128 replies to this topic

[Lykaon]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 November 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

I am so happy for you "I pug and I do Fine " People.

I pug and I do fine also...

But its not about me, not about you. Its about retaining new players. A serious issue directly related to the long life of the game.

Man, Density to the max with the self centered.

You are making an assumption that all new player will be puggies. Or at the very least that an sizable majority of new players will be puggies and remain solo until they quit in frustration.

I started MWo 15 months ago.I began in closed beta by shopping for a player run organization to join.I never had the intent to be a PUG for life or try to play a team oriented game without a team.

I do PUG and almost half the time I am solo.

You are however dead on correct that MWo needs more social tools and a built in VOIP.There needs to be an easy way for players to form groups communicate as a team and if they choose join merc corps and house units (that we will have with CW).With out these tools we will lose players to frustration and this can be largley avoided by veterans mentoring newbies and for that we need to be able to communicate!

[Mudhutwarrior]

Troutmonkey, on 17 November 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

Bah, I don't want to join a group. They'd get fed up because I stop every 3 or so games to browse the forums for half an hour.
Anyway the thread is "Becoming Unplayable For Pugs". The moment I join a group I'm no longer a PUG player. We need something that will work for the average player who isn't attuned to configuring a TeamSpeak server (or Vent, or Mumble).

They always miss that one don't they? Its tough to argue logic with any one size fits all groupthink.

[Lykaon]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 November 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

They always miss that one don't they? Its tough to argue logic with any one size fits all groupthink.

Missed what ?

Was it that Some players who can't be bothered to focus on playing more than 2-3 games before running off to forums have such strong opinions on how to play a game they rarely play?

Or was it that a solution to being unplayable for puggies is not being a puggie? It's like saying I hate getting electrocuted but I won't stop chewing on the cables.

Wait I know I missed out on the whole point of this bitchfest was to have something to gripe about without any desire for finding solutions,was that what I missed?

Here are the facts We do not have VOIP support within MWO now.We do not have it in the works or on the horizon.VOIP as an intergrated part of MWO is not coming soon!

VOIP use is a very potent tool when applied correctly.Comms are awesome they will win games when used properly.

If you want to improve your win ratio using VOIP is the single easyest way to meet that goal.

If you want to learn tactics and strategy from 1 year+ veterans VOIP is the easyest way to meet that goal.

If you want to gripe **** and moan on the forums about getting stomped by VOIP users then NOT using VOIP is the best way to meet that goal.


I agree with you that intergrated VOIP would be one of the best features PGI could push right now.

I agree with you that new player retention would improve with built in VOIP.

So stop being so defencive towards people agreeing with you.

[Roadbeer]

Mudhutwarrior, on 16 November 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Nope, I meant the flag you all fly. I see it on the field. Laugh every time.

You mean like that time on Forest Colony when you derped alone, around the corner into the guns of 6 waiting mechs that were capping Eps, then spent the rest of the match spamming chat with your rant about "premades"? That kind of laughing?

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 November 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

I am so happy for you "I pug and I do Fine " People.

...

But its not about me, not about you. Its about retaining new players. A serious issue directly related to the long life of the game.

This has become you, in almost every post you make, you have become so shrill that even those who probably would agree with you are starting to call you out.

Seriously dude, I think it's time for Farmville for you.

Edited by Roadbeer, 17 November 2013 - 08:01 AM.

[Mawai]

Hi ... I disagree with the OP.

I PUG 100% of the time these days. I bought a Jester just for fun. After 82 matches my W/L is exactly 1.0. K/D is also about 1.0 ... I am still working on finding a really effective build for this mech. (On the other hand my W/L and K/D with my Jagermechs is higher likely due to the effectiveness of ACs at the moment).

I also find that most PUG matches (which often have pre-mades on one or both sides) are won or lost based on the relative "stupidity" of the opposing players and the ability of a team to take advantage of local numerical superiority.

1) Keep in mind that an advantage of 1 or 2 mechs is often sufficient to win the game especially if the team decides to push and can take advantage of significant local numerical superiority. Four mechs together can burn down even an Atlas very quickly with focused fire.

2) Some of the bad tactics used:

- Some folks like to go out to find the enemy. Usually they succeed and die for their trouble.

