13 replies to this topic

[Phoenix Branson]

With the recent c-bill nerf, it would be nice if PGI added a new salvage mechanic to MWO. Instead of that boring salvage bonus awarded at the end of the match, it would be cool if they added something much more interesting and fun. With that said, let’s get started. The basic premise of this proposed salvage system is when you destroy an enemy ‘Mech on the battlefield, there is a small chance to salvage that ‘Mech at the end of the match. The salvage percentage would need extensive testing by PGI, but for the sake of argument, say 1 to 5%. But, before you are given the chance to salvage, you must meet the following criteria:

1. You must be on the winning team and a surviving player (encourages teamwork).
2. You must have inflicted damage during the course of the match (prevent farming).
3. You must not be a team killer (forfeit salvage chance).

When you meet the above criteria and are lucky enough to get the chance to salvage, you have three options:

1. Hire Novice Technician (cost = free)
2. Hire Proficient Technician (cost = c-bills)
3. Hire Expert Technician (cost = MC)

Basically, this system is based on a tiered approach. Hiring a novice technician is free, but the salvage reward is rather lackluster - small amount of c-bills. For players not interested in gambling, this is the choice and will be awarded as such (e.g. 100,000 c-bills). Hiring a proficient technician costs you c-bills, but you have the chance to salvage weapons and equipment installed on the enemy BattleMech. Lastly, hiring an expert technician costs you MC, but you have an even greater chance to salvage weapons and equipment. You are also given a very small chance to salvage the engine or even the enemy BattleMech chassis (the chassis cannot be a variant that requires MC to purchase such as heroes). Please note, the enemy player that died won't lose a thing.

This system provides an interactive money sink with a hint of gambling for players and the developers will see more money in their coffins as players attempt to win that new ‘Mech. This salvage system would break up the monotony of the grind while adding some immersion to the game. Thoughts/Opinions?

Edited by Maverick01, 10 October 2013 - 05:25 PM.

[FinsT]

The community will find out very quickly whether such a gambling is a net gain or net loss. For it to work at all, it must be net gain for players - and substantial one with that (otherwise noone will invest C-bills nor MC into it). However, if it is significant net gain, then it will increase the pace of grind significantly. The pace is in place for a reason. In order to compensate this new gambling system, quite soon and quite inevitably, the grind itself will be re-balanced to be slower in its basic form.

End result, in a few months, will be slower basic grind and nearly "mandatory" nature of the gambling system for any persisting player - in other words, this will do nothing, in the long run, except to make the grind more random.

Which is kind of is the intent, as far as i can tell.

The question then is, would it be better? For me, the answer is "no". I understand the reason behind long grinds (hey, should it be easy and quick, everyone would have everything, and nobody would value anything, right?). However, randomizing it? No thanks. I don't want to spend weeks or months cursing Lady Luck about desired items never "dropping" for me, - and having to do double or triple -long grind to get what i want "the usual way" (because it was slowed even more to compensate the gambling system).

[Darth Buddha]

Only for death match's.. Winner Keeps anything that's left...

BUT you have to pay to fix dmg on your mech and the prize mech...

[DocBach]

FinsT, on 10 October 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

The community will find out very quickly whether such a gambling is a net gain or net loss. For it to work at all, it must be net gain for players - and substantial one with that (otherwise noone will invest C-bills nor MC into it).

It's gambling - the odds are suppose to be stacked against the player. Players inclined to take risks will like the mechanic, players that don't can use the free option to sell the salvage as scrap and receive a bonus like salvage currently provides.

[FinsT]

Oh! Odds against player? I see.

You said: "Players inclined to take risks will like the mechanic". I suppose you mean that such players will actually use the mechanic. If so, then i guess you don't target potential users of the feature completely precisely: i'd rather say that players who 1) are inclined to take risks, AND 2) are not much eager to grind a particular mech and/or weaponry - only those are ones who would use the mechanic.

Because, naturally, when one "wants" that brand new Highlander (or rather, 3 of them to master the chosen one), and on top of that, one specifically wants a set of, say, UAC/5 cannons and ER PPCs, - and one knows he can just "grind" it, - then how would you expect him to "sink" significant sums of C-bills and/or MC on gambling which actually has odds against him? He'd be working against his own desires, - no matter how inclined he is to take some risk, this is something you won't see much often. Because, well, people tend to do things which fulfils their desires - not the opposite, yes?

Say. There is a game with a long and rich tradition of gambling - Diablo 2. For many years, there are NPCs in that game who allow players to "gamble" for equipment. It's a gold sink alright. And odds are indeed against the player: chances to get a particular desirable item through gambling in Diablo 2 - are MUCH lower (per hour of dedicated gold grinding) in compare to actual "farming" of item(s) themselves (per hour of killing enemies who have highest chance to drop desired item). Exceptions exist, but are few and generally non-significant. So why people gamble in Diablo 2? Apart from said exceptions, it's a method to sink _excess_ gold. I.e. gold which has no better use.

