139 replies to this topic

[OneEyed Jack]

Kaijin, on 30 September 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

It should only work when standing still, but the weight of the mech detected should play into detection range...At least if one were to apply the real world to this fantasy world.

If they were to apply actual physics, I'm pretty sure that even 20 tons stomping along on 2 feet would be plenty detectable across most, if not all, of any maps in this game, particularly at high speed.

100 tons is a lot. 20 tons is still... a lot.

As to my opinion, I don't feel all that strongly either way about Seismic, per se. What bothers me is the loss of at least a marginally reliable rear quasi-radar. I don't give a damn if I can spot mechs through hills, as long as it's mutual, but having no way to know that something is coming up behind me is a problem, and the main reason for using Seismic, to me.

I also agree with the view that the one-way, double-benefit nature of the change encourages getting behind a rock and standing there, waiting. In my mind, there's far too much of that, already, and encouraging more of it is a Bad Thing^TM.

PGI: Give us rear radar!

[FactorlanP]

I believe that seismic will still be useful for lights. A light will be able to sprint to a location where he suspects an enemy is on the other side of a hill or building or whatever. Pause briefly and possibly detect the mech on the other side.

Or a light can pause in a secluded spot momentarily and rely on seismic to let him know if he is in immediate danger.

[Roland]

I hear what you are saying, peef, but consider that by disabling seismic for moving mechs , it will actually help them once an actual engagement is taking place. Once mech's are fighting, it is rare that anyone is just standing still, for fear of getting head shot.

Additionally, the ability to create false seismic signature by shooting the ground provides light mechs with jj's some interesting new options.

[Eddrick]

LauLiao, on 30 September 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Um... Are you talking about thermal vision? It's in the game.

From the Table Top Rules. Heat Sensors is a Sensor Mode. Not a Visual Mode. It's mostly for, when your Visual Sensors are not working. We already have the other options for Sensor Modes from Table Top. Which, is Seismic Sensors and Visual Sensors. Heat Sensors would be a nice alternative to Seismic Sensors. http://rpol.net/disp...?gi=28846&ti=44

Quote

Infra red sensors: Ignore buildings and hills to detect 'hot' units. Units are not considered 'hot' unless exceeding their heat sinks in the heat phase. Every -1 MP due to heat increases detection range by one hex in each category. Each HW in LOS reduces maximum range in each category by one hex. Units that are not 'hot' are invisible to IR sensors.

Also, Magscan Sensors:

Quote

Magscan sensors: Ignore woods, blocked by hills and buildings. Units 80-100 tons increase detection range by one hex. Units smaller than 20 tons (including infantry) are invisible to magscan sensors.

Edited by Eddrick, 30 September 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

Roland, on 30 September 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

I hear what you are saying, peef, but consider that by disabling seismic for moving mechs , it will actually help them once an actual engagement is taking place. Once mech's are fighting, it is rare that anyone is just standing still, for fear of getting head shot.

Additionally, the ability to create false seismic signature by shooting the ground provides light mechs with jj's some interesting new options.

Will 1 small or medium laser cause a seismic reading?

[Lord Ikka]

PEEFsmash, on 30 September 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Will 1 small or medium laser cause a seismic reading?

Doubt it. Most likely your looking at AC10/20, Gauss, or PPC. Those are probably large enough to cause a "seismic event."

[PEEFsmash]

Lord Ikka, on 30 September 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Doubt it. Most likely your looking at AC10/20, Gauss, or PPC. Those are probably large enough to cause a "seismic event."

Okay so the false readings offer nothing to light mechs in that regard either, and again buff the possibilities for heavies and assaults.

[Screech]

Roland, on 30 September 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Additionally, the ability to create false seismic signature by shooting the ground provides light mechs with jj's some interesting new options.

Also LRM5+ammo is only 3 tons. Dumbfire LRM keep the lower flight path. Probably not worth the effort but would fun to try faking a flank from range.

[Roland]

Lord Ikka, on 30 September 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Doubt it. Most likely your looking at AC10/20, Gauss, or PPC. Those are probably large enough to cause a "seismic event."

Well, there is no current information that supports your statement here. It would potentially make sense, but it has not been stated as such.

[Carrioncrows]

I DO support the change.

It's a needed development.

However I think it would make much more sense if the Seismic sensor module could only be equipped by Lights or certain mechs known for their impressive electronics packages.

Another Tier of Variety.

