130 replies to this topic

[Ground Pounder]

Alright...I think the PGI folks need to take a long look (or read, however you want to word it) at how mechs actually move around on the battlefield in the fiction and the previous games and understand that this game has it really really wrong.

This mainly applies to light mechs who are jumping around like people playing Halo 1 and snap firing all over the place while making some terribly acrobatic springs off of rocks and hill sides.

Mechs, including light mechs, are not incredibly agile. Smaller mechs may be faster when moving in a straight line or even zig zags to avoid fire, but the pin point turns, springing off terrain with jump jets (and bouncing back and forth like Spiderman) and navigating terrain without any real encumberance is ridiculous.

You have gimped larger mechs by not allowing thier arms to gain the full range of motion allowed (A mech with upper and lower arm actuators has the same range of motion as a normal human being) by the designs, taking away rear facing weapons, limiting up and down look angles (this also goes along with arm range of motion...an atlas can raise his arms basically to eye level or point them straight at the ground!), taking away knock downs (so basically, you have light mechs standing directly under larger mechs with flamers and lasers cutting them to pieces with immunity)...It is ridiculous

You have also buffed light mechs where they are able to take multiple hits with larger weapons and still be combat effective, damage seems it isn't allocated the same as it is in the larger mechs. In Light Mechs, Damage gets spread out all over the mech so, in effect, light mechs have comparable armor to thier bigger cousins because they aren't taking ALL the damage from a hit to a single location like the bigger guys. And speed kills to say the very least. Light mechs move faster than larger mechs can track, they are running up walls and hill sides at no real detriment to speed and in general are just not balanced.

Some folks will argue that "Well, I get one shotted all the time in my light mech"...Well, guess what...so does the atlas who takes a head shot (an easy shot actually), or the Poor Catapults who are whipping boys with thier large torsos and easy to hit cockpits. That arguement doesn't fly, because if you get one shotted in a light mech, it means you stopped moving and it wouldnt have mattered if you were a Jenner or an Atlas....You were gonna die anyway.

I am a 20 year Mechwarrior/Battletech fan...and the fact that the Heavy and Assault Mech killers are light mechs with flamers and medium lasers running around thier feet is ridiculous.

This needs to be fixed. Soon.

[OneEyed Jack]

Ground Pounder, on 23 September 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

This needs to be fixed. Soon.

Yeah... good luck with that.

[Ground Pounder]

OneEyed Jack, on 23 September 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

Yeah... good luck with that.

I know..but its frustrating none the less

[Vercinaigh]

Skill should dictate win or loss, not how big your d-...mech is.

[dario03]

The answer is this is MWO. And the cool thing to do here when talking about negatives is to compare the game to COD not Halo. And lights are fine when hit registration is working right which now a days is most of the time.

[Cybermech]

you died to flaming lights in an assault?
maybe ask the right question like how do I hit lights?

[ShockATC]

i totally agree with you, Ground Punder.
The movement is a mess... Those arent stompy Mega-Ton-Mechs, there more like Supersoldiers from a special force team.
Movement should slow down a bit. Or at least be more realistic.

[Iron Hyena]

I've never had any issue killing lights. It takes good aim.

My Highlander, which has tiny arm movement, can tear jenners in half with its AC/20 when they are moving at 150 kph.

Even being circled isnt an issue.

[MadMaxMKII]

I think it is just ridiculous watching a 30 TONS Mech jumping through mid air with an average of 130km/h. rofl...stop this ******** asap...30 tons...cannot stop laughing about it.

[Training Instructor]

Yeah, I think PGI looked at terrain the wrong way.

Mountain bikes with bigger wheels are better at negotiating terrain than bikes with small wheels, because they can simply roll over things. Adult men can navigate obstacles better than midgets because we have more range of motion, longer strides, and can more easily lift our feet over obstacles...or simply walk through things.

Boulders and shallow slopes should barely slow an Atlas down, yet it's ridiculous how much they currently do. Think of an Atlas as a bulldozer: low top speed, but can move through terrain without significantly slowing down.

I agree that it was ridiculous in the past how people were ascending 45 degree slopes without even slowing down, but I don't agree with how much extremely minor terrain features are like quicksand for heavy and assault mechs.

[Reginald Lansing]

MadMaxMKII, on 24 September 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

I think it is just ridiculous watching a 30 TONS Mech jumping through mid air with an average of 130km/h. rofl...stop this ******** asap...30 tons...cannot stop laughing about it.

But the fact that a 90 ton Highlander can jump at all isn't as humorous?

[Kitane]

Consider the superior maneuverability of light mechs a counter-weight to unrealistic (BT-wise) and impossibly good precision of your weapons, Mr. Assault.

We could make lights less agile if weapons fired with massive accuracy penalties like they did in the TT/Lore. But as long as you can place all laser beams on one spot on Light mech's torso with little to no effort, you have nothing to complain.

