63 replies to this topic

[Shadey99]

MWO uses a fairly simple formula to decide the maximum engine rating a mech can use (ignoring the limit of 400 rated engines being the biggest ones made)...

Maximum-Engine power rating with (round up to nearest 5 or 0):

• Light 'Mech = 1.4 x Stock-Engine
  
• Medium 'Mech = 1.3 x Stock-Engine
  
• Heavy 'Mech = 1.2 x Stock-Engine
  
• Assault 'Mech = 1.2 x Stock-Engine

If we could finally do away with the speed cap lighter mechs would change drastically:

• Locust: 1.4x160 or 225 which would give it a speed of 182.25 kph (200.5 kph)
  
• Flea: 1.4x120 or 170 which would give it a speed of 137.7 kph (151.5 kph)
  
• Commando: 1.4x150 or 210 which would give it a speed of 136.1 kph (149.7 kph)
  
• Spider: 1.4x240 or 340 which would give it a speed of 183.6 kph (202 kph)
  
• Jenner: 1.4x245 or 345 which would give it a speed of 159.7 kph (175.7 kph)
  
• Raven (3L): 1.4x210 or 295 which does give a speed of 136.5 kph (150.2 kph)
  
• Cicada: 1.3x320 or 416 (ie 400) which would give it a speed of 162 kph (178.2 kph)

The Flea is sans MASC, with MASC it would be near the Locust or Spider in speed (while MASC lasted). btw for fun... The Urbanmech under these rules would max at a 85 rated engine and reach a max of 45.9 (50.5 kph)...

So... The 'evil' Spider and the Locust would be the two fastest mechs in the game at nearly 1/4th faster than the current cap. The Flea would place third while MASC was engaged. The Jenner would get a bit of a boost as would the Cicada. And as this shows the Commando and Raven would not change.

However with the bigger engines to reach the max speeds those mechs would get even less weaponry. The Cicada for instance with a 400 XL even with Endo Steel would have 4.5 tons left over for weapons and armor. So more reasonably a Cicada with 8 tons of armor, ES, and 4 tons of weapons (4xML) which leaves it 26 tons for an engine which would be a 370 at 25.5 tons and could reach 164.9 kph with speed tweak.

Similarly the Locust with a 225 XL uses 10 tons for it's engine, 1 ton for the 10th HS, 1 ton for ES, 4.5 tons for standard armor (Just shy of max), and leaving 3.5 tons for weapons. This is enough for 4 MGs and a small laser or 2 MGs and a medium (with 1/2 ton of free weight).

Hit registration and issues with server performance (which are the stated reasons for the cap) aside, would any of these really break game balance...?

Edited by Shadey99, 26 September 2013 - 07:04 AM.

[jtyotJOTJIPAEFVJ]

This would be great. Only I think PGI will never actually get to fix the speed cap. Sad but true.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Without phycals and knockdown. yes.

I want to see a 200KPH spider disintigrate as it clips the side of a building/atlas leg.

Or the locust hitting the water at 200KPH and face planting.

Or maybe 2 mechs colliding at a combined 400 KPH, in a fusion of fusion reactors.

[Mehlan]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 25 September 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Without phycals and knockdown. yes.

I want to see a 200KPH spider disintigrate as it clips the side of a building/atlas leg.

Or the locust hitting the water at 200KPH and face planting.

Or maybe 2 mechs colliding at a combined 400 KPH, in a fusion of fusion reactors.

Same time as we see assaults get stuck in buildings, or fall flat on their face trying to travers down a hillside?

[Shadey99]

A Spider at 200 kph (120 mph) hitting an obstacle would not disintegrate... A 2 ton car doesn't disintegrate clipping the side of a building at that speed and it doesn't have 6 tons of armor or a 1.5 ton 'internal structure' of 'super advanced' materials like the Spider.

[Pyrrho]

Why does my AC/20 shot completely rock a 100t Atlas avatar yet only marginally disturb a 35t Jenner (at least until the shot causes it to die and flip into a glorious somersault)?

[Khobai]

Quote

Commando: 1.4x150 or 210 which would give it a speed of 136.1 kph (149.7 kph)

Removing speed caps makes it so theres even less of a reason to play Commandos.

Commandos need to go faster than Jenners or theres no point in playing a mech thats 10 tons lighter.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Mehlan, on 25 September 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

Same time as we see assaults get stuck in buildings, or fall flat on their face trying to travers down a hillside?

That already happens, and not just to assaults. Any mech with a low enough speed can get caught up on a rock, car, curb, or sign post.
Going down hill isn't dangerous because mechs can't exceed their flat ground speed limitations. But I wouldn't mind seeing jumping mechs fall on their backsides from time to time.

[Shadey99]

Khobai, on 25 September 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

Removing speed caps makes it so theres even less of a reason to play Commandos.

Commandos need to go faster than Jenners or theres no point in playing a mech thats 10 tons lighter.

Yes, yes, you have repeated this numerous times. How about you blame FASA for giving it a 150 rated engine and making it a firepower heavy mech?