- Some folks like to peek over a hill or around a corner or through a choke point (crater entrances on terra therna ... ridge on frozen city) ... this is dumb ... usually there are 3 to 6 opposing mechs on the other side of the hill - they all get a shot and you get one. End result is your team hit points go down a lot and theirs go down a little. If you are going through a choke point - push all together and focus fire on ONE opponent at a time and burn them down.

- Scouts often think they are invincible ... yes Spiders can be hard to hit ... everyone AIM for their LEGS ... they die very fast when they stop moving. Same goes for every other light. If you want to use lights to distract the enemy (and it can work REALLY well .. do it just before your heavies start pushing ... dying to no purpose harassing the opposing team by yourself in a light mech is generally useless.

- Splitting up so that the groups are too far apart to support each other. If the opponents have not done the same then you will most likely lose since the other team will wipe up one group and then the second.

- lack of awareness of the mini-map about where your team mates are.

- Desire to get the kill resulting in poor game play. Some folks like to get the kill shot and try to solo/duel opponents and complain when someone helps. It can be a lot of fun to solo another player ... but it allows the opposing mech to do twice as much damage before it dies. When multiple folks kill the opponent it dies faster and does less damage leaving your TEAM in better shape.

- Not finishing an opponent when the opportunity arises. Too many folks let that badly damaged but fully armed mech retreat. This mech needs to be primary when it pokes its head out ... it is a PRIME target for light harassing mechs that can get behind the enemy and kill these badly damaged opponents. Too often folks have let my Jagermech live with red torso sections while I continue to pour damage into the fight from a distance.

- Target selection. Depending on the meta ... certain mechs are more effective than others and REALLY need to be primaried. At the moment, I would put Jagermechs at the top of the kill list due to the effectiveness of auto-cannons. There are just too many Jagermech builds which put out a ton of dps at no heat from range. 4 x AC2, 2xAC2+2xAC5, 4xAC5, 2xAC10, 2xAC20, 2xUAC5, 3xUAC5 ... if you aren't blowing up the Jagermechs on the opposing team when you can ... you are doing your team a dis-service. Same goes to some extent for the SHD with 3 ballistics slots and any mech that can fit 3 or more ballistics. (The same goes for some Cataphracts - especially the IM).

-------

If most individuals play smart on a PUG team, support their team mates, focus fire and generally stay together then PUGs can be extremely effective. If you end up on a team with a 4 man pre-made that knows better and wanders off on their own leaving the others to disperse ... you will likely lose despite the pre-made.

----

One final comment, sometimes bad play can be turned to your advantage ... I was driving a Jester and I noticed a raven behind our column on Terra Therna as we bypassed the crater ... I went back by myself (dumb!) to see whether they were going to base cap. The raven was joined by a cicada ... I exchanged a bit of fire and then 4 or 5 other opponents popped up beside them so I ran. I ran dodging into the crater at the bottom taking lots of fire but chased by 4 or 5 opponents trying for the kill - then ran back out of the crater along another valley that lead directly to the main group of my team. I died in the valley but not before the 5 opponents ran into my 10 team mates ... and died for their trouble. They got the kill they wanted and my team ended up with the win ... since it was difficult to overcome a 4 mech advantage.

[Jon Gotham]

Burpitup, on 23 September 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

Out of the last 12 games i have one 3. All of them pugs. When i play with my friends we win at least half or more. 4 of the games that i lost i did over 800 damage. All but one i did over 500 damage.

I have no problem with playing vs premade teams. I have noticed that it has been getting worse since the 12v12. To tell you the truth i have no idea why it is getting so bad. I have gotten on and had 0 wins out of 12.

This game does not have a good way for groups to get together either. They need a chat system to get to know people better and better network with other people. The forms are nice but they need a better way to converse with an individual.

I think within the garage there should be a general channel/lfg channel. then people could form 4 mans/ 12 mans from there.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 November 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

I am so happy for you "I pug and I do Fine " People.

I pug and I do fine also...

But its not about me, not about you. Its about retaining new players. A serious issue directly related to the long life of the game.

Man, Density to the max with the self centered.

Short Attention Span is a known thing man. Not everyone will latch on an love the game. Instant gratification cannot be something that banked on.

BattleTech has a small core of players that have supported the company for 3 decades. MechWarrior/DarkAge was a fast paced easy to play game that came and went in less than 6 years...

