64 replies to this topic

[TychoTheItinerant]

CyBerWraith, on 02 October 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

This is not Unreal Tournament, it is Battletech, a simulation game where the intent is not to reproduce your FPS fragging and quick respawn, script-kiddie games.

No, it's MechWarrior, the bastardized FPS-ish incarnation of the Battletech franchise.

[Joseph Mallan]

TychoTheItinerant, on 02 October 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

No, it's MechWarrior, the bastardized FPS-ish incarnation of the Battletech franchise.

Did Kia or Victor or Vlad get shot out of a Mech and come right back into the fight? Respawn does not belong in this game.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 October 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[meteorol]

WarHippy, on 02 October 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

Is this any different than the people that are for respawn for the sake of being for respawn? Shall I just dismiss you out right like you attempt to do with this post?

Being for respawn for the sake of respawn is not better, but i have the feeling that it's less common (Most given reason is "eliminating kill as fastest win condition to put more emphasis on playing the object). This post was directed towards the "hurr, go back to CoD, durr, " posts which tend to flood respawn threads. Yes, there are many posts with well conceived arguments against respawn, but the amount of "I don't like it, which means it will destroy the game" posts in these threads is frightening.

WarHippy, on 02 October 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

Actually, in most of these threads people are asking for endless respawn(or a ticket system), but lets say this one is different. Taking your example of c-bill reduction if the penalty is high people will only be careful until they get killed, and then don't have to worry because they already lost most of their possible reward. If you make the loss too small nobody will care if they die a few times zerging the objective. It would be nearly impossible to find a good middle ground that won't **** people off.

Sure, it would be a difficult balance act. But the fact that it would be difficult to balance shouldn't be used as an argument against respawns in general. Just because it would be difficult to balance, it doesn't mean a respawn gamemode doesn't "fit" the game. Don't get me wrong, i know bringing a respawn gamemode to this game would be hard. I just don't like the fact that so many(certainly not all) dismiss the idea without giving comprehensible reasons for it.

WarHippy, on 02 October 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

Seeing as the OP was calling for respawns in both of the current game modes, and at most was willing to throw a bone to the rest of us in the form of a mindless death match mode I will have to say this is nonsense.

I have to admit i somewhat read over it. I'm just tired of the countless number of respawn threads we already had.
Respawn should be a seperate gamemode for sure. Let the guys who want to play with respawn play with respawn.
If you don't like it, don't do it. This would be a basic requirement for a respawn mode.

PGI has screwed up the 1PV/3PV queue (read: queue =! gamemode), so our trust in creating a new gamemode is rather small. But saying "they didn't seperate the 3PV queue, so it is sure that respawn would affect everyone" is nothing but a wild guess.

What i really don't understand is guys being against a seperate respawnmode which wouldn't affect them at all just for the sake of it. And there are many of those on this forum. Screaming no just for the sake of screaming no.
Thats basically like saying: I don't like chocolate ice cream. Noone forces me to eat it, but i'll still scream at everyone who likes chocolate. They are messing up my banana ice cream while eating chocolate.

[Joseph Mallan]

meteorol, on 02 October 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

What i really don't understand is guys being against a seperate respawnmode which wouldn't affect them at all just for the sake of it. And there are many of those on this forum. Screaming no just for the sake of screaming no.
Thats basically like saying: I don't like chocolate ice cream. Noone forces me to eat it, but i'll still scream at everyone who likes chocolate. They are messing up my banana ice cream while eating chocolate.

Meteorol PGI has not had a good track record with doing what they say. They said No Coolant Flush, they also said no combined 1st & 3rd view.. I don't wanna see them fail to keep their word again.

[Hellcat420]

no respawn. the game is better without respawns.

[meteorol]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 October 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Meteorol PGI has not had a good track record with doing what they say. They said No Coolant Flush, they also said no combined 1st & 3rd view.. I don't wanna see them fail to keep their word again.

That is true for sure. PGI has changed alot of their opinions during the last year.
But if this is the reason for being against a seperate respawn gamemode, i wish people would say something like:

"I understand some players would like a respawn gamemode, but i'm afraid PGI will be unable to deliver a seperate gamemode. They will force us all to play with respawns and it will hurt the game".

What many say is: OMGZORZ NO RESPAWN GO PLAY COD
They don't even distinguish between everyone being forced to play with respawn and a seperate respawn mode. They just condemn respawns in general.