Though I think a mech specific bonuses to speed cap could easily be done. If it had a 1.5 multiplier it could run a 225 engine and hit 160.4 kph. It takes a 1.8 multiplier to get a 270 engine and hit 175 kph in a Commando.

Edit: What we may want to do instead is mod the way speed is calculated based on engine rating and mech tonnage. Currently this is figured by engine rating/mech tonnage*16.2. If those mechs like the commando or Cicada had a modifier of 17 than they would be faster regardless of engine installed... This however would effect stock builds....

Edited by Shadey99, 26 September 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Shadey99, on 25 September 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

A Spider at 200 kph (120 mph) hitting an obstacle would not disintegrate... A 2 ton car doesn't disintegrate clipping the side of a building at that speed and it doesn't have 6 tons of armor or a 1.5 ton 'internal structure' of 'super advanced' materials like the Spider.

Funny you should mention that.
http://www.wenatchee...its-restaurant/

Quote

WENATCHEE — A speeding car struck a sign pole in the 1000 block of North Mission Street about 11 p.m. Tuesday. The collision cut the vehicle in half and ejected the driver, and the front half of the car went through a restaurant wall and struck a worker inside

the car in question was a Mazda 626. 2,800 pounds, they estimate it was traveling about 100MPH (160 KPH)

[Shadey99]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 25 September 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Funny you should mention that.

I think you need to take more physics classes or watch more Mythbusters. EIther one would show much more typical results for vehicle collisions. Either way the Mazda has far less mass than a 30 ton stompy robot, let alone armor.

[Mehlan]

Quote

That already happens, and not just to assaults. Any mech with a low enough speed can get caught up on a rock, car, curb, or sign post.
Going down hill isn't dangerous because mechs can't exceed their flat ground speed limitations. But I wouldn't mind seeing jumping mechs fall on their backsides from time to time.

exceeding 'max' speed isn't the issue... gravity and terrain are. Just how articulated is that foot?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Well you cant hit them with low fps as it is so lets speed them up more. Just crazy.

[FupDup]

[aniviron]

Mehlan, on 25 September 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

Same time as we see assaults get stuck in buildings, or fall flat on their face trying to travers down a hillside?

This, so much this. Tired of assault pilots so upset that they can't just set throttle to maximum, bowl over their opponents and ac20 their backs. If you want "realistic" collisions, you can have them when bridges twist and crumble beneath your atlas, when you get stuck and are limited to half speed in muddy terrain, or when having a building or hill near you impedes your torso twisting instead of just letting you clip through it.

[PEEFsmash]

You should quote each of these mechs assuming at least SOME weaponry. Yeah, 200kph spider sounds scary, but that can't even mount a small laser, lol.

[Shadey99]

PEEFsmash, on 25 September 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

You should quote each of these mechs assuming at least SOME weaponry. Yeah, 200kph spider sounds scary, but that can't even mount a small laser, lol.

Well I did up 2, I can do more though...

A XL 340 (20.5 tons) Spider with ES (1.5 tons), and nearly max armor (6.5 tons), has 1.5 tons left for... something... Maybe 2 JJs and a SL...?

No change to the Commando...

The Flea is limited to a 170 XL (4 tons), requires 4 HS (4 tons), ES (1 ton), armor equal to the Locust (4.5 tons), MASC (1 ton), and leaves you 5.5 tons... Enough for 5 Medium lasers with a bit of space left over...

Jenner with a 345 XL (21.5 tons), ES (2 tons), armor (7 tons), and that leaves you 4.5 tons for anything else (4 ML and a JJ?)..

And again no change in the Raven...

I don't find any max speed designs all that scary...

[627]

i find it weird that they say speed cap is an cryengine limit.

But It is possible to track down gauss balls and PPC shots which go 2000m/s...

[Mister Blastman]

627, on 25 September 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

i find it weird that they say speed cap is an cryengine limit.

But It is possible to track down gauss balls and PPC shots which go 2000m/s...

It isn't a cryengine limit, it is a MWO netcode engine limit. Mechwarrior Living Legends uses the cryengine also and they have aerotech that go 350 kph just fine...

[Cirran]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 25 September 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Without phycals and knockdown. yes.

I want to see a 200KPH spider disintigrate as it clips the side of a building/atlas leg.

Or the locust hitting the water at 200KPH and face planting.

Or maybe 2 mechs colliding at a combined 400 KPH, in a fusion of fusion reactors.

Mehlan, on 25 September 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

Same time as we see assaults get stuck in buildings, or fall flat on their face trying to travers down a hillside?

Hmmmm, do I detect a bit of rancor between light pilots and everyone else? Spider would not disintegrate but it would trip fall and skid for a long distance and take a TON of damage (falling damage + skidding damage + ramming damage if it hit anything before It came to a stop). Locust might fall and take 1/2 falling damage. Any mech can get stuck trying to force it's way through a building. If the hillside is rough terrain and the mech is moving above walking speed it may fall down and take falling damage. In short, physical damage would be most interesting to see implemented into the game.