59 replies to this topic

[Thell]

As the title suggests, I am looking for input on Medium mechs. I messed around with a Hunchback 4g in closed beta and I enjoyed it quite a bit but I am looking for opinions on the other Mediums. I don't need top mobility as long as I can move quick enough and do my job for whatever loadout I am using. I tend to not use missiles much and go for lasers and ballistics so there is that but I would basically prefer one that can take somewhat of a beating and work well with the Blackjack a friend of mine plans on using.

[Shadey99]

While amazingly fragile, I still love my Cicadas... They are also one of the few mechs that can do a bit of everything...

The 3M has ECM and energy and ballistics slots.
The 3C has even more ballistic slots and a token energy slot.
The 2A & 2B are energy heavy build somewhat similar to the Jenenr Fs and Ks.
The X-5 is the sole missile carrier and while not for everyone it can be made into a oddly effect missile platform of various types.

That said I find Hunchies and Blackjacks appealing to try out... And Cents are the ultimate 'zombies' with the invisible shield left over after they lose arms and side torsos... Kintaros now do make interesting missile boats... The only one I don't find at least somewhat appealing is the Treb... And given a couple more weeks Phoenix package buyers can have shiny new Shadowhawks which we will have to wait and see how they turn out...

However I'm not sure which to suggest in your situation any medium can make a nice pair for a Blackjack, even another blackjack... The Blackjack itself is a direct fire support platform in stock build like a smaller, sometimes faster, Jager. A Cicada would flank and you and the BJ would catch unwary opponents in the middle. Hunchies would go in first as they tend to be more 'brawlers' and the BJ would support from nearby. Cents would work much the same way. Kintaros do the reverse letting the BJ mark targets and then bring some pain to the target or crush incoming lights...

[Thell]

That is another thing I would really like is to be able to deal with light mechs easier, they annoy me to no end.

[PropagandaWar]

I have over a thousand (Registered) matches just in my hunchback sp. (5 med lasers, 2 srm 4s, 2 tons ammo, 250 engine, DHS Endo) I love that thing. However the cents are great, A cicada 3m with a uac 5 3 meds is fun XL engine) Kintaro can be cool. Black Jack AC/20 3 med lasers awww yeah. That are all great mechs. Well except for the piece of poo Trenchbucket. Thing turns like poo, has no arm or torso movement t speak of.

oh slap some streaks and bap on the cents, kints and hunchies instead of Standard SRM's for even better kill ability on lights.

[Cuddlytron]

For Mediums, I've only piloted Hunchbacks, and I have absolutely no desire to try any of the others. Freakin' LOVE my Hunchies, especially the energy and ballistic variants (4G FTW). 4SP and 4J are still very good, too, but missiles just aren't my thing.

I also pilot Cataphracts and Jagermechs, but Hunchies still hold the top spots for highest scoring matches (highest kills, dmg, etc.) for me.

[RandomLurker]

Thell, on 24 September 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

I don't need top mobility as long as I can move quick enough and do my job for whatever loadout I am using.

You nailed the core requirement of a good Medium pilot right there, the one most people miss when discarding medium mechs as trash. The next question is what job will you be doing?

Mediums are very good Strikers, hanging around the edge of a battle until you see an opening or an ally in need and move in. They have a enough firepower to hurt, and enough mobility to get it to where it's needed. The hard part is being aware of the battle and figuring out where that is. Every medium mech (except perhaps the Cicada, which can play like a light mech if wanted) does this in some form. They just cant dish out or take a beating like the bigger mechs, and can't get out of dodge like the lighter ones, so timing and position is key. On a good day, be prepared to rack up chains of kills that would make an Ilya blush. On a bad day, prepare to go down like a legged spider.

Enough waxing poetic. Blackjack is a good energy sniper, or AC/2 sniper. Lack of arm actuators make it a poor infighter. The various Hunchies carry a lot of firepower, but have only moderate mobility. My favorite is the 4-SP, since you can put a big engine on it and not sacrifice firepower. Also, no "shoot me here" hump. They have a great twist range and make good infighters, but don't mistake that for a brawler, you don't have the armor. Pick targets carefully. Trebuchet is a good light fire support- put precise LRM firepower out with Artemis (aka, in visual range) on targets your team needs focused down, plus a lot of energy hardpoints for backup weapons. Treb 5J is special beast of it's own, with 5 fully actuated arm energy hardpoints and JJ it can be a deadly laser scalpel (as long as you play with arm lock off!). Kintaro makes either a great light hunter with streaks, or a back nibbler with massed SRMs.

Overall, go for solid builds with a defined range bracket. Don't go for all-rounders, you don't have the spare tonnage for that, but make sure you aren't defenseless close in either. Avoid gimmicks like high-speed AC/20 carriers, or pure SRM carriers. You'll get some cheap kills, but never truly turn a battle. You give up too many things for that one gimmick.

