24 replies to this topic

[Jaegerwulf]

I apologize if I missed a similar topic when I searched for one.

are there any guidelines anywhere for assigning armor to mech locations? this is where I always fail when trying to modify/upgrade mechs.... so in the game itself I genereally leave armor alone unless the mech comes with ff and I need to down grade to standard...

note, links to other forum articles or guides and such are more than welcome

Edited by Jaegerwulf, 29 September 2013 - 10:45 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

Maxing out armor is never a bad option when first starting out. One can reduce leg armor but I never lower mine blow what the arms have. Torso armor is trickier and dependent on your play style. I tend to run about 80% front 20% back armor. I know some people do 60 / 40 because they want to torso twist and distribute damage over a wider area.

[Commander Binz]

My personal strategy is the heavier the mech, the less armour needs to go on the legs.

Atlas normally has around 20% armour, no-one ever shoots an Atlas in the leg! However, on a light like a Raven or Jenner, you should always max leg armour just to survive the first light v light battle you have.

You can do some interesting things with certain mechs to drop some weight, so long as you dont have an XL engine, like a Dragon 5N, jam PPCs into one arm and then drop all the armour off the other arm/torso, but you will have to get used to that arm popping off every game!

[Jaynestown]

I generally do some set armor rating on the rear torso based on the mech weight class. Medium mechs I'll do 12 ST (rear) and 18 CT (rear). Heavy mechs I'll do 16 ST (rear) and 24 CT (rear). There are a couple mechs that I change this up on, like the HBK variants. The ST hit box is really different based on the size of the hunch (front side) so I'll do 8 ST on that side and 12 ST on the other.

Why use a fixed value for rear armor and not a percentage of total armor? I look at it like buying do-overs for piloting errors. Rear armor just needs to take a couple shots for me, no matter what mech I am piloting. If I up my chassis to a heavy mech, maybe I want to take one more shot. But otherwise, like if I'm just upping my tonnage by plus/minus 5 tons, it shouldn't be changing how often I let my back on the enemy. I think the added armor allowance in those cases is much better spent on the forward side.

[Modo44]

You can usually strip some leg armor on medium and heavier mechs. You can strip arm and hear armor on lights. If an arm has no weapons, you may want to take its armor down a bit. Take as little back armor as you can (depending on how good you are at not showing your mech's back to the opponents).

If you put ammo in a location, make sure it it protected. Many Jagerbomb pilots have fallen to leg ammo explosions because of see-through leg armor. It is usually safe to lower the leg armor to whatever you use on the front side torsos. Going lower can be dangerous.

Edited by Modo44, 01 October 2013 - 08:42 AM.

[Jaynestown]

I don't know about stripping leg armor. It usually has a cap about equal to the total armor value (front plus rear) for the side torso above it. For example, Ilya can have 40 front 20 back ST armor, and 60 leg armor. I don't usually strip more than a half ton off the legs (8pts each), since they can be hit both from the front and the back. I might remove more only if I don't have any ammo stored in that location and if I don't have jump jets.

Always cover your ammo no matter where it is stored. Preferably with armor and with crit padding.

[Bront]

I generally won't drop the legs lower than the arms. It also depends on the mech. Cents get legged on occasion, so they need more armor there % wise than, say, a Stalker or Atlas.

Generally I max out armor everywhere else, though I might drop a point or two from the head on some light mechs. On light mechs, the leg armor is even more important.

Rear armor is dependant on your build and loadout. Slower mechs I tend to move a bit more armor to the rear just in case, and light mechs will take a few rear shots if they're mixing it up.

[Jaegerwulf]

as always some awesome answers, but say I have 320 points of armor to allocate, how much of the total should go to torsos, arms, and legs?

[Bront]

In a what?

In a jenner? YOu can't use that much. In an Atlas? Get yourself some more armor boy!

armor totals are useless without context.

Is it a mech with a shield arm(s)? you don't need to max out the arm(s). Do you get cored a lot? You can probably shave a little off the legs, or maybe even a side torso. Are you fast or slow? Might change how much rear armor you need. Getting legged a lot? Better beef up that leg armor.

It is often not only chasis dependant, but build dependant, as some builds can shift armor a bit because of where they end up on the battle field and where their important parts are.

[GreyZ7]

You can pretty safely drop head armor down to somewhere around 6-10

6 Armor is enough to survive a AC20 shot in the head, which is pretty unlikely. You'll usually only get glanced by lasers and lrms. Leg and torso armor is much more important.

Though this also depends on the chassis, a few are a bit easier to hit in the head (Cataphracts imho get hit there more frequently than other chassis)

And generally leg armor can be reduced on heavy and assault chassis, around 40 should be enough in most cases.

Edited by kai hohiro, 02 October 2013 - 02:43 PM.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Really simple guideline - max everything but the legs.

[wintersborn]

On this topic, If you have a arm or in some mechs a arm shield and you do not need it for weapons or heat sinks etc. You obviously can strip it of armor but what happens when the un needed arm gets blown off?

Does the damage bleed into the torso or does it cause critical effects etc. something besides just exposing the torso?

[Bront]

Damage bleed happens at a 50% reduced rate if they hit the remaining part of that mech.

[Drakari]

Generally speaking, drop arms and legs partway before you even consider going below max on any part of your torso, unless you've built it specifically such that you can sacrifice an entire half your mech without losing any capabilities (e.g. the Yen-Lo with absolutely no hardpoints left of CT and running a standard engine). The cockpit is rarely targeted because they're so small, unless you're in a Catapult, but there's not much armor there to start with. 6-10 is enough to save you in most situations from a single well-placed alpha, but occasionally you do run into that guy who can headshot you with dual gauss from 600m away.