Considering how developed, detailed and deep Diablo 2 (closed Battle.net) was, this is quite a proof that gambling can't do better; if it could, then it'd be implemented in Diablo 2 better. So i tend to think that if gamble has odds against player, then it can only sink "excess" of in-game currency. I.e., whenever in-game currency is needed for what player wants, AND player can buy it in other way(s) than gambling, AND gambling's chances are against the player, - people just grind and buy what they want.

Sure, some guys just love the process of gambling. Heck, there is even a condition for extreme cases, - ludomania. But i think only tiny fraction of MWO players have that strong, or even half that strong, a gambler's spirit. Thus, the mechanic will probably not be any popular, and considering difficulties with implementing and balancing, is probably not worth the effort - not at this stage of MWO development, at least...

Sorry if my opinion disappoints or discourages; i was fair, and i am sorry it led me to heavy critic of your idea. Best wishes, man.

Edited by FinsT, 10 October 2013 - 06:17 AM.

[Phoenix Branson]

FinsT, on 10 October 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

The community will find out very quickly whether such a gambling is a net gain or net loss. For it to work at all, it must be net gain for players - and substantial one with that (otherwise noone will invest C-bills nor MC into it). However, if it is significant net gain, then it will increase the pace of grind significantly. The pace is in place for a reason. In order to compensate this new gambling system, quite soon and quite inevitably, the grind itself will be re-balanced to be slower in its basic form.

End result, in a few months, will be slower basic grind and nearly "mandatory" nature of the gambling system for any persisting player - in other words, this will do nothing, in the long run, except to make the grind more random.

Which is kind of is the intent, as far as i can tell.

The question then is, would it be better? For me, the answer is "no". I understand the reason behind long grinds (hey, should it be easy and quick, everyone would have everything, and nobody would value anything, right?). However, randomizing it? No thanks. I don't want to spend weeks or months cursing Lady Luck about desired items never "dropping" for me, - and having to do double or triple -long grind to get what i want "the usual way" (because it was slowed even more to compensate the gambling system).

I dont understand the argument. If you dont want to gamble, pick the free option and get your c-bills. If you want to take a risk, pay c-bills or MC and see if you can get that shiny new mech. People play the lottery even though the odds are against them.

Thoughts?

[Darth Buddha]

House should take 20%

For example....

They could be doing a project Phoenix raffle..


Charge 10 mc a ticket.... Take 20% off the top.... Then give away the rest at random. based on how many people got in on the raffle.....

[DocBach]

Maverick01, on 10 October 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I dont understand the argument. If you dont want to gamble, pick the free option and get your c-bills. If you want to take a risk, pay c-bills or MC and see if you can get that shiny new mech. People play the lottery even though the odds are against them.

Thoughts?

Almost every other free to play game has lockboxes that drop and require some sort of currency to unlock.

Salvage works best for the game universe of MechWarrior.

A lot of people will just use the free option and get c-bills for their salvage.

However, some people enjoy taking chances and having different tiers of risk and incentive can get people to put money be it virtual c-bills or real money MC to "hire" Elite and Master techs for a chance at something more.

Edited by DocBach, 10 October 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[LauLiao]

Here's the problem: who gets the chance to salvage a destroyed mech? With your proposed system, you'll have fast light mechs running around trying to kill-steal so they can rack up the C-bills. Wouldn't encourage team play, especially within pugs. Might be more viable with premade groups, but still gonna cause drama.

[DocBach]

LauLiao, on 10 October 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

Here's the problem: who gets the chance to salvage a destroyed mech? With your proposed system, you'll have fast light mechs running around trying to kill-steal so they can rack up the C-bills. Wouldn't encourage team play, especially within pugs. Might be more viable with premade groups, but still gonna cause drama.

You mean this doesn't happen already?

[FinsT]

DocBach, on 10 October 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

You mean this doesn't happen already?

He probably means it'll happen much more often and to greater extent.

[TychoTheItinerant]

NO. No more moneysinking, no gambling mechanics, NO.

[Hythos]

Darth Buddha, on 10 October 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

Only for death match's.. Winner Keeps anything that's left...

BUT you have to pay to fix dmg on your mech and the prize mech...

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/137502-grandtheft-mech-on-line-real-hardcore-mode

I tried working up an idea that was a work-in-progress..... but kinda seemed to go away.
Having all players (regardless of the 'mode') in a single queue could prevent griefing/team-killing, and provide a mechanism to players who 'opt-in' (for lack of a better description) to still have a chance to win / lose hardware... at no expense / money-sink.

[627]

I don't like the gambling mechanic but i would love to salvage "something" and not jsut C-bills.

Afaik the current system looks which components are still intact from the destroyed mechs, then it "sells" these components and every winning player gets a percentage from that sum. The more you leg, the more engines stay alive, the more salvage money.

What i would like is a pool of items that "survive" - of course big guns have to be rare as a PPC or AC20 costs like 500k-600k or so, but just drop some lasers or heatsinks or something like that.

Average item value could be current average salvage or a bit more because selling that item for cash gives you only 50%.

This way you could always see some fancy pictures of found items or weapons at the end of the round and maybe sometimes you find that BAP you never would have bought anyway. but now lets try it...

Would be much more interesting imho and no active gambling required.