If you can't decide, go for the Treb. It's got at least one variant for almost every possible build. Downside is it's large and easy to aim at though, so if you have a strategy or weapon type that you like, find the best mech for that and go with it. Second runner up for the indecisive is the Hunchie 4-SP, a good all round mech without any strong flaws.

Edited by RandomLurker, 24 September 2013 - 07:30 PM.

[eblackthorn]

At one point I would have said the centurion... now, I love the Blackjack. It has a small profile good speed, good laser/ballistic mounts and jump jets.

[Bishop Steiner]

My 2 cts as a Medium Lover:

CENTURION
pros: Takes a beating that makes assault mechs blush. Good blend of speed and firepower, and have a mix of pretty much EVERYTHING available. Run XLs or Standards with equal aplomb.

cons: None really. Large for weight, but don't seem to hindered by it. Myth that Zombie builds are needed to be useful.

HUNCHBACK
pros: Tough, with a very compact silhouette. Can carry a lot of firepower. Looks cool. amazing torso rotation.

cons: Hunch draws fire. Low speed. This combination largely rules out XL engines, limiting total speed and firepower compared to other mechs in class.

KINTARO
pros: Carry one HECK of a lot of missiles. Can have decent speed. Good armor and weapon distribution. USe XLs well.

cons: CT is still a bit of a shot magnet, enhancing it's XL capability, but because you will probably die from CT coring anyhow.

BLACKJACK
pros: High mount weapons. Excellent light sniper/support unit, small silhouette. Most can jump.

cons: Fragile. Light armor for speed. Can run VERY hot.

CICADA:
pros: Darn fast. Small profile, often mistaken for Jenner at a distance. 3M can carry ECM. Can mount a heavy weapon with support weapons.

cons: Fragile. No arm reflex limits firing arcs. Not enough mass to maximize hardpoints.

TREBUCHET:
pros: Versatile. Decent Speed and Firepower.

cons: Honking huge! Non symmetrical hardpoints muddy assigning fire-groups.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

This is what I used to use in Early CB before moving on to the Dragon

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...370b4cc66762292

Primary weapons are 2xPPC

Secondary are 4x sLas & 2xSRM6@1

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 September 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

KINTARO
pros: Carry one HECK of a lot of missiles. Can have decent speed. Good armor and weapon distribution. USe XLs well.

cons: CT is still a bit of a shot magnet, enhancing it's XL capability, but because you will probably die from CT coring anyhow.

Maybe it's just me on my island, but the Kintaro resizing made the side torsos pretty darn big. I started grinding them a week ago and virtually every death of mine has been by side-torso removal (XL engines), and when I survive my sides are usually the most damaged parts of the body.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 24 September 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

Maybe it's just me on my island, but the Kintaro resizing made the side torsos pretty darn big. I started grinding them a week ago and virtually every death of mine has been by side-torso removal (XL engines), and when I survive my sides are usually the most damaged parts of the body.

well, I just started them a week ago. Got em all mastered, and have only a few ST deaths. 2 out of 3 are XL. The Standard has been pretty solid too, surprising since it's pretty slow. It might actually have balanced torsos.

[Johnny Reb]

Thell, on 24 September 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

That is another thing I would really like is to be able to deal with light mechs easier, they annoy me to no end.

Without streaks, not gonna happen. Only way to deal with lights easy.

Bishop Steiner, on 24 September 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

well, I just started them a week ago. Got em all mastered, and have only a few ST deaths. 2 out of 3 are XL. The Standard has been pretty solid too, surprising since it's pretty slow. It might actually have balanced torsos.

Since the redesign my current fav medium is my KTO-18 with 5 streaks and xl360. I gladly trade side kills for what it used to be..only center!

[Gaan Cathal]

Johnny Reb, on 24 September 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

Without streaks, not gonna happen. Only way to deal with lights easy.

Incorrect, IMO. Good Centurion (and Blackjack but there's a lot less of them, apparently) pilots are my worst non-light nightmare in a light. Streakboats are either squishy or out-runnable, generally, quite besides which my MLAS armament does a damn sight more damage at 300m than a Kintaro's SSRM volleys do at the same range.

[Johnny Reb]

Gaan Cathal, on 24 September 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Incorrect, IMO. Good Centurion (and Blackjack but there's a lot less of them, apparently) pilots are my worst non-light nightmare in a light. Streakboats are either squishy or out-runnable, generally, quite besides which my MLAS armament does a damn sight more damage at 300m than a Kintaro's SSRM volleys do at the same range.

Heh, ok how about this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0e986ce9784d096
dare any light to try and duel me. However, my kintaro runs better against the heavier guys also!
Also, what makes you a GOOD, cent pilot or judge of one anyway?
Also if your a light and keep out of my 270 range for streaks while hitting me to do anything in ml range. I say your the best light pilot ever! Of coarse this if I am pursuing you, can snip anything.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 24 September 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Johnny Reb, on 24 September 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

Heh, ok how about this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0e986ce9784d096
dare any light to try and duel me. However, my kintaro runs better against the heavier guys also!

