43 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

mike29tw, on 28 September 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

lol what's the difference? It's not like PGI is paying any attention to our feedback anyway.


That's not a fact. That's your speculation.

They couldnt possibly follow the player feedback as a blueprint, they are under construction. Something that takes alot of concentration and blah blah blah.

But that they dont pay attention to player reviews, ideas, inspiration, and many other things isnt correct. Reread previous page post edited it again.

Also out of sheer boredom I bet they read these forums sometimes

Edited by Johnny Z, 28 September 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[Sandpit]

dymlos2003, on 27 September 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Stop asking questions about things we don't know.

As opposed to questions we do know the answers too......? I'm confused now lol

[Johnny Z]

Sandpit, on 28 September 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

As opposed to questions we do know the answers too......? I'm confused now lol

Agreed, thats why the OP's post was a good read, may not be 100%(much like my replies ) but covers the upcoming content well.

Edited by Johnny Z, 28 September 2013 - 06:06 AM.

[Sandpit]

Pgi has never had a problem with having high aspirations. If everything they ever announced was implemented in a somewhat decent timeframe this game would be killing it in the ratings department. They need to roll out the lobbies and is map and let players go at it and give some of is a reason to start spending money again.

[Xendojo]

Are you guys for real?

This was just a move to get the community off PGI's collective backs about CW. They didn't give us anything concrete because it does not exist. All the holes pointed out in the OP don't really matter, because most of this stuff will change anyway.

That presentation was a rough draft of all the ideas they have for CW, nothing more. And i should mention that most of what was in that "presentation" has been on the drawing board for a long time now.

On a personal note, i was disgusted by the shameless Project Phoenix plug, and by the fact that my Founders mech will probably never have any other boosts applied to it.

[Sandpit]

Xendojo, on 28 September 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Are you guys for real?

This was just a move to get the community off PGI's collective backs about CW. They didn't give us anything concrete because it does not exist. All the holes pointed out in the OP don't really matter, because most of this stuff will change anyway.

That presentation was a rough draft of all the ideas they have for CW, nothing more. And i should mention that most of what was in that "presentation" has been on the drawing board for a long time now.

On a personal note, i was disgusted by the shameless Project Phoenix plug, and by the fact that my Founders mech will probably never have any other boosts applied to it.

I agree to an extent. I think it was more a ploy to hope for better reviews from the pros to be honest. Pgi has demonstrated time and again that they are gamers making a game as opposed to a multi-million dollar company designing a consumer product

Edited by Sandpit, 28 September 2013 - 07:30 AM.

[Morashtak]

Comments, snarky or otherwise, in a presentation should not be uttered ("fainting", etc). The presentation was good but the presenter was... not so good. He needed to keep it professional with no banter directed at his own staff. Confidence, utter and complete, was needed here. Not pointed jabs at his own team.

I agree that the points mentioned were slightly polished ideas of what we already know via threads posted as long as two years ago. A slight polishing was not what was needed; a knock-my-socks-off-and-call-me-Susie moment was needed. All those screams you heard were not approval for new ideas but were simply exclamations of relief that the current ideas hadn't been lost and forgotten after all this time.

As for those that wish people wouldn't comment or question PGI on these "new" features I would submit that we have been commenting and questioning PGI for two years and all we get is a slightly polished re-hash of what we already know. How does this sit those of us that have been here since the forums went live? Not well. Not well at all. If we don't bring our concerns and questions to these forums how do we know that these features are going to be implemented in a workable form, not easily exploited, and above else fun?

These features need complete, well thought out, clear individual post from the devs. Anything close to "We already told you all this during the launch party" is going to result in howls of disgust and derision. Granted, we don't need details down to how it's going to be coded but much, much more than "Player A writes a contract and Player B accepts it" is required.

My biggest concern is the economy - Without repair and re-arm as well as equipment and mech loss there is no reason for a player that already has a mech bay full of mechs and equipment to even care that planets are won or lost. This will only affect the new player and then for only a few more matches until they accumulate the additional C-bills.

This is what we mean when we say a feature is not well thought out or presented in a fully fleshed out form - If I have 100's of millions of c-bills banked and 40+ mechs in the bay when CW rolls out why should I care that a planet has been won or lost? Seriously, anyone, give me a valid reason for why should I care. Faction pride? Okay, a bit. But we'll get it back. After all there are only so many planets in play as "core" planets can never be won or lost (and that is from a very old post). If you think fighting on the same maps are bad now how is fighting over the same planets in CW going to be accepted later?

TL:DR - Thanks, PGI, but we already knew this. What about the details? When? How? And more importantly - Why?