Light mechs need this agility to survive against more experienced pilots, who can nail them if they linger in their field of view more than few seconds.

[D1al T0ne]

You're going to lose this argument in these forums.

Why? Because it's been so long since there was a Mechwarrior game that Call of Duty has taken over the general mindset. Instead of realizing that your arguments are valid points, due to the fact that the Mechwarrior franchise was never a twitch shooter to begin with, you'll only get arguments like "You just need to aim better noob".

PGI has targeted the twitch shooter crowd. It's currently the largest demographic in the gaming community and that's the piece of the pie from which they plan to take a slice. There's only extremely minimal tactics such as "Well, gee, which lane should I go down on all of these Defense of the Mechwarrior Ancients style maps?". There's no real missions for each team such as one team protecting an important commander and the other is trying to take him out. There's no persistent territory to control or defend. It's a plain and simple CoD style lobby based matchmaker where the only thing that matters is how high is your K/D ratio?

If you really want to play all the iconic mechs from your youth, then you're just going to have to suck it up and deal with the herpa derps that were still ******** their diapers when the last MW title was still hot on the shelves. Just take heart in the fact that when you DO kill that twitch shooter in the light mech running around your feet, he's probably pounding on his desk and screaming at his monitor.

Edited by D1al T0ne, 24 September 2013 - 01:17 AM.

[MadMaxMKII]

Reginald Lansing, on 24 September 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

But the fact that a 90 ton Highlander can jump at all isn't as humorous?

you are right, searching for a realistic approach isnt possible. when I read that a Cataphract-5D can jump up to 180m...

[Alistair Winter]

MadMaxMKII, on 24 September 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

you are right, searching for a realistic approach isnt possible. when I read that a Cataphract-5D can jump up to 180m...

This forum is full of people who cry out for more realism, but are secretly glad this game isn't actually a sim, and people who want the Atlas to be the best mech in the game, while demanding the right to play the Atlas in every match.

I would love for this game to be more realistic, and make piloting much more difficult, to the point where running 150 kph through dense terrain was likely to cause severe damage from collisions. The more realistic, the better. I would love for certain mechs, like the Atlas, to be so powerful that you nearly soiled yourself if you saw one appear in a match. I think a lot of new games rob the players of the sense of awe and adrenaline you would get in certain old games, when you encountered a particularly dangerous enemy.

But there would be a price to pay for these things, and most fans are very content with what we have now in terms of realism and mech balance. Personally, I'm a big advocate of making light mechs as good as assault mechs, because that's a necessity when everyone gets to play an assault mech if they want to. If you could actually lose your assault mech when you died, then I would be fine with having assault mechs as far superior mechs.

What some fans are asking for (total freedom to choose any mech, yet make assault mechs by far the best) reminds me of pretend playing with my friends when I was a kid, and everyone wanted to be Superman.

[Mehlan]

Training Instructor, on 24 September 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

Yeah, I think PGI looked at terrain the wrong way.

Mountain bikes with bigger wheels are better at negotiating terrain than bikes with small wheels, because they can simply roll over things. Adult men can navigate obstacles better than midgets because we have more range of motion, longer strides, and can more easily lift our feet over obstacles...or simply walk through things.

Boulders and shallow slopes should barely slow an Atlas down, yet it's ridiculous how much they currently do. Think of an Atlas as a bulldozer: low top speed, but can move through terrain without significantly slowing down.

I agree that it was ridiculous in the past how people were ascending 45 degree slopes without even slowing down, but I don't agree with how much extremely minor terrain features are like quicksand for heavy and assault mechs.

...and how often do you see an elephant climb a tree vs a squirrel? The 'larger' legs does not mean the leg is moving all that much higher in step,.

Yes this goes faster than TT, by virtue that the system has removed all the 'work' behind the action and your playing one mech not 4-5+. Then as explained you have convergence in weapons, hell the fact you can aim your weapons at all...

[Orkhepaj]

Mechwarrior in name and skins , and thats all.

[Colby Boucher]

Solution: make engines have WAY higher heat output
A light on tourmaline should not be able to run the engine that hard and get away with it.

While I wish there were penalties for turning (sliding, that sort of thing) I doubt it will ever happen.


BTW, I'm 16. And I think CoD is fun. But these are vehicles.

[Chemie]

I hate the new speed of the legs...just does not look right.

and lights are not OP....you can easily one shot so it is nicely balanced. (excluding spider which is bugged all to hell and has not been fixed since its introduction)

Edited by Chemie, 24 September 2013 - 03:16 AM.

[The Boz]

Lights are still too small compared to bigger mechs. Even if everything else was fixed (HSR, collisions, weapon convergence), they'd still have the hilarious advantage of being half the size that they're supposed to, meaning all of their components are twice as hard to hit even while standing still. This, coupled with the empty space within the designs (Spider, Raven, Jenner) enables some seriously wacky antics...