Don't follow THAT MechWarrior path.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 November 2013 - 06:02 AM.

[Sandpit]

I'm just curious Mud, what are you wanting in the game?

[Blurry]

Lykaon, on 17 November 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Missed what ?

Was it that Some players who can't be bothered to focus on playing more than 2-3 games before running off to forums have such strong opinions on how to play a game they rarely play?

Or was it that a solution to being unplayable for puggies is not being a puggie? It's like saying I hate getting electrocuted but I won't stop chewing on the cables.

Wait I know I missed out on the whole point of this bitchfest was to have something to gripe about without any desire for finding solutions,was that what I missed?

Here are the facts We do not have VOIP support within MWO now.We do not have it in the works or on the horizon.VOIP as an intergrated part of MWO is not coming soon!

VOIP use is a very potent tool when applied correctly.Comms are awesome they will win games when used properly.

If you want to improve your win ratio using VOIP is the single easyest way to meet that goal.

If you want to learn tactics and strategy from 1 year+ veterans VOIP is the easyest way to meet that goal.

If you want to gripe **** and moan on the forums about getting stomped by VOIP users then NOT using VOIP is the best way to meet that goal.


I agree with you that intergrated VOIP would be one of the best features PGI could push right now.

I agree with you that new player retention would improve with built in VOIP.

So stop being so defencive towards people agreeing with you.

I agree that would help and pull a seperate q.
But that doesnt add to all that glitters.
It doesnt make bank
and it isnt shiney so I doubt it will be implimented.
PGI has shown that thier dev is focused on one way -> shiney $$.

Why not throw the negative people a bone and help the game out? maybe they would spend $$ and support U.

[MadcatX]

Lykaon, on 17 November 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Here are the facts We do not have VOIP support within MWO now.We do not have it in the works or on the horizon.VOIP as an intergrated part of MWO is not coming soon!

VOIP use is a very potent tool when applied correctly.Comms are awesome they will win games when used properly.

If you want to improve your win ratio using VOIP is the single easyest way to meet that goal.

If you want to learn tactics and strategy from 1 year+ veterans VOIP is the easyest way to meet that goal.

If you want to gripe **** and moan on the forums about getting stomped by VOIP users then NOT using VOIP is the best way to meet that goal.

I agree with you that intergrated VOIP would be one of the best features PGI could push right now.

I agree with you that new player retention would improve with built in VOIP.

Built-in VOIP is a handy feature, but there are no guarantees that it will be used effectively or at all by pugs. There's a reason why people want the option to mute it or turn it off. Anonymous players in a pug can throw a lot of vitriol through VOIP.

My priorities before VOIP would be:

Lobbies and a chat system capable of creating channels, to assist with forming groups in-game easily (friend's list works too for the time being), but a PUG LFG lobby would help PUGS form teams and even choose mechs/layouts that work well together before a match.

A command wheel or other hotkeys with simple instructions like Help! or Attack my target!

my 2 cents

[Aym]

Burpitup, on 23 September 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

Out of the last 12 games i have one 3. All of them pugs. When i play with my friends we win at least half or more.

At least Half, or more. Confirmation bias much?

[Almond Brown]

Blurry, on 18 November 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

I agree that would help and pull a seperate q.
But that doesnt add to all that glitters.
It doesnt make bank
and it isnt shiney so I doubt it will be implimented.
PGI has shown that thier dev is focused on one way -> shiney $$.

Why not throw the negative people a bone and help the game out? maybe they would spend $$ and support U.

Why don't those who complain just pretend it is a Monthly sub and drop $15.00 a month, every month and then PGI might be able to afford to add it in. Otherwise, complaining about something you get for FREE is BS.

Without that so called "shiney $$" there would be SFA stupid.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Almond Brown, on 18 November 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Why don't those who complain just pretend it is a Monthly sub and drop $15.00 a month, every month and then PGI might be able to afford to add it in. Otherwise, complaining about something you get for FREE is BS.

Without that so called "shiney $$" there would be SFA stupid.

You first.. I put my money in already. Just haven't bought any shiny or silly {Scrap} just mech bays and such. I will put more in as soon as I am sure its worth investing in.

[Keitto]

I disagree with op.

For me it's the other way around. In a 4-man, we lose 75-90% of our matches. When I solo, I'm closer to 50-50.

