110 replies to this topic

[Medium Kick]

I think the ready button was definitely poorly implemented. Without even trying it out, I found it easy to predict what would happen when I did, just by reading about it: my prediction was that most players would ready up, one or two players would be AFK, everyone would need to wait for the timer to expire before entering the game, and that this would be frustating for all players.

And of course this is exactly what happens in almost all games.

I can understand the point of it, to encourage teamwork and better organisation in PUG matches, and maybe even to pre-identify bots and AFKers prior to play.

However, given that in all of the PUG games I've played to date nobody has bothered much with changing up lances, or even selecting lance commander or commander, despite having that far-too-long amount of time, I think the ready button is currently a net negative.

To improve it:

Timer should be 1 minute from when the first player joins, not 1 minute from when the last player joins. Either that, or it should be only 20 or 30 seconds from when the last player joins.

The ready button should be more prominent and central on the screen.

A slight kludge: the game should be started if 11 of 12 players on each side has readied up. Maybe 1 game in 100 the last player won't be ready because they are busy sorting out the lances, but for the other 99 games, its just someone not hitting ready. IF you want to take time as commander doing last-second changes, just ask someone else on your team to not ready up until you are done.

[kuangmk11]

Bucannen85, on 02 October 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

I disagree it has a place in a PUG match, the same as a 12v12. The time seems short when your using it and slow when your not. I think once people get more used to it the forms well die back down.

They do need to fix the button color and location though. I like what Kuangmk11 did with the look of it, but I didn't even notice it the first time I dropped until I sat there for maybe 20sec, then started to look a round.
Thanks kuangmk11

That is the mechwarrior 4 button, I take no credit.

[DjHatrix]

Personally as a PUG I like the opportunity to get a better look at my team before dropping, admittedly I had to look for it the first time I dropped even knowing it existed from the patch notes so could have been designed better. Still it wasn't hard enough that I see any point changing it before UI 2.0 time will sort most problems bar the bugs. Not sure how an extra minute or so constitutes a c-bill nerf unless you're farming as i saw a couple mention it. Have I missed something?

[jdczk]

One solution (implemented in another game) is to have each [READY] decrease the wait time by some amount. The decrease does not have to be uniform for each [READY].

For example...

The current system can be modeled as:

Remaining time: T(t) = 60 - t - 60 * R
t: Elapsed time
R: (1 if everyone is [READY], 0 otherwise)

The game starts when "T(t) <= 0". The obvious problem is that "R" is binary so we always wait 60 seconds unless everyone is [READY]. Hence this thread.

Alternatively, we can do something like:

Remaining time : T(t) = 60 - t - T1 * R1 - T2 * R2 - ... - T12 * R12
t: Elapsed time
R1: (1 if first player is [READY], 0 otherwise)
R2: (1 if second player is [READY], 0 otherwise)
...
R12: (1 if last player is [READY], 0 otherwise)
T1: Wait time decrease for first [READY]
T2: Wait time decrease for second [READY]
...
T12: Wait time decrease for last [READY]

If we use naive weights such that "T1 == T2 == ... == T12" and "T1 + T2 + ... + T12 == 60", then the maximum wait time for a single AFK is 5 seconds (and will usually be less). If half the people are AFK, then the maximum wait time is 30 seconds.

We can also do things like accelerating schedules where the first 6 [READY]'s each decrease by only 3 seconds, but the last [READY]'s decrease wait time by only 5 seconds. And so on.

Edited by jdczk, 02 October 2013 - 10:58 PM.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

The only reason they say they added it is to improve team coordination. However, I have seen no improvement in communication. So get rid of the stupid button. The reason I hate it most of all is I have to sit watching the screen while the dumb game finds a match for the odd time when it finds one quickly and I need to ready up right away. Previously, I could afk for a quick food or bio break between matches without holding up my group. Now, that risks making me the one who holds up the entire game. Just a stupid, useless addition in a game that desperately needs a bunch of smart, useful additions to save it.

[Dedra Meero]

Pro's and Cons.

Pro's

• Allows you to organize the Lances in organized 12 man company drops
  
• Gives you time to check out who is on the teams (not that you couldn't before)

Cons

• There's always someone who doesn't press the button because they don't know about it, don't care about it, want to troll the rest or they simply hit "Launch" then wander off to take a leak, grab something to drink or otherwise use the time to get something done quickly.
  
• It doesn't make the game starter faster (see above) and the very few times it does the time saved that one time is wasted already due to the prolonged time it usually takes due to not everyone clicking the Ready button.
  
• Another observation, though not directly related to the Ready button, is the fact that people get annoyed and/or bored from waiting so they claim the Commander role then start shuffling teams around, effectively breaking up premade lances which are organized on voicecoms and whatnot.

Overall conclusion (read: my personal opinion)

The Ready button is great for 12 man company drops.

The Ready button is a great waste of time and source of a lot of frustration for the solo player as well as 4 man Lance drops.

Recommendation:

• Remove it from solo and 4 man lance drops
  
• Keep it in the 12 man company drops.

Nuff said~

[Dedra Meero]

jdczk, on 02 October 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

One solution (implemented in another game) is to have each [READY] decrease the wait time by some amount. The decrease does not have to be uniform for each [READY].

For example...

The current system can be modeled as:

Remaining time: T(t) = 60 - t - 60 * R
t: Elapsed time
R: (1 if everyone is [READY], 0 otherwise)

The game starts when "T(t) <= 0". The obvious problem is that "R" is binary so we always wait 60 seconds unless everyone is [READY]. Hence this thread.

