not flanking, not scouting, or not returning to save the base. I am a bit fed up with people, who often don't communicate during the fight, wasting everyone's time by typing "GrumpyBob (Dead): Stupid team".

Blaming others seems to be simply denying the truth.

Be constructive during the game and enjoy the challenge of working with limited tools (text chat, strangers, unknown skills/builds) or be silent and enjoy the random nature of the ensuing chaos. It strikes me as a tremendous drain on everyone's enjoyment to say nothing during the game - wander off on your own - get destroyed - and then call everyone else a "muppet".

The ultimate expression of MWO ability may very well be the skill of leading a PUG group using nothing but text chat and the battlemap tools without using Teamspeak. Accomplish this and set-up a YouTube channel with "How to" guides and you will be feted as a MWO expert, a wonder and a marvel.

Otherwise you're just one of us. Someone who PUGs.

Edited by Dalziel Hasek Davion, 23 September 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[MadCat02]

Helvetika Kross, on 22 September 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Ok, not been playing very long but I have encountered an issue......
Namely camper-huddle teams. All go to centre of map, wanting to slug it out like "real men" or somesuch.
It's costing me some wins....namely A LOT. They always get flanked and smashed to death with utter ease.
My question is, what do I do in those situations? I run a Cicada and a Commando. It is REALLY starting to frustrate me, they just won't listen to any scouting reports and just won't react to being flanked.....

As a small mech you should only play conquest . You will win more games

Usualyl you want to bring long range weapons for poking games . However since you play lights your job is to run around and cap .

[Autobot9000]

There is only one answer to the OPs question: Don't drop with random people. I know it's sad, but there is no other way.

[jper4]

worst place for this is theta in terra therma. 8 mechs trying to all fit in a 3 mech wide space- until they get shot at then 8 mechs all trying to back away from each other in a 3 mech wide space. however in it's defense the groups that actually go INTO theta end up squashing the other side because they're spread out and can fire at multiple angles while the other team's 8 mechs in a 3 mech wide spot are doing the theta shuffle.

usually i either try to chase down the other 3 mechs not at theta, or will watch the flanks if they're too far gone, i only enter theta willingly 1) on conquest near the end if necessary, 2) we have a big numerical edge at the time or 3) the theta shuffle turns into a theta PUSH.

usually an enemy flanking light is the best way to start a flanking move on your own side. people tend to at least look towards the sounds of weapons fire so i can sometimes peel away 2 or 3 of the people at the back of my side's theta shuffle with the lure of something smaller than them to shoot at. once they are broken from the pack you've got a 50/50 chance of them seeing the advantage of moving in an area you CAN actually move in and turn into an actual flanking move of your own.

and then don;t forget at the end of the match when the 7 surviving mechs on 1 side are demanding the legged, weaponless spider left on the other side trying to live long enough for a points win on conquest (when still possible) come and meet them in their prefered spot to fight at or they are a "coward" for declining the "fair" fight offered to them

[GrandKlaive]

Yeah I would recommend going the conquest route most realize that light and mediums should cap. But you will still see some that will go straight to the center point and die. Hopefully you will have enough caps to be able to hold out for the win. I know that's what I did when I was leveling my Commando's. Also the Robinson Rangers Brigade is recruiting apply at http://rrb.enjin.com we are a casual gaming group that like to relax and have fun. If you apply tell them GK sent ya!

[Tremendous Upside]

Set aside a decent block of time and read/watch through this guide from Peefsmash...

http://mwomercs.com/...nue-to-improve/

Good tactics and concepts in there that'll help you understand how to play - regardless what the rest of your team ends up doing.

[Gralzeim]

When I see people all lined up to cram through one of the narrow passages to Theta on Terra Therma, I can't help but think of this sort of thing: http://www.penny-arc...omic/2012/11/05 Except replace "chopped up by tomahawk" with "blown apart with autocannons and lasers".

I...guess they're being unintentionally polite, at least?

Edited by Gralzeim, 23 September 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[DEMAX51]

Welcome to the woes of pugging, sir.

Do yourself a favor and get a group to play with. You can find a bunch of currently-recruiting groups on the forums' outreach section here, or just join up with the Ghost Warriors Brigade

[Helvetika Kross]

Thank you kindly for the helpful replies so far, I'll be watching Peef's video on my next day off:)