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 18 November 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Why don't those who complain just pretend it is a Monthly sub and drop $15.00 a month, every month and then PGI might be able to afford to add it in. Otherwise, complaining about something you get for FREE is BS.

Without that so called "shiney $$" there would be SFA stupid.

A Month??? Try a week! I was dropping $15 a week for months.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 November 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

They always miss that one don't they? Its tough to argue logic with any one size fits all groupthink.

So are you saying that groups don't stop to take a smoke break, make a Beer run, Grab a bite to eat? A good group Like Murphy's) do not put a ball n chain on you. If you wanna drop and search the net, there is a dropship for you to go to labeled AFK. I can't speak for other teams, but we don't expect any member to be a Gobot.

Its easy to argue logic, so long as the logic used is understood.

[Iskareot]

In short after reading all of this and some people actually.... (this gets me)are mad or seemed to not want to give the choice of a system where you can CHOOSE to drop solo or premade. I see points on both sides of people wanting things but I think if you give the choice that would be the key. Hey look I do not want to take away from premade fun - I have done it, its a blast and pretty much a roll over if you have a decent team. BUT I also like to drop pug and be in a known decent fair match.

I know I have lost many many friends playing this game due to what they feel is an imbalance right out of the drop ship with premades vs pugs. I know getting the choice is valid over taking something away.

[Lykaon]

Blurry, on 18 November 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

I agree that would help and pull a seperate q.
But that doesnt add to all that glitters.
It doesnt make bank
and it isnt shiney so I doubt it will be implimented.
PGI has shown that thier dev is focused on one way -> shiney $$.

Why not throw the negative people a bone and help the game out? maybe they would spend $$ and support U.

I disagree.By providing social tools to the players they would be investing in a community composed of their players.

Players who belong to a social structure within an MMo spend more time involved with that game.

So it stands to reason that more players invested into the MMO community and remaining engaged with the game would translate to higher user retention.

Higher user retention translates to more users overall.More overall users translates to more money spent on the game by the players.

More money spent by the players means more available capital for further development of the game.


As for seperate queues for groups or solos the puggies already got their bone thrown to them.Groups size is limited to 4 max or a MANDATORY 12 player format that is annoying as hell to get rolling because getting 12 players attention focused on a game is akin to herding cats.

So what you are proposing is solo only queue = click launch and play or group only queue = wrangle 11 other players together long enough to maybe press launch 3 times with 5+ minute waits between matches adding to the lack of attention spans causing a loss of group members and eventually players.

So my options as a player who prefers groups to solo is play less often or play with players who refused to learn how to use team work?

And ultimatley what does a solo only queue get you?

The absolute knowlege that your team can't beg borrow or a steal a win on it's own the only hope is the opposing team sucks worse so you win.

Do not demand mediocrity victory is at your finger tips just demand the tools you need to win.

Edited by Lykaon, 19 November 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[Sandpit]

Team based online multiplayer game?
Well let me join this game and see what kind of single player and solo experience I get.
Wait...
You mean I'm not going to do quite as well as those who use teamwork?
What do you mean I have to play against people who actually use teamwork?
But I want to play by myself, be the best, and no amount of teamwork should be able to overcome my superior skillz. I'm 31137!

It's a team game. If you want to PUG then don't complain about things like:
No teamwork
Team not listening to strategy
No strategy
No cohesion
Rambos
Slower communication (I say slower because I communicate via typing all the time in PUGs)
Getting beat by a more cohesive team

[Joseph Mallan]

Iskareot, on 19 November 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

In short after reading all of this and some people actually.... (this gets me)are mad or seemed to not want to give the choice of a system where you can CHOOSE to drop solo or premade. I see points on both sides of people wanting things but I think if you give the choice that would be the key. Hey look I do not want to take away from premade fun - I have done it, its a blast and pretty much a roll over if you have a decent team. BUT I also like to drop pug and be in a known decent fair match.

I know I have lost many many friends playing this game due to what they feel is an imbalance right out of the drop ship with premades vs pugs. I know getting the choice is valid over taking something away.

I do have a choice. I can drop as a Lawman, or as a PUG. I chose PUG for months to see how good/bad Elo worked. I faced everything that came my way. I don't see what the problem is playing v Pre Mades as PUGs. The best team win... sometimes that isn't my team.