[Henree]

hmmm salvage rights

[Riptor]

dymlos2003, on 27 September 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

*says something about PGI not having any skill or anything and being negative* Am I doing it right?


Didn't he say that this was a basic presentation and a command chair post will follow? Stop asking questions about things we don't know.

How DARE we ask questions about things we dont know!

Everyone knows that any normal thinking human only asks about things HE ALLREADY KNOWS!

The nerve of some people!

[Heffay]

PGI not explaining some of the details in the OP is the exact same as none of those issues actually being worked on...

Reminds me of an old joke. How do you keep a room full of computer gamers in suspense?

[Listless Nomad]

dymlos2003, on 27 September 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Didn't he say that this was a basic presentation and a command chair post will follow?

I'll just hop in my time machine and go back to the beginning of April and check out Bryan's "detailed command chair posts on CW" throughout the month, or was it May, or was it July that we were supposed to get those? I must have missed them.

Maybe I should use an alternate universe machine instead.

I don't trust a single word that comes out of that man's mouth. The game is fun-ish, but when it comes to timelines I don't even bother with dates anymore. Info comes when it comes and that's all I expect.

Edited by Listless Nomad, 28 September 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[Capfailboat]

Darius Deadeye, on 28 September 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

Maximizing standing for ALL factions in order to join the Wolf's Dragoons is the dumbest deal and/or gamebreaker I've heard them wanting to implement. There will no faction loyalty WHATSOEVER, no RP immersion for faction specific loyalists, and everybody will be jumping ship not once, twice, thrice, but four freaking times. Come on. YOU CAN DO BETTER PGI, SURELY.

Endgame? Everybody is part of the Wolf's Dragoons?? Equal standing with all factions?!?

Surely SOMEBODY at PGI must have read a book or two about Battletech, and SOMEBODY at PGI must have come to the realization that some of these factions outright HATE each other.

I had the same thoughts. In other MMO's if you grind a particular faction, you lose faction vs its opposition. (i.e Qeynos vs. Freeport) Ideally you should HAVE to grind faction to have acces to a particular feature set and then grind the opposite faction to get it's rewards. Honestly, I'm not one of those kids that can't play a video game. I don't want the devs to pander to the lowest common denominator. This player base is older. I want things difficult to get so there is exclusivity and a digital, tangible reward for my time or money investment.

[Capfailboat]

Morashtak, on 28 September 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

My biggest concern is the economy - Without repair and re-arm as well as equipment and mech loss there is no reason for a player that already has a mech bay full of mechs and equipment to even care that planets are won or lost. This will only affect the new player and then for only a few more matches until they accumulate the additional C-bills.

I don't think mechs will be the big draw to grind faction or control planets. I am hoping specific weapon manufacturers wares will be available for purchase with different perks. Imagine UACs with a lower jam rate, or PPCs with less heat, pulse lasers with better range...etc.

[Listless Nomad]

Frankly I'm not too concerned about the details as they've been presented. It's readily apparent that these are pretty immature designs and as time goes on the ideas will solidify.

An intelligent way to present the grind would be to have only the lone wolf mercenaries be able to join Wolfs Dragoons. The majority of pilots will fall into the "lone wolf/lone mercenary" category, and it makes far more sense for them to have to play each House without losing faction standing. Besides, the WD are MERCENARIES. Why would a faction player have an interest in joining a merc corp? They are supposedly loyal to a house.

Instead, implement a separate dynamic reputation system for faction players that has penalties for betraying your house. If a faction player decides to leave his house and go lone wolf, he would keep his reputation with the house he just served as a head start to getting to the WD level.

Players in official merc corps would be handled similarly. If you leave the merc corp to become a lone wolf, you keep a portion of your old merc corps' faction standing as a head start to getting each house to level 60. This provides an incentive for people to play as a lone wolf (exclusive access to WD decals and colors) and leaves faction warfare a little more immersive.

Edited by Listless Nomad, 28 September 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Lostdragon]

Let me preface this by saying I want MWO to succeed and I want PGI to make gobs of money off of it so it will be viable for a long, long time.

That being said, this presentation was mostly a rehash of Dev Blog 1 ( http://mwomercs.com/...mmunity-warfare ), which was released in Dec of 2011, along with other bits of info talked about in interviews and podcasts. PGI has been promising details on CW for a year now and this is the first time they have actually given us anything and while they mentioned some new features like contracts, leveling to 60, etc. the details were very sparse and they did not go into many specifics.