[H Seldon]

I still think some of these modules should require having BAP or ECM equipped as well. Also, I read somewhere that seismic used the sensors on the planet's surface that are set up as a grid. And those sensors transmit info that you tap into. If it worked like that, then ECM could block those sensors from transmitting. Just an idea...

[Asakara]

I believe that those who stand still a lot, like heavies and assaults hiding behind hills, will reap the biggest benefit from this change.

Just stand still and you will know when that light mech tries to run up behind you. Course the light mech moving towards you can't see you on seismic if you are behind cover.. But whatever. That is their problem.

Also, good luck to the first one round the corner on a general push (yes you Mr. Atlas). The ambushing enemy will know you are coming.. But you will not know they are there till you are exposed.

Best of luck with this PEEF. A lot of this community from my experience seems to run heavies and assaults. There is little love (and a lot of hate) in general for light mechs on these forums that I have seen over the last year and 3 months or so.

Edited by Asakara, 30 September 2013 - 05:26 PM.

[Krivvan]

PEEFsmash, on 30 September 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Will 1 small or medium laser cause a seismic reading?

Will you finally see a use for my small lasers if they did?

[OznerpaG]

i don't understand how seismic is in any way powerful - it lets you detect mechs that are already at POINT BLANK range around you, and you have to take your eyes off the HUD to look at your map to see it's readings. it costs a FORTUNE to buy so it's not easy to get - at 6mil CB it takes 60+ games to earn one if you win every game which is impossible.

seismic is perfectly fine as it is, and anyone who says they arn't are just jealous they don't have one. i'v got 3, it took me 250+ games to earn them, and they are only good in very specific situations which only happens in maybe 25% of my games so they'r hardly anything close to powerful - but they are indispensable which is why i have them. quit wasting time making seismic less useful and make other modules more useful - like the base capping one. same price, but you can't even see a difference in capping speed. why isn't anyone bitching about that?

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 30 September 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Of more concern is that with this change running into 2-3+ ECM covered mechs again becomes a highlight of how ECM and it's absolute stealth may be a bigger issue.

This was my thought, too...

[A Man In A Can]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 30 September 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Of more concern is that with this change running into 2-3+ ECM covered mechs again becomes a highlight of how ECM and it's absolute stealth may be a bigger issue.

Then bring 2-3 Streakintaros with BAP and Advanced Sensor Range working as a pack and watch those ECM lights melt away?

Or if you have Streaks as a Jenner or Raven then bring BAP or your own ECM to cancel out at least one ECM?

Or if you don't have Streaks or LRMs then what are you really worried about if you can aim?

If you are all alone then yes you will be screwed. No matter what you do. And not because they had ECM, but because they are working together. Though you might be able to take at least one of them out.

If you can't aim then you will be screwed. Though teammates can help take the pressure off.

If you can't aim AND you are all alone, then God have mercy on your soul.

Edited by CYBRN4CR, 30 September 2013 - 08:53 PM.

[Rushmoar]

Well I think PGI could play with the standing still detection of seismic in 2 ways.

1st, light mechs are exempt from this rule. So this way they can move and get the same information as the stationary mechs.

2nd, the ping rate of detection could be adjusted. Normal seismic gives only 1 ping (the closest mech to you) every 4 seconds in the 150m range. Not 100% sure all that info is correct. And adv. seismic pings you all the mechs inside 250m. every second. The advanced version could be tweaked so it gives you only 1 ping a second and cycles through all the mechs in range except for the lightest one.
Example would be if 2 mechs are within range (say a light and a heavy) the light would not get detected. Another could be 2 Ravens and a Spider running together, Each Raven gets the pinged every other second but not the Spider. Also, might exclude all assaults from the list so all of them get pinged regardless of numbers. Say Atlas and Stalker are over the ridge, both are detected.

Well maybe this might address the issue that seismic is a module and that the only real counter in anyway is not to move.

Edited by Rushmoar, 30 September 2013 - 06:48 PM.

[KharnZor]

Should be a deployable/disposable module like the UAV.

[NotMoses]

IMO it should require you to shut your mech down but you keep your mini map. Maybe while you are powered down and running seismic you are also still targetable out to the range of your seismic. I dont really play anymore but I always thought a shutdown would of been a good balance.

Edited by NotMoses, 30 September 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[Monky]

It's going about it the wrong way, it needs to have reduced/no detection against slow moving enemies. It's an ambush detection tool, not an ambush setup tool. If you're standing still, you are ambushing someone else!