35 replies to this topic

[Denolven]

Jaegerwulf, on 22 September 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

I am asking advice on, which other role(s) I might do well with based on my descriptions in my OP.

Since you are used to long range combat and want to get a foot in brawling, I suggest those three, depending on how much brawl you want:

Blackjack. The BJ-1 and BJ-3 are basically mid to long range supporters with decent speed (up to 93) and good versatility (high mounted arms, JumpJets). The BJ-1X has no JJ, but is alot faster (up to 117). All BJs are not tough enough to be in long brawls, but fast and agile enough to pick your fights, or retreat when things get ugly. So you can gradually try out getting more and more involved, while still having your long range style as a fallback.

If the BJ is not enough brawling, go for the Trebuchet, which is another hybrid. My favourite is the 5J, because I love JJ. But the other variants are nice too. They are a bit more stable than the Blackjack, due to the "proper" arms. And all of them can use mid/long range support weaponry for those times when going into a brawl is not a good idea. Speed (up to 117, 130 for one variant) and possibly JJ help you to pick fights.

For the full brawl experience, the Centurion is probably the best thing available, but also the slowest. It's not an I win button, but has alot of potential and basically is considered THE brawler in the medium weight class. Biggest downside is that you won't have any versatility (low speed, no JJ, likely no mid/long range weaponry as you'll probably use all close range weaponry). It's a specialist, but certainly a competent one.

Edited by Denolven, 25 September 2013 - 03:46 AM.

[Jaegerwulf]

Okay I have decided to give centurions a solid go, so which 3 cent variants should I work towards?

[SethAbercromby]

The only Centurion I am currently familiar with is the Yen-Lo-Wang which is a very "unique" experience compared to the other Centurions. Most people prefer using the AC/20 for brawling with some minor tweaks like FF DHS (noticed that ferro is not as good as I hoped it'd be. Not enough armor for too much space) and Endo to carry some more armor (pointless because Yen-Lo already has max armor (-2 points but that's negligible)) and ammo or to improve the engine. I have found myself gravitating towards a dual AC/5 build with a smaller engine but thick armor (see above) for a more balanced all-range build.

AC/20 Brawler
Do whatever you like with the 0.5 tons left. Drop the case for another ton of ammo or one more heat sink, improve the engine to a 220 (but it would hardly make a difference for high costs so that's rather pointless) or shave off 0.5 tons of armor if you wish to keep the case. The reason I put the ammo into the right torso is because that's where your enemies are gonna shoot you if they know what the're doing. Rather than taking the risk of having unused ammo once your weapon's gone, it's best to have it explode with the torso for good if it decides to blow anyways. The CASE will prevent damage from leaking over into your CT (even though it has once managed to detonate one of my medium lasers mounted in the CT for some ungodly reason).

Dual AC/5 Fire Support
Loads and loads of ammo (drop the AMS and case if you're really daring and that's 2 tons extra). You can pretty much activate chain fire and hold down the trigger for the entire fight. Interestingly, the 2 medium lasers in the CT are not affected by chain fire and will shoot simultaneously, allowing for proper pinpoint damage while hammering continuous AC/5 fire onto the enemy. You're still pretty fast with an STD 180 and since your enemy will have a hard time seeing anything from all those AC/5 rounds exploding in his face, he's gonna have a hard time shooting at you anyways. CASE in right torso for the same reason as above. If it blows, let it take the parts you can afford to loose without dying. Once it's gone you won't need those AC/5s anyways.

Edited by SethAbercromby, 27 September 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[Jaegerwulf]

Okay I wanted to add some anecdotal evidence to see if that can help you guys advise me here (btw so far there have been really good responses, I am just still having issues deciding stuff)

so lately I have been trying to not so much follow the pack as picking an assault and trying to follow him (or her). when the assault pilot knows what he is doing or at least what he wants to do, I find that I have reasonable success in waiting for him to engage and then peek around and add my fire to his target.

conversely, if I try to just peek over a ridge line to snipe at a distance or try to get close enough to use the srm's on the cn9-a trial mech, I get pounded. in the case of the sniping attempts it is mostly getting pounded by enemy mechs that aren't showing up on my radar yet (no red triangles at all)

finally I have purchased the guardian tier and saber package for project phoenix.

this addition to the thread (and my op for those who are just now comming to this topic) brings me to the following questions

-what mech(s) should I add and what role does what I have describe in this new post (and edit to my op) indicate?

-should I add any mechs to my hanger now or wait for the project phoenix mechs to arrive in october?