Other than that, it all depends on the mech. The Blackjack and Jager have really tiny arms that nobody aims for and can't shield you no matter how hard you try, it's fine to drop that armor a lot lower than on something like an Atlas that has giant shoulders counting as arms that block shots from every direction. Legs are generally a good place to put your ammo, but everybody knows that so you've gotta put armor there too or else some lights will take a quick sweep and start cooking your ammo when they see you've got not a whole lot to stop them. You could move the ammo to somewhere else like your arms, but in the end legged is legged and nobody wants to be legged.

Front-back ratios are pretty personal, though mechs have their own quirks as well. The Jenner's front CT is MASSIVE relative to everything else on that mech, so it's probably better to avoid putting too much on the back even if that means your back is vulnerable. The Hunchback hunch all counts as front CT, but extends all the way around and covers up a lot of the back so you can put 90-95% forward without much danger. Atlases can be easily circled by pretty much anything, so unless you've got a good team working with you slightly reduced frontline damage sponging could be worth living long enough to take care of the little pests hitting you from behind.

There's not a whole lot more to say unless you come back with a specific mech.

[GeorgieBoy39]

My opinion on armor is that if the armor never gets destroyed then you have too much on that component. Having armor that never gets destroyed is like having a weapon you never fire. Obviously the CT armor will nearly always get destroyed, but if you find yourself getting cored from the front with armor still on your back you may want to consider redistributing it. Most mechs can afford to drop to 11-14 armor on the head. Also I tend to like mechs where I can drop a ton of armor from a useless arm. Pay attention to your paper doll when you die and try to keep track of components that rarely get stripped.

[Bront]

GeorgieBoy39, on 14 October 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

My opinion on armor is that if the armor never gets destroyed then you have too much on that component. Having armor that never gets destroyed is like having a weapon you never fire. Obviously the CT armor will nearly always get destroyed, but if you find yourself getting cored from the front with armor still on your back you may want to consider redistributing it. Most mechs can afford to drop to 11-14 armor on the head. Also I tend to like mechs where I can drop a ton of armor from a useless arm. Pay attention to your paper doll when you die and try to keep track of components that rarely get stripped.

This sounds like a good idea, but it isn't in practice. Rear armor is there for the just in case or strategic retreat moments. If it's not there, you're in serious trouble. Now, if you find you never need it even in those situations, then you can drop it a bit. Same with arms or legs. Particularly legs, where if you skimp you'll suddently find yourself getting legged a lot.

[zagibu]

I usually strip quite a bit off the legs, but i rarely get legged. If I really need to squeeze a few hundred kilos more out of the mech, I also drop arm and cockpit armor a bit. I have only been killed by a headshot once in many many matches, and I sometimes run with as low as 12 armor on it. I generally also tend to have 80% front and 20% back armor, although it depends a bit on the role I intend to play. If you are a flanker, you'll probably need more back armor for rolling when you retreat from an unsuccessful flanking attempt. Also, the slow hulks need some back armor against light infestation on open maps.But I wouldn't go higher than 1/3 of the armor at the back, personally.

[Duncan Longwood]

I don't like to let my front CT armor drop below the tonnage of my mech. (ex. Atlas@100tons has 100 frontal CT armor) The rest gets balanced depending on what role I am playing with the mech.

While you can save tonnage by sacrificing armor from your legs, I would not advise lowering leg armor on lights nor mechs with jump-jets.

Some adjustments are very mech-specific, such as needing to front-load armor on the HBK's "hunch" or the cannon on the Atlas.

There are many chassis that have a useless arm that can be used as a damage-soaking shield or stripped of armor to save weight. (Spider, Centurion, 3/6 Awesome, 2/3 Shadowhawk, 2/3 Thunderbolt) Learn to torso-twist and be proud when you get that useless arm shot off.

Experiment and find what works for you.

[Muffinator]

In my experience between 30-50 depending on weight class is plenty of leg armor. Max armor on arms is often sensible even if no weapons, as they often act as shields (depending on mech). Always max torso armor on every mech IMO - to decide about front/rear ratios, look at the size of the component when selected in the mechlab - for example some hunchbacks have tiny rear right torsos so I run as low as 3-4 armor there and put the rest on the front. Keep an eye on which component gets taken out first in game and fine tune armor there eg if you lose a front torso more than rear change the armor ratio.

[Autobot9000]

You never want more armor on your rear than necessary to take a surprise shot, i.e. 10-20 is the maximum you want there on all mechs, I would tend to assign only 10 on all rear torsos (10-10-10). On a very slow front line brawler like an Atlas you can do 10-20-10 or 10-15-10, but thats already quite a lot.

Now why not more (e.g. people say they want to torso twist etc). Simple: Why would you assign armor to your rear only to create the need to show your rear to your opponent? If you think about it, there is absolutely no reason to do that. In TT some mechs had some minor armament on the rear (e.g. Archer with 2 MLs on the rear), but in MWO it is pointless to do that. So why is 10 points a good choice? Because that tends to be a common factor. It's an AC10s shot, 2xMLs or about a LL or a PPC. 10 just allows you to take one such surprise shot before your internals take damage. Taking more than 10 damage doesnt necessarily kill your mech, remember that even the engine can take 15 damage before it dies. As an example: If a Yen-Lo-Wang sneaks to your rear and get a AC20 round from point blank into your rear CT 10 points armor will be goen and 10 damage will enter to your internal - youre not gonna go down from that! Frankly with above named scheme I just cant remember the last time I died to a shot from the rear, it simply almost never happens.

You can lower your leg armor a bit, but I would always - no exception - strip armor from the torso or head. Also leg armor needs to be carefully evaluated how much you really want to strip. Remember that if your opponent finds out that a little fire almost critted you in the legs he might decide to continue working that way.

Edited by Autobot9000, 18 October 2013 - 05:21 AM.