Alternatively, we can do something like:

Remaining time : T(t) = 60 - t - T1 * R1 - T2 * R2 - ... - T12 * R12
t: Elapsed time
R1: (1 if first player is [READY], 0 otherwise)
R2: (1 if second player is [READY], 0 otherwise)
...
R12: (1 if last player is [READY], 0 otherwise)
T1: Wait time decrease for first [READY]
T2: Wait time decrease for second [READY]
...
T12: Wait time decrease for last [READY]

If we use naive weights such that "T1 == T2 == ... == T12" and "T1 + T2 + ... + T12 == 60", then the maximum wait time for a single AFK is 5 seconds (and will usually be less). If half the people are AFK, then the maximum wait time is 30 seconds.

We can also do things like accelerating schedules where the first 6 [READY]'s each decrease by only 3 seconds, but the last [READY]'s decrease wait time by only 5 seconds. And so on.

This would work for the solo and 4 man lance drops, although the button should simply be removed entirely.

For 12 man company drops you don't want the timer to be shortened when people are hitting Ready. You want to use the full 60 seconds for setting up the lances and not 5 seconds or less because everyone in an organized team are good at following instructions (in this case, clicking the Ready button when they are, in fact, ready).

[Jakob Knight]

"Me no want to think. Hulk Smash!" - translation of the OP's problem.

MWO isn't about quick, mindless fighting. Go to another FPS if you want that. It's about planning and tactics of armored warfare, and this feature is supporting that. It allows both teams time to organize themselves, which is important in battles with so many people on each team. It also allows the option for Lance and Company command to be reassigned instead of being random as it otherwise would be.

Now, if all you are is a shallow, rock-em-sock-em-robots players, I can see how this would seem pointless to you, as all you would be seeing would be another feature that you'd never use. However, taking the time to plan your force structure, discuss strategy, and look over what kind of force you are working with is important to those of us who do more than just charge at the enemy and hit the fire button as fast as we can.

[Adrienne Vorton]

it is a PREPERATION for the lobbies...so instead of crying about it´s "uselessness" how about being happy about at least SOME progress on that one?

oh wait, i´m talking to MWOMERCS.COM population....nvm...

[Exoth3rmic]

Prioritising a lance mechanic prior to implementing any sort of functional in-client way of communicating with your team efficiently is what's at fault here.

As for "preparation for lobbies" and etc it should have been LEFT for the lobbies.

Jakob Knight, on 03 October 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

MWO isn't about quick, mindless fighting.

In organised 12 mans, let us sort lances before dropping - we have to wait long enough in que anyway why add additional 60 second trolling time. In most cases that 60 seconds represents more than a 1/6th of the total match time anyway. Wouldn't mind if matches had the potential of running at a higher average time - but they don't.

Edited by Exoth3rmic, 03 October 2013 - 02:25 AM.

[Snowcrow]

Reduce the countdown timer in pugs to 30 seconds and I'm happy.

[Xendojo]

lol!!!!

Cmon guys! This is the F2P lobby system! Isn't it grand?!

Real lobbies and chat will be monetized. Hooray for having to pay for basic online game features!!

[kapusta11]

What serious problem does this ready button solves in the first place? There are enough stuff waiting to be fixed already. Damn, there is ALWAYS one person who's not ready, it happened to be not true only 3 times in 2 days for me. Time shouldn't be lowered, it should be removed altogether, the sooner the better.

[Artifice]

Add some extra code so that it only gives the ready button during organised 12 mans. Pug matches should not have this, it's *everything previously said* and stupid.

I'm constantly unhappy to have extra time murdered from me by people who are new, cannot read, are in the toilet, etc.

[Macbrea]

I say go ahead and put in dropships with 4 mech choices per player upon seeing the map and then reduce the choice time to 15 seconds. I am betting the people that complain the most are the ones with only 4 bays, and by default very few mech choices. This should help alleviate the whining related to this queue waiting is too long.

[Waarf]

Hi, simple suggestion to make: Let the company commander have the ability to launch instantly; Once both sides readied, launch asap - should be a win-win imho, cheers!

[TheSteelRhino]

Omg. Do you not read or pay attn? You know this is for following stuff right?

1) so ppl can organize lances b4 dropping
2). U know there is map voting coming in the future right?
3) u know that once we have map voting, we will also be able to choose from a "ready list" of 4 mechs or so. In short u will have some choice in mechs once u have a map

Perhaps find out WHY before u start posting?

They are laying foundation for some good stuff.

[Bucannen85]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 03 October 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Omg. Do you not read or pay attn? You know this is for following stuff right?

1) so ppl can organize lances b4 dropping
2). U know there is map voting coming in the future right?
3) u know that once we have map voting, we will also be able to choose from a "ready list" of 4 mechs or so. In short u will have some choice in mechs once u have a map

Perhaps find out WHY before u start posting?

They are laying foundation for some good stuff.

I'm thinking all of that is more then 3months away. Won't they have to redo the ready button + any thing new between then and now when U.I.2.0 comes out?

[Luthander]

I love this option for 12 v 12 however for pugs I think it should be disabled

"And speaking of trolls, something should be done about the troll who joins a game and immediately grabs 'team commander' and then moves people in and out of squads for a laugh."

I agree with this statement whole heartedly.
Nothing worse then putting a 4 man together only for it to be ripped apart when you get in.

you could at least make a four man premade immune to being moved around. That would allow pugs freedom to team up with out allowing them to seperate a four man premade group.

[Sidewinder1]

So far, I'm not a big fan of the button, but only because it doesn't seem to have a use. Someone said you can 'sort out lances', which puzzles me. Can you move people around from lance to lance? I don't think so? I'm sure they have some purpose for the button coming in the future, but I'd rather there be no button until the time as there's some other functionality.