-as I seem to be having success when I support an assault or another heavy, at about mid range, what weapons, and what gxp unlockable modules should I be considering?

thank you all for your patience with me in trying to figure out how to be a better mechwarrior

[SethAbercromby]

If you want to stick to the second line and follow an assault 'Mech, you might find reasonable success in a Stalker 3F (or 5S if you're willing to pay 3 million extra for dual AMS) which is an assault 'Mech designed for all-range fire support. Since you are driving an assault it is less tempting to charge straight into the fray to test those SRM6s but instead hold your ground and let them come for you. I had a nice match where I poked the flank of our enemy team with ER Large Lasers (from far outside their sensor range and none of them had weapons capable of shooting from a 1300 meters distance) while our main force kept pounding on them with everything they had and me throwing Missile Salvos at everything that received a targeting lock until we had a firm upper hand on the location and caused them to break formation. When a few of the now largely uncoordinated 'Mechs got dangerously close to our base, I moved back to assist in the defense. While everything kept pounding on me, a light (probably a jenner) and a medium 'Mech contributed to the destruction of a Stalker, a Heavy 'Mech I was unable to identify and an Atlas (which managed to get the best of the critically damaged me and our medium friend just before we were able to bring it down).

The build I'm using: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...272ecb2a5c75917

You might like the phoenix project Shadow Hawk as well which also focuses on fire support but paired with high mobility.

[Koniving]

I normally do these huge helpful posts that maybe a handful of people read... But I'll be quick here.

As far as what mechs to focus on -- if you know what mechs are NOT part of Kurita's main arsenal, those are the mechs you should focus on.

With CW, it will be harder to acquire "exotic" or foreign mechs that belong to other factions without taking over their plants. Therefore an intelligent entrepreneur will be collecting them before the Black Market gets bloated prices when Community Warfare gets going. Here's a good portion of the vid introducing the upcoming aspects of the game (note that I missed Lone Wolves due to an ad, but essentially they sounded like Mercs without a group). Economy is somewhere in the middle, and it explains the thing I mentioned on foreign mechs.

[Koniving]

(Posted on the wrong thread. Removed and placed on the correct thread (added at the bottom of this linked post. Pay no mind.)

Edited by Koniving, 29 September 2013 - 09:20 AM.

[Jaegerwulf]

Koniving, on 29 September 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

As far as what mechs to focus on -- if you know what mechs are NOT part of Kurita's main arsenal, those are the mechs you should focus on.

Just curious, why focus on Non Kurita mechs?

[Koniving]

Jaegerwulf, on 29 September 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

Just curious, why focus on Non Kurita mechs?

Thought it had you as a Kuritan / Draconis Combine. Whatever faction you're a part of or plan to work towards, get mechs from the other factions first. In the explanation of CW, initially the mechs that Belong to your faction (example: for Liao, the Cataphracts belong mainly to the Liaos) will be easier to buy for you and harder for anyone else to buy.

Once CW hits, the price of Cataphracts for Liaos either goes down, or the price for it for non-liaos will go way up. After all you will be "buying it from the black market."

Now, later on you can change this by taking over the planet with the factories for Cataphracts. This will make it harder for Liao to have them and easier for you to do so. If repair and rearm were implemented this would matter that much more. But since it's not, it'll only affect your ability to buy them.

I found the specific moment to watch for. Click here for the explanation from the upcoming community warfare reveal.

Edited by Koniving, 29 September 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[xengk]

Jaegerwulf, on 29 September 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Okay I wanted to add some anecdotal evidence to see if that can help you guys advise me here (btw so far there have been really good responses, I am just still having issues deciding stuff)

so lately I have been trying to not so much follow the pack as picking an assault and trying to follow him (or her). when the assault pilot knows what he is doing or at least what he wants to do, I find that I have reasonable success in waiting for him to engage and then peek around and add my fire to his target.

conversely, if I try to just peek over a ridge line to snipe at a distance or try to get close enough to use the srm's on the cn9-a trial mech, I get pounded. in the case of the sniping attempts it is mostly getting pounded by enemy mechs that aren't showing up on my radar yet (no red triangles at all)

-as I seem to be having success when I support an assault or another heavy, at about mid range, what weapons, and what gxp unlockable modules should I be considering?

thank you all for your patience with me in trying to figure out how to be a better mechwarrior

Sounds like you are playing the Direct Support Fire role or second line fighter.
I think you already have the best heavy for the role.

If you are interested in medium, the majority of them are build for that role.
The Breadknife 3.0 BJ3 that I have currently piloting is a cheap introductory mech (5.5mil Cbil).
It runs a stock STD180 pushing at 65kph without speedtweak, enough speed to keep up with assault but not accidentally outrun them to your death. Armed with 2 LLaz and 1 ERLaz lets you poke at long range as you move up to the brawl and 14 DHS keep you cool enough to alternate between the 2 weapon group in near brawl range.
It has almost max amour (288/306) for some staying power, but won't save you if you are caught in a brawl though.
AMS provide missile cover yourself and the Assault/Heavy you are following, but you are free to remove it to either add more DHS and armour.

