18 replies to this topic

[valt901]

I've noticed that some of the new Phoenix mech have no hard points in one of the arms but their heat efficencies are so bad that you must put heat sinks in that arm, thus requiring it to be armored. But just kind of wondering what's the point of having an arm with no hardpoints. You lose the range of motion of one or possibily two weapons. It doesn't seem to make sense to me. Any thoughts?

[Kotsuno]

Torso roll buffer - to help distribute damage away from CT/ST or your other arm..which usually has some critical hardpoint in the loadout of the variant.

Eg. Yenlo pilots usually field an AC20 in the right arm and use the left arm as a shield to incoming fire.

Edit: In relation to heat, consider upgrading to DHS on variants you intend to use and larger engines have more heatsink slots. I know most veterans, especially before the PPC meta, would try to build a heat neutral mech at the expense of say, a high-alpha build, or having that one extra laser.

Edited by Kotsuno, 21 October 2013 - 12:09 AM.

[MungFuSensei]

Ask any centurion pilot if their other arm is useless. It's a shield. Keeps you alive if you know how to use it. As far as your heat goes, that's a loadout problem, not a mech problem. I don't drop with less than 50% heat efficiency.

[Win Ott]

There are some very dangerous Cent builds that purposely remove all weapons from both arms. That gives them two shields for their torso. It sounds counterintuitive, I know, and there are some opportunity costs involved, but bare-arms do have a real purpose in the game.

[SuomiWarder]

A legacy of the board game. You could punch stuff or even pick up junk and use it to hit other mechs, thus having arms and hand actuators was worth it even if nothing was mounted in the arms. The Pheonix Mechs are from the older B Tech rules, so for some reason when they couldn't find a varient in the source material with weapons in teh arms they left it that way. To make a difference between the chassis I guess.

[Eaerie]

As stated above the arm is a shield. Face that arm towards the enemy. Once it gets blown any hit that strike whats left of that arm only transfer 50% damage thru to the ST. This is why cents are so damn hard to kill if you dont just leg them. Blow off and arm and ST any hits that hit whats left of the arm only transfer 50% to the ST which in turn only transfers 50% of the remaining damage to the CT. So that full on AC20 shot ends up doing 5 damage to the CT.

[Bront]

There are only 4 of the 12 phoenix mechs that can't mount weapons in the arms. The shadowhawks likely aren't going to run that hot, so you're likely talking about the Thunderbolts, particularly likely the 5SS. Generally, any structure can go in the arm spaces you aren't using, and HS should be first stuffed in the torso or in the engine before you put any on the arms. I'd actually suggest aiming for at least a 275 engine just for the HS slot in the engine. If you're still running too hot, drop a weapon. Sometimes if it's not going to get fired, it's not worth having.

Meanwhile, reduce it's armor a bit and turn it into damage whe you're getting fired on, and your important parts will take less damage. (I suck at this btw, but it's a good stratergy).

Edited by Bront, 22 October 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Xanilos]

i run both trebuchets and centurions and on the treb i have i often take all the armor off the arms to put in a bigger engine and the cent i use them as a shield it all depends on the size and shape of the arms i also find it is best to avoid putting heat sinks (and ammo) in the arms whenever possible since they're easier to destroy (ammo i NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER put in the arms)

[MungFuSensei]

Xanilos, on 23 October 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

i run both trebuchets and centurions and on the treb i have i often take all the armor off the arms to put in a bigger engine and the cent i use them as a shield it all depends on the size and shape of the arms i also find it is best to avoid putting heat sinks (and ammo) in the arms whenever possible since they're easier to destroy (ammo i NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER put in the arms)

Think of it this way, though. If you lose the arm that the weapon is in, what does it matter if you still have the ammo? When possible, if there is an ammo weapon in the arm, I store the ammo there as well.

[Amsro]

MungFuSensei, on 24 October 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Think of it this way, though. If you lose the arm that the weapon is in, what does it matter if you still have the ammo? When possible, if there is an ammo weapon in the arm, I store the ammo there as well.

The ammo explosion could render your mech dead! Be careful where you place volatile ammo. Gauss Ammo is the only one you can place ANYWHERE.

[MungFuSensei]

Amsro, on 24 October 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

The ammo explosion could render your mech dead! Be careful where you place volatile ammo. Gauss Ammo is the only one you can place ANYWHERE.

Yeah, but an ammo explosion in the arms carries into the side torso, while an ammo explosion in the legs carries into the center torso.

[101011]

Amsro, on 24 October 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

The ammo explosion could render your mech dead! Be careful where you place volatile ammo. Gauss Ammo is the only one you can place ANYWHERE.

Running Blackjacks or Orions, I find that it's usually safer in the arms than the legs. The occasional light may try and leg you, but almost no one would ever think to blow off an arm, ergo, no one would hit the ammo.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

However, if the arm is straight-up blown off, any ammunition explosion caused during that event does no damage to your mech. And since ammuntion-dependent weapons are generally larger in terms of slots than ammo bins, they are more likely to be destroyed before the ammunition anyway. I'm not sure I ever suffered an ammo explosion in an attached arm.

[MungFuSensei]

Here's a good question, though. I know there's the catapult which is a no-brainer, but is it ever better to focus on the arm instead of the side torso? I'm talking independent of hitzone size. Some mechs like the centurion give you no choice, but on something like a hunchback, those arms snap off like chicken bones. Time-to-kill an arm versus time-to-kill a side torso. That's a number worth looking at.

[Jiyu Mononoke]

SuomiWarder, on 21 October 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

A legacy of the board game. You could punch stuff or even pick up junk and use it to hit other mechs, thus having arms and hand actuators was worth it even if nothing was mounted in the arms.

I would LOVE to see punching in MWO. It would have to be on mechs that have the proper actuators, but it would give an interesting option to certain mechs.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Arms generally (always?) carry less armour than torsos. They're also much smaller targets and tend to carry not as much firepower - the asymmetrical Hunchbacks, for instance, the Atlas (usually)... so on. There are exceptions, like the Victor or Highlander with their capacity for large-bore autocannon or Gauss, or the Jenner. Although the Lights with their arm-mounted weapons are much harder to hit in the arm compared to centre-of-mass torso shots.

So while arms are usually easier to knock off for Component Destruction bonuses, they are smaller targets and not generally as useful in terms of denying an enemy their firepower.

[Selfish]

MungFuSensei, on 24 October 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Yeah, but an ammo explosion in the arms carries into the side torso, while an ammo explosion in the legs carries into the center torso.

No. Both explosions carry into their corresponding side torsos. From there, they proceed into the Center Torso. Ammo explosions only stop when they have no ammo left to burn or destroy a component containing CASE.

[audi man]

If ammo get used up quickly, it doesnt matter where it is.

In a CTF-4X build, I have ammo in the arms, legs, and CT.

The ammo gets used up in the arms and and CT first, so by the time you've taken enough hits to make ammo explosion a possibility, its gone anyway.

I've only died once from ammo explosion in that particular chassis.... in 246 matches.

Edited by gldgti, 29 October 2013 - 11:27 PM.

[Void Angel]

Arms always require armor in humanoid 'mechs. You can partly strip armor from an empty arm if you're really, really hurting for tonnage, but the arm will absorb damage that would otherwise hit more vital locations - as well as the damage reduction listed above.