60 replies to this topic

[Recon777]

I'm a little confused about how XP works when it comes to building up your upgrades for a chassis. My understanding is that you need to get the basic upgrades for ALL of the variants of a chassis before you can get the elite ones, right? So what if one of the variants is a "Hero" mech which you can only buy with MC? Does that mean you can't get the Elite efficiencies unless you buy the hero?

Being that I am just starting out, and I have 10 million cbills, I am trying my best to figure out what chassis to buy as my first mech. I was hoping to find one which I enjoyed playing in the Stock configuration (i.e. does not suck) for a while, until I can afford to modify it, buy other variants, etc.

I know my first 10m was quick and easy to get, and that the next 10m is going to be a huge grind fest. So I am hoping to get a mech that I will be really happy with. I've been playing with the trial mechs, and I enjoy the new batch much more than the ones from a few days ago. The Jenner-F is lots of fun, but I don't get many points with it. The Dragon is great, and I've been more productive with that. The Atlas is more of a "jack of all trades" with its various weapons, and it definitely lasts longer in battle, at least for me.

Personally I was thinking a light mech would not be a good starter mech because I want something I can get some kills in and be productive with. Since I am a PUG (I just learned that term), I don't have a team to really support and work with. So I just do the best I can with what I got. A medium mech, I'm not really sure about either, as they seem to get owned rather quickly but aren't fast enough to be really great scouts. A heavy seems much better. An assault mech is probably too expensive for a first chassis, and I don't think I want to spend all my time in a really slow mech anyway.

Mostly I'm a bit worried about making the wrong purchasing decision and having to grind for over a week to earn the next chassis, in a mech I'm not happy with. For a couple days I've been thinking about getting a Cat K2 as my first mech, and playing it stock with the PPCs until I can afford to go either Gauss or AC20 with it. That, and I think the Catapult variants are useful enough to make it worth going for the Elite upgrades.

Mostly I'm asking about the Elite stuff because it will help me decide on a starter chassis. I know it really depends on the play style a person wants to use. I really like long range play and sneaky scouting play. So a light speedy mech or something with LRMs or Gauss is probably more to my taste. I seem to be rather bad at holding a laser steady on the target for the duration of the shot too. But I'm not familiar enough with the different mechs in this game to know if there's a good fit for me. Anybody got some ideas? Plus an answer to my original question? Thanks.

[Redshift2k5]

You don't need the basics for "all" of the mechs, but you need at least 3. Hero mechs can count towards your 3, but are not required; three C-bill variants is fine.

Heavies can be good to start with, but it will take longer to get buy them. It's hard to say what mech would do you best since you say you like fast scouts and you like LRM/long range, two very different things. The K2 is a pretty solid choice for a first mech and it will serve you well for the long-term since it's such a versatile, solid chassis; but if you invest in the K2, you'll need two more Catapults and that means using LRMs or SRMs

[NaZotH]

Hi,

You need 3 variants not all.

[Kaijin]

It really is a horrible grind. The XP grind is made much less painless with premium, but the c-bill grind for new chassis' and upgrades isn't mitigated much at all with premium. If you want to duck the grind, you've got to give IGPGI dollars to buy MC so you can buy your chassis' that way.

You only need 3 variants of a mech to advance to Master. Finishing out all the basic skills on 3 variants unlocks the elite skills on all of them. Finishing out all of the elite skills on 3 variants of the same mech unlocks the extra module slots (Master).

I recommend Jenners or Catapults. Jenners will be cheaper, You can't put a GR on one, but you could put a PPC on one. Also, the JR7-D has two missile hardpoints in the CT. SSRM-2s are fairly useful now against other lights. The Catapults, C1, C4, and K2, give you the option of using every type of weapon system. Avoiding the A1 for now would be my advice, as LRMs are only useful if they are used with both Artemis and TAG. The A1 has no energy slots, and so cannot mount TAG.