Against my primary light ride that looses, in a hypothetical 1v1. However, that's chiefly because it's an ECM mech with a 20kph speed advantage to keep it outside 150m of you.

Johnny Reb, on 24 September 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

Also, what makes you a GOOD, cent pilot or judge of one anyway?
Also if your a light and keep out of my 270 range for streaks while hitting me to do anything in ml range. I say your the best light pilot ever! Of coarse this if I am pursuing you, can snip anything.

Being as I've never run a Cent myself my ability to discern exactly what things they do that make them good is limited to the things I can observe. What qualifies them as good, to me, is the ability to either kill me or come close. Chiefly it appears to involve knowing where to shoot (target mech dependant, Jenners in their big fat face, Ravens in the legs, Spiders in the legs, Commandos anywhere you damn well like) and the ability to hit a moving target. The ones that really cause me trouble tend to be running high-calibre ACs (the classic being a Yen-Lo with an AC/20 of course, but I've had scrapes with more standard Cents using AC/10s or UAC/5s as well). It used to be that the Splat-Cent worked, but poor hitreg and sub-par damage/missile values have mostly put paid to that lately.

As for the range kiting, obviously the light will be well into the Medium Laser's falloff range, but even if he's only doing 90% damage with his lasers, his target's SSRMs are doing 0% damage so he still (eventually) wins. Obviously this depends a lot on how much backup laser the SSRM-carrier is running. If he has ECM he can happily sit between 200-300m doing (essentially) full damage with his lasers and using his own missiles.

It's worth noting that I'm probably picking out Cent pilots not because they're a better mech for light hunting than other mediums, but that with the Blackjack and Kintaro both fairly new, a higher proportion of the pilots you see in Centurions are going to be good with them, because they're more likely to be electing to use a Centurion (and have it elited), and that means they're more inclined to be experienced/good with it than the more...varied...calibre of pilot in the newer mechs.

[Hans Von Lohman]

My favorite medium is the Centurion. It is especially effective when you learn to use the left arm as a shield.

There are some who believe the Centurion needs to have a standard engine and get in close to brawl, and ditch the arm gun for lots of SRM missiles.

I am not one of those and I use my Centurions with the biggest XL engines they fit (the 275XL) and go for hit and runs.

I also find that having a big gun that shoots at a lower rate of fire also helps. You get in, fire your big shot, and then get out of the way. Smaller guns like the AC-5 or AC-2 just mean you need to be out in the open too much as you fire away.

All that you really need to know about the Centurion is that the 2 medium lasers in the CT are sort of standard. You could go with something else, but the medium lasers work well as they are and I would leave them alone in every build.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 25 September 2013 - 12:38 AM.

[Lord Ikka]

I'm a Hunchback driver. I've mastered Cicadas, Centurions, Trebuchets, and am working on Kintaros, but nothing beats a Hunchie for me. Perfect blend of speed, armor, and weapons to take down any enemy. Of course, they're not the best at any one particular thing, but I find that Mediums in general work as good 2nd line fighters, coming into the fray after the big boys have engaged and mopping up all the damaged Mechs they can see.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lord Ikka, on 25 September 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

I'm a Hunchback driver. I've mastered Cicadas, Centurions, Trebuchets, and am working on Kintaros, but nothing beats a Hunchie for me. Perfect blend of speed, armor, and weapons to take down any enemy. Of course, they're not the best at any one particular thing, but I find that Mediums in general work as good 2nd line fighters, coming into the fray after the big boys have engaged and mopping up all the damaged Mechs they can see.

Amen Ikka!

HBK-4G is still my pet ride.

[Devil Fox]

I think Hunch and Cent's are the thing to do the job here... enough speed vs firepower. Blackjack's and Cicada's compromise on hitboxes, speed and weapon payloads to survive long... the kintaro is too missile based for your prefered style.

I've mastered every medium but the Kintaro... I've learnt not to play pokemon now with many a dud machine in my mechbays now...

[DarkDevilDancer]

Cents are good and able to take a pounding, equip streaks and you can be a terror to lights or take srms to tear up the rear of heavier mechs, just don't count on keeping that ballistic arm even when you try to protect it people will take it out fast.

Trebs are some of the fastest mediums so that lets you out manoeuvre heavier mechs and use cover, good if you like energy builds I'd advise against using the K it's not really got the weight to use the torso ballistic slot.

Blackjack are slow and not to heavily armoured but they are small and can jump so if you learn to use that mobility to your advantage you can make a pain of yourself.

Hunch backs I've never really liked the fact most of your weapons are in one spot that's easy to hit makes them too easy to gimp, maybe wait until weight limits come into effect.