Module-wise, I go with Info Gather to quickly scan a target for weakness and aim for those component, Seismic to know if anyone is sneaking up on me or a Coolshot for emergency.

[Jaegerwulf]

xengk - and how would the shadowhawk, and later the wolverine and griffin fit for direct support fire or second line fighter? (and for that matter the thunderbolt)

[xengk]

Jaegerwulf, on 29 September 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

xengk - and how would the shadowhawk, and later the wolverine and griffin fit for direct support fire or second line fighter? (and for that matter the thunderbolt)

I have also purchase the Phoenix and Saber pack, will have to wait until the mechs are out to properly build a working model.

As for theorycrafting;
this is what I planned for my Griffin
GRF-1N
It will be a LRM direct support mech, like how I pilot my HBK-4J.
Keep to 300m-500m from the brawl and launch LRMs on target the team is targeting. 3x MLaz as point defend if any light or fast medium is trying to rush you. But your teammates will be your best defend, so it is best to stick close to the brawl.
Once ammo runs out, the lazer will be my only weapon. Use the empty left side to soak damage as much as possible.

The Wolverine will be a heavier Clint for me.
WVR-6R
2x AC/5 and 3x LRM5 to shake up target and reduce their efficiency at shooting at back me or my teammates.

My Thunderbolt will probably be a straight up brawler
TDR-5S
The LBX10 will be interchangeable with the AC/10 as I get more familiar with the mech.

Edited by xengk, 29 September 2013 - 10:21 PM.

[SethAbercromby]

xengk, on 29 September 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

this is what I planned for my Griffin
GRF-1N
It will be a LRM direct support mech, like how I pilot my HBK-4J.
Keep to 300m-500m from the brawl and launch LRMs on target the team is targeting. 3x MLaz as point defend if any light or fast medium is trying to rush you. But your teammates will be your best defend, so it is best to stick close to the brawl.
Once ammo runs out, the lazer will be my only weapon. Use the empty left side to soak damage as much as possible.

If you're gonna try to stick to a range 0f 300-500 meters, you might want to stick to the PPC (maybe upgrade to ER so you have no minimum range as well as an increased maximum range). I think 2 LRM10s in a 10 tube launcher are overrated anyways.

[Itsalrightwithme]

Koniving, on 29 September 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

I normally do these huge helpful posts that maybe a handful of people read... But I'll be quick here.

May I suggest that you keep an external website somewhere that you can put up your various guides/posts? It's a shame they are so hard to find. With an external website you can curate them, list them by section, etc.

I, for one, has had to go back whenever I think, "Didn't Koniving make a comprehensive post on Highlanders? Damn, where is it?" When it was posted, I wasn't interested in Highlanders, but now that I am, it's hard to find. If only Koniving kept a website listing "Guides to Assault Mechs" and "How to make Awesomes Awesome", etc.

[xengk]

SethAbercromby, on 30 September 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

If you're gonna try to stick to a range 0f 300-500 meters, you might want to stick to the PPC (maybe upgrade to ER so you have no minimum range as well as an increased maximum range). I think 2 LRM10s in a 10 tube launcher are overrated anyways.

I tried sticking PPC in for the griffin.
Personally I think having only 1 is a waste of weight and space, running 2 will require a heavy investment in DHS which I think this chassis will have problem supporting. It will still run pretty hot and still virtually defenseless up close, ERPPC will just make matter worst.
Plus I already have an 8Q filling the PPCboat role, and have to be stuffed with 19 DHS to stay relatively cool.

This is the best compromise that I would accept for me is this GRF-1N.

2x LRM10 in 10 tubes still comes out in wave of 10/10 missiles.
A single AMS can shot down 3~4 missile per volley, so that is still 12~14 missile hitting the target for 13 to 15 damage, Artemis will pack those damage closer to the CT. That is almost a Gauss shot to the chest.
If there are more than one AMS, pick another target. If everyone is packing AMS, tough luck try coordinate with teammate to Lurmswarm a target.

Edited by xengk, 30 September 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[Koniving]

Itsalrightwithme, on 30 September 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

May I suggest that you keep an external website somewhere that you can put up your various guides/posts? It's a shame they are so hard to find. With an external website you can curate them, list them by section, etc.

I, for one, has had to go back whenever I think, "Didn't Koniving make a comprehensive post on Highlanders? Damn, where is it?" When it was posted, I wasn't interested in Highlanders, but now that I am, it's hard to find. If only Koniving kept a website listing "Guides to Assault Mechs" and "How to make Awesomes Awesome", etc.

Zhizhu admin WayBadMojo wanted me to do that. I began collecting stuff but after a month of not posting anything (I did say why) he shut it down and told me he'll open it up again when I can get something on it the same day.