[Recon777]

I suppose I should keep playing with the trial Jenner-F while its available, and see if I can gain some satisfaction from it. Jenner is definitely fun but I'm not really sure what to DO with it, since light mechs don't really do much damage no matter how you slice it.

The Catapult seems like it may be the best chassis for me, but I only say that because I know more about it than other ones. There are many chassis in this game which I know absolutely nothing about, so I can't tell if I'd like them as much as the Cat.

I really think I'd enjoy the Boom-Cat (dual AC20's) or the Gauss-Cat.. But is the stock K2 a decent mech too? I think the best choice for me as a new player is to play a stock mech for a bit to get a feel for it before getting into modding. Problem is, I hear many stock mechs really suck.

Thanks for the info about the Elite upgrades! Its good to know I don't have to buy any hero mechs. I'd prefer to play the game with my only real money going toward mech bays. Hoping to eventually have quite a few of them. I'd prefer to not spend real money on mechs though.

[Flitzomat]

NaZotH, on 19 September 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Hi,

You need 3 variants not all.

This it is. Some say "I am fine with basic skills and then go on to the next mech". I don´t share that opinion because: 1st you double your basics when you reach elite (one mech is enough, don´t need 3 on elite). 2nd the more you progress in the game the more you will understand how to use modules in a meaningful way and then the master slot comes in handy.

I wouldn´t go for the Catapults. They are wonderful mechs, I love them but although the LRMs appeal to be easy for new players I disagree. The LRM variants are best played in a medium distance (especially with the agile, jump jet equipped Cat) of 180-500m and this is really tough as a beginner. Dumping LRMs from 900m doesn´t help except for some certain spots on some maps (line of sight: alpine, forest colony water, tourmaline). The K2 is good too but especially when playing with balistics you have to expose your Center Torso a lot. The CT is critical on the Cats anyways because it always gets hit. As consequene you have to torso twist (to spread damage) like crazy, and release your shots into target anyways, and this is hard as a beginner

I would go with the dragon as your first Mech (well it has a big CT too...). You can try all different weapons with it and it is cool Also you can make a realy fast build out of it if (but keep in mind, being fast does not mean running towards the enemy, dying. The dragon is fast so that it can move quickly within your team/fireline to support the flank that needs the additional firepower most).

Endo steel and DHS should be in (almost, rare exceptions) all your Mechs, armour I wouldn´t upgrade. And you can always change weapons and engines in between your Mechs. In the beginning this always requires a bit of construction work when changing a mech but as long as you keep playing one variant at a time this is managable (+after you have your 1st variant on Basic, you should have earned enough to buy the next one, after you have mastered 3 you should have enough to move on to the next mech type)

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

Recon777, on 19 September 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

Being that I am just starting out, and I have 10 million cbills, I am trying my best to figure out what chassis to buy as my first mech. I was hoping to find one which I enjoyed playing in the Stock configuration (i.e. does not suck) for a while, until I can afford to modify it, buy other variants, etc.

You may want to invest immediately in double heat sinks (1.5m C-Bills). Even for stock loadouts, this is probably a bare minimum upgrade. I would suggest factoring the cost into your chassis buying decision.

Quote

I know my first 10m was quick and easy to get, and that the next 10m is going to be a huge grind fest.

The average round is 8 minutes long and nets a player 80,000 C-Bills. As your skill improves this can increase, perhaps even double. Premium time (costing real money) adds 50% to your earnings. A hero mech (costing real money) adds 30% to your earnings. These can help reduce the grind. If you are playing to earn C-Bills, then it is suggested that you quit the game as soon as you die and jump in another one. Stats suggest this doubles the rate of earnings.

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Personally I was thinking a light mech would not be a good starter mech because I want something I can get some kills in and be productive with. Since I am a PUG (I just learned that term), I don't have a team to really support and work with. So I just do the best I can with what I got. A medium mech, I'm not really sure about either, as they seem to get owned rather quickly but aren't fast enough to be really great scouts. A heavy seems much better. An assault mech is probably too expensive for a first chassis, and I don't think I want to spend all my time in a really slow mech anyway.

Light 'Mechs are expensive to upgrade. To get the best from them takes investment in an XL engine, endo-steel, sometimes ferro-fibrous armour. When you add it up, the chassis, DHS, a new XL engine and endo-steel can set you back 10m C-Bills. On the other hand, a heavy 'Mech seldom needs an XL engine (Dragons and Catapults are, perhaps, the exception), definitely not ferro fibrous armour and some can do without endo-steel as well. You might find a heavy/assault 'Mech with DHS requires about the same investment as a fully upgraded light.

My opinion is that, for new pilots, the order of increasing difficulty is Heavy -> Assault -> Light -> Medium. Mediums are hardest because they are fast enough to get into trouble first, but not fast enough to escape trouble as easily as lights, cannot carry the weapon load or armour of heavy and assaults. Heavies are better than assaults because they are more versatile and faster. Piloting an Atlas well takes time to learn - a Catapult is more forgiving. Lights struggle to score damage/points until the pilot has become extremely adept at the movement techniques required to succeed.

Quote

Mostly I'm a bit worried about making the wrong purchasing decision and having to grind for over a week to earn the next chassis, in a mech I'm not happy with. For a couple days I've been thinking about getting a Cat K2 as my first mech, and playing it stock with the PPCs until I can afford to go either Gauss or AC20 with it. That, and I think the Catapult variants are useful enough to make it worth going for the Elite upgrades.

The CPLT is a decent starting chassis. The C1 and C4 are probably best with LRMs - so if you want to move up the skill trees, you should be happy with the style of play that comes with those. Not everyone likes LRMing. The A1 can be an LRM platform, but also can boat short-range missiles. It's a specialist platform and the weapon pods are very vulnerable. The K2 has a number of interesting builds available. All CPLTs have small side torsos and so can run XL engines without too much reduction in battlefield longevity. CPLTs are not really a ballistic platform (the K2 is OK, but a bit light for dual GRs or big ACs). However for missile play - a good start.

For ballistics, then a Jagermech or Cataphract are good. The Jager is less robust, but faster and has weapon points higher on the 'Mech which is good for sniping. The CTF is a low-armed slugger, probably best-suited for direct fire support.

Anyway - you are very welcome. Good luck with your choice.

Check out Smurfy's Mechlab and mechspecs.com to have a look at the chassis and different rated loadouts.

[Redshift2k5]

Recon777, on 19 September 2013 - 03:11 AM, said:

I suppose I should keep playing with the trial Jenner-F while its available, and see if I can gain some satisfaction from it. Jenner is definitely fun but I'm not really sure what to DO with it, since light mechs don't really do much damage no matter how you slice it.

The Catapult seems like it may be the best chassis for me, but I only say that because I know more about it than other ones. There are many chassis in this game which I know absolutely nothing about, so I can't tell if I'd like them as much as the Cat.

I really think I'd enjoy the Boom-Cat (dual AC20's) or the Gauss-Cat.. But is the stock K2 a decent mech too? I think the best choice for me as a new player is to play a stock mech for a bit to get a feel for it before getting into modding. Problem is, I hear many stock mechs really suck.

Thanks for the info about the Elite upgrades! Its good to know I don't have to buy any hero mechs. I'd prefer to play the game with my only real money going toward mech bays. Hoping to eventually have quite a few of them. I'd prefer to not spend real money on mechs though.

Watch Edmeister play on the NGNG TV stream; He performs very well in a Jenner, racking up lots of kills and damage. PGI's community Manager, Garth Erlam, also does well in a Cicada which you can see a few times a week on the IGP Twitch stream.

Lights can do a few things: You can scout to find the enemy, you can spot for allied LRM boats, and you can flank/harass. Spotting is best performed with special equipment (TAG, NARC, and some modules) but otherwise scouting and then harassing can be performed by just about any fast Light (like the current trial Jenner). The key is to rely on your mobility; never stand still to land a shot, never hang around when you're under fire. Keep running.

The stock K2 is ok, good for a "stock" mech but you will want to begin upgrading as soon as you can afford it. Double Heat Sinks first, then a 300xl engine; then any weapons you want, it's hard to build a K2 wrong.

[Recon777]

mmmm All very good points to consider. I won't pretend to know what's best, so I am still studying my options. I haven't found much documentation on the Dragon yet, but since there's one in the current Trial Mechs, I get a chance to play with it some. Two Large Lasers + Gauss, makes for an effective, but simple weapon solution. The mech itself seems fairly fast and agile so maybe I will consider this for my first.

[Flitzomat]

One more thing I think the Dargon is the better beginers mech (sry Dalziel, I agree with everything you say but not on this ):
It can move its arms --> complicated in the begining but one day you have to learn it to become a great pilot. (Remove hook in options if you havent done this to be able to use your arms seperately)

[Redshift2k5]

Here's another great link: Smurfy mechlab. This will allow you to play around with builds and loadout without needing to own a mech. Give it a whirl! It also contains a comprehensive list of mech hardpoints and other vital statistics

[Flitzomat]

Oh and to contradict Redshift: Yes you can get your kills etc. with lights but you have to be a good player. I personally started with the Cicadas and it was very tough. Now I realy enjoy them and get my kills etc. but in the beginning, meh... on the other hand: Mastering all of them was a realy painful but effective training for all the rest.
Getting your Cbills with lights is good when having a lot of assists. Problem is: As beginner you tend to get blown away while trying to get your assists, You need to know your ways/escape routes etc. to be able to come out alive.
Tag etc. only gives you C.-bills and XP if you have LRMs on your team, you cant do much about your teammates and their loadouts except youre not pugging (what you are). So TAG is not a stable source of income (but absolutely required just in case you have LRMs with you)).

EDIT: Oh and press R, no matter what you do please press R. Look at the enemy mech model, check where he is wounded most and aim at that spot.
It also gives you spotting assists.
When there are 4man groups on your team / aware spectators they can use this information to inform their (your) teammates which enemy to target and where to hit him

Edited by Flitzomat, 19 September 2013 - 03:52 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

I never said you couldn't get kills! You just don't want to be the center of attention. The key is avoiding fire long enough to get the kill- Try shooting them in the back or running circles around them when they're already engaged. A new light pilot shouldn't run in and think he can murder anything bigger than he is, but it is something to aspire to.

[Flitzomat]

Redshift2k5, on 19 September 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

The key is avoiding fire long enough to get the kill- Try shooting them in the back or running circles around them when they're already engaged.

You got me wrong (cause I agree that you can get kills) but you are totally right how to get them in a light. I still think that this tip is easier being said as done for a new pilot. Sometimes you want something to get that kill (especially if you are new, right?), e.g. a Gauss on a DRAGON

[Flitzomat]

Recon777, on 19 September 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

I haven't found much documentation on the Dragon yet, but since there's one in the current Trial Mechs, I get a chance to play with it some.

BTW, In case you didn´t know: all the XP you gathered on a trial mech will be available for distribution as soon as you buy that mech.

Edited by Flitzomat, 19 September 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[Recon777]

I know for me, pressing R and getting the info on his damage is usually too much information for me to process while I'm trying to survive and navigate at the same time. I suppose that will become second nature eventually, but right now, I have a hard time translating the readout into knowledge about where exactly to hit him.

In the Jenner tonight, maybe an hour ago, I found it very useful for Conquest, and was able to race to a corner of the map with another Jenner and start capping. However we very quickly found ourselves engaged by two other lights, and then suddenly it was a rapid circling match, and trying to survive or take them out before either of our supporting teams showed up. His team showed up first and I had to get out fast, but the lights pursued me and ended up outgunning me. Lights are definitely a skill to get used to. I don't think I will get a light as my first chassis.

[Euphor Kell]

personally, my first mech was the dragon, its a good, decent beginners mech, but i've since sold it.
they're good at running around the outside of the enemy force, harrassing them (make sure you got arm lock OFF! its the dragons greatest boon!) because the dragon, with its large torso twist, and insane arm reach can nearly shoot behind itself, while the side torsos are small enough to let you get away with an XL engine without worrying about dying early (most hits to a dragon are at the Centre Torso because of how huge it is) and because XL is an easy choice, it allows you to go quicker than most heavies, or mount bigger guns than others (not more of them because the dragon is limited in its hardpoints)

oh, the reason i sold the dragon was because i couldn't dish out the damage fast enough for my liking, the Yen-Lo-Wang came out, and i found my home - so to speak- and from there went to the victors.

if you like the harass ability for lights though, you may want to consider the mechs able to mount ECM: COM-2D, SDR-5D, RVN-3L.
of those, the only one i kept was the Raven 3L, but that said, the damn thing cost me nearly 14,000,000 CB to buy and upgrade, nets me usually 300 damage per match, and as much as 700 sometimes, and i don't profess to be the best light pilot around, i'm sure some of my lancemates could do even better...

but yeah, make sure you check out Smurfys mechlab, and play around with a few designs, it shows you how much the mech will cost in total, which may be a little surprise sometimes (case in point, that 3L, base cost of 6M, final cost near 14 if i don't sell the old engine - which by the way, don't do, since they can be swapped into other mechs free of charge later)

one other thing to consider is the project pheonix... if you have the cash lying about, its probably the easiest and safest ways to enter MWO, it gives you three chassis of the same type (exactly the amount you need to gain Elite efficiencies on) and are relatively cheap compared to the mechs that you can buy for real money (all other costs considered)

Edited by Euphor Kell, 19 September 2013 - 04:37 AM.

[Recon777]

Yes I definitely use Smurfy's Mechlab. Been studying the various combos for a few days now, trying to figure out what I like the most. Its a very good tool, but unfortunately you still can't get a good "feel" for test driving it. Sometimes theory is good but just not good enough. Currently playing more with the trial Dragon to become accustomed to the role of the Heavy and get that cemented in my mind. Then I'll have to decide between the Dragon or maybe a Cat or maybe something else. Good info.

Also, wow I didn't know your XP from trial mechs got saved up for your purchased one. Awesome.

[Flitzomat]

Recon777, on 19 September 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

I know for me, pressing R and getting the info on his damage is usually too much information for me to process while I'm trying to survive and navigate at the same time. I suppose that will become second nature eventually, but right now, I have a hard time translating the readout into knowledge about where exactly to hit him.

I know, its hard in the beginning, but as I said, dead spectators can inform their teammates if they are watching you play. Also LRMs can use your target lock to fire LRMs even if they don´t have line of sight and yuo get the "spot target" reward.
So even if you are not able to proces the information just yet, do it anyways to help your team.

EDIT: Actually the Spot target reward is also given for all other weapon types if you are the first to provide the target information while the mech is being hit (or smth like this)

Edited by Flitzomat, 19 September 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[Caswallon]

Recon777, on 19 September 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

In the Jenner tonight, maybe an hour ago, I found it very useful for Conquest, and was able to race to a corner of the map with another Jenner and start capping. However we very quickly found ourselves engaged by two other lights, and then suddenly it was a rapid circling match, and trying to survive or take them out before either of our supporting teams showed up. His team showed up first and I had to get out fast, but the lights pursued me and ended up outgunning me. Lights are definitely a skill to get used to. I don't think I will get a light as my first chassis.

Well observed sir. Yeah lights are different in this game to its predecessors before they were the cheap "intro Mech" but here they can take a LOT of expensive upgrading to be good and require a different play style to most other classes.

That said I hope you come back to them as they can be very rewarding once you get comfortable in them! Remember the BEST defence bar none, is not to get hit, and that is what good lights try for with there high speed runs.

Start with a Heavy as some have already said. Not played one myself yet but the Orion looks a solid all rounder in the Heavy class on paper.