Bryan basically said that CW is still in the concept stage. That means there has been no work done on it other than rough designs. Given the amount of work and testing that will be required to make CW as presented a reality, I would imagine we are at least a year (maybe more) from seeing anything that remotely resembles the full system Bryan outlined.

CW is either a very long time away or is vaporware. I sure hope they can pull it off and make it great, but they have pretty much exhausted all their good will with a large part of the community through their own foolishness. Right now the big question in my mind is can MWO remain afloat as is long enough for the major features of community warfare to be implemented? I think a lot of people's interest is dwindling and a lot of the reviews aren't pretty, so that is not going to help attract new players. I truly believe the long term viability of MWO is hinged on CW. Without an end game, you don't keep players buying into your game.

[Morashtak]

CapnFaiiboat, on 28 September 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

I don't think mechs will be the big draw to grind faction or control planets. I am hoping specific weapon manufacturers wares will be available for purchase with different perks. Imagine UACs with a lower jam rate, or PPCs with less heat, pulse lasers with better range...etc.

While I appreciate the thinking outside the box what you're asking for is more weapon balancing. Haven't we had enough of that hamster wheel?

IF the economy was to be implemented fully it would include;

• Raw material planets. Raw mats would need transportation lines to factories.
  
• Factory planets that need x amount of raw materials delivered over x amount of days/weeks.
  
• Food production planets to feed the people (morale) which impacts manufacturing rates and planet morale (how easy/tough it is to take a planet).
  
• Garrison planets that buff nearby planets (domino effect).
  
• Loss of equipment and mechs.*
  
• Fluctuating prices based on the aforementioned points.
  
• Other points mentioned in many other posts.

Would this make things too real and too complicated for a jump-in-and-shoot-someone-in-the-face game? Yep. But that's how one makes the economy have a discernible impact which affects a players decisions.

Only time will tell on what we get and how it will or won't affect or decisions.

* - Mech destruction; This would not necessarily be done in one game but using a repair and re-arm mechanic cause the mech to slowly degrade over the course of many, many matches. Think of equipment wear in any number of games. Instead of going to an NPC blacksmith for an instant fix a mech pilot spends c-bills and real time (real days of it being unavailable to play) to send their mech to a depot for a complete tear down and overhaul (back to 100%). If one takes a 1% mech into a game then they risk, if not ensure, that the mech will be totally destroyed. Levels of 2% and above would have a decreasing likelihood of total destruction but could still happen, albeit highly unlikely at 50% and better. Equipment can be handled likewise.

It's the economy, Stu.

[Novakaine]

Pfffft more carrots.
.

[Vila deVere]

Riptor, on 27 September 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

Nothing of this has been put in code yet. For all we know that powerpoint presentation is all they currently have concerning this topic.

Right now CW only exists in the Devs heads as a vague idea and that powerpoint presentation.

Absolutely. This was PowerPoint engineering at its worst, IMO. They've got nothing. CW in any meaningful sense is at least a year away.

I predict that PGI cancels CW in about 10 months. They'll claim they have made the game they wanted and that customers LOVE it. Pffft.

Edited by Vila deVere, 28 September 2013 - 12:56 PM.

[Appogee]

Given we're now well past the initial implementation date of ''3 months after closed beta'' and yet they're still saying CW is in the design phase and will be ''six months after UI 2.0'', then it's pretty clear that CW is just smoke and mirrors.

I doubt we will ever see it. In the meantime, ''be sure spend up on Hero Mechs and Clan Invasion Packs etc etc etc''.

I'm less certain what will kill the game first... player boredom from the lack of metagame, or lack of cashflow when the novelty of yet another chassis with pretty much the same hardpoints wears off for the majority of players.

I am sorry to be pessimistic. But seriously, when the post-launch presentation is just PowerPoint slides of stuff we mostly heard 2 years ago, none of which has actually even finished being designed let alone implemented, then it's time for us to see this situation for what it is.

[C E Dwyer]

Darius Deadeye, on 28 September 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

Maximizing standing for ALL factions in order to join the Wolf's Dragoons is the dumbest deal and/or gamebreaker I've heard them wanting to implement. There will no faction loyalty WHATSOEVER, no RP immersion for faction specific loyalists, and everybody will be jumping ship not once, twice, thrice, but four freaking times. Come on. YOU CAN DO BETTER PGI, SURELY.

Endgame? Everybody is part of the Wolf's Dragoons?? Equal standing with all factions?!?

Surely SOMEBODY at PGI must have read a book or two about Battletech, and SOMEBODY at PGI must have come to the realization that some of these factions outright HATE each other.

erm no as I won't be joining wolf dragoons, its a merc unti