15 replies to this topic

[DefenderioR]

i wait your advice about this build.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...033c33b22dcdd4c

[ShadowbaneX]

1) XL in a Stalker is almost universally an unwise decision.
2) 4 PPCs are going to trigger Ghost Heat if you fire them within half a second of each other.
3) 4 Streaks are really only useful for dealing with lights.
3a) 1 ton of ammo is insufficient.
3b) No Beagle Active Probe to counter ECM-equipped lights.
4) Way too much armour stripped off the legs.

[TercieI]

I agree with Shadowbane re: XL. You defeat a large portion of your purpose, especially in a brawling/mid-range build.

I disagree that streaks are only good against lights. 20 points (albeit not pinpoint) of damage with less heat than lasers/PPCs can help you manage heat in tight spots while keeping pressure on. Light-defense is their main purpose, of course.

I run something very similar, but with 4 Large Lasers, paired and careful of .5 seconds between shots to avoid ghost heat.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d8a6c19f2a12681

I'm not an expert pilot by any means, but I've had my best Stalker brawling success with versions of this build.

S

Edited by Terciel1976, 29 September 2013 - 06:46 PM.

[ShadowbaneX]

Terciel1976, on 29 September 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d8a6c19f2a12681

Move the Beagle to the CT and put one ton of Streak ammo in each leg. That way, if your right leg gets blown off you've still got some ammo leg. Also pull a Heat Sink for an AMS and a ton of ammo. If you're that big having AMS is going to help, especially against those LRM5 spammers.

[TercieI]

ShadowbaneX, on 29 September 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

Move the Beagle to the CT and put one ton of Streak ammo in each leg. That way, if your right leg gets blown off you've still got some ammo leg. Also pull a Heat Sink for an AMS and a ton of ammo. If you're that big having AMS is going to help, especially against those LRM5 spammers.

Good points, thanks.

I've actually just swapped AMS for BAP. Hate to lose any HSs, it's borderline as-is, but I'll likely give it a go.

S

[ShadowbaneX]

Terciel1976, on 29 September 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

Good points, thanks.

I've actually just swapped AMS for BAP. Hate to lose any HSs, it's borderline as-is, but I'll likely give it a go.

S

I know what you mean. I've got an RS last night and stuck in 4 LLs with 23 DHS...well, it was 24, then after getting plinked to death by an LRM5 missile boat that it was time for AMS. Once I get better with timing the LL shots, I'll start to strip out DHS and add in some other weapons.

If you're leaving the Streaks out of it, you should be fine.

[Mahws]

Honestly I'd ditch the SSRM completely. You might be able to scare off a single inexperienced light mech with them, but if they actually commit they won't help much. Stalkers are for shooting big mechs, even with streaks they're just no good at defending themselves against lights. Better to rely on your allies to cover you.

Same goes for the AMS. With an energy boat build you should be popping out to fire, then ducking back into cover to cool down, so ideally LRM's shouldn't be your concern. If you find them being an issue for you though then try to sacrifice as few heatsinks as possible.

Similair to what I run on my Awesomes:
STK-3F

3xLL generate practically no ghost heat so can be alpha'd with or without the PPC with no issues (4xLL is a different story). If you want AMS I'd recommend removing a single heatsink then leg armour.

Edited by Mahws, 29 September 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[TercieI]

Yeah. If. My trigger finger is...heavy.

S

[Modo44]

SSRM8 doesn't just scare lights, it legs them in a hurry, especially if you start them off with an alpha to the leg. Why do you think so many people run around in Kintaros? 2xPPC+4xML+4xSSRM2 led me to a game with 8 kills once, and typically scores well thanks to the low heat (for a Stalker). If you want 4 LLs and no streaks, at least take some backup in the torso: 4xLL+2xSRM6+2xML. For a really simple approach, take 2xLL+2xPPC, alphastrike all day.

Edited by Modo44, 29 September 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[Mahws]

Modo44, on 29 September 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

especially if you start them off with an alpha to the leg.

The closest you can get to aiming with streaks is getting as close to the bit you want to hit as possible. Not really something a Stalker can do.

Streaks are great for fast mechs with good torso twist (like the Kintaro) that can keep their lock on. If a light pilot is letting a Stalker keep a lock on him it's because he's terrible. And even against terrible light mech players you're still hosed if there's more than one.

SRM6 and ML as back up aren't bad, but that's 11 tonnes of weight that's extremely situational. If you get in a brawl it'll make you slightly less horribly outmatched but for all the times when you're where a Stalker should be, in the heart of your team dishing out supporting fire, that's 11 tonnes of dead weight you're not using.

If you enjoy brawling in a Stalker that's not a bad thing and a skilled player can make almost anything work. But that's not really the strong point of the chassis.

Edited by Mahws, 29 September 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[Modo44]

Mahws, on 29 September 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

The closest you can get to aiming with streaks is getting as close to the bit you want to hit as possible. Not really something a Stalker can do.

Reading comprehension FTW: You fire an alpha with your energy weapons, and let the streaks do the rest.

[Mahws]

An alpha is firing all of your weapons (so if you have streaks you can't alpha at a particular limb per se). Point taken though.

Of course that requires you to either:
1) Surprise a stationary light (not likely in a 60 kp/h blimp on legs).
2) Reliably land a shot on a moving lights leg using torso/no lower actuator arm weapons (and if you can do that, why would you need streaks?)

Streaks on an assault are far from useless, but it's 8.5 tonnes of weight (not to mention space) to take those streaks. I don't take them for the same reason I wouldn't take small lasers, just because it can work doesn't mean it's the best use of the space.

Edited by Mahws, 29 September 2013 - 10:10 PM.

[Modo44]

The Seismic Sensor takes care of the surprise factor. The quad MLs in 4 different locations are very good at converging at targets you marginally miss (like lights running by). I recommend you actually try it. I have, it works.

8.5 tons is what, one more PPC plus heatsink? Where would you fit that? More importantly, how would you cool it down?

[Mahws]

Just at a quick look, it's upgrading to a 300 engine, three extra heatsinks and upgrading those 4ML to 2LL (slightly lower DPS, better heat, better range).

Like I said, I don't doubt it works, I just don't think it's the best use of the space and tonnage. It's like taking machine guns on most mechs, yes they work, and in the right situation can be quite useful, but when measured against the other things you could use the weight/slots for it just doesn't seem to be worth it. To each their own though.

Edited by Mahws, 30 September 2013 - 02:00 AM.

[Kaijin]

XL engines and assault mechs do not get along, but particularly not Stalkers. Their side torsos are huge. Because Stalkers have half of their impressive number of hardpoints on each side, and because there is significantly more armor in the CT, common practice is to take out one torso at a time, assuming the Stalker doen't have an XL. 'Course, you lose a side torso with an XL engine, and they won't have to worry about taking the other one because you'll be dead already.

[ShadowbaneX]

Kaijin, on 30 September 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

XL engines and assault mechs do not get along, but particularly not Stalkers. Their side torsos are huge. Because Stalkers have half of their impressive number of hardpoints on each side, and because there is significantly more armor in the CT, common practice is to take out one torso at a time, assuming the Stalker doen't have an XL. 'Course, you lose a side torso with an XL engine, and they won't have to worry about taking the other one because you'll be dead already.

I'm not so sure it's 'common practice' to blow out one ST then the other. It's more that people can't hit the CT since it's so damned small. So they wind up taking out the STs first, then once their both gone, all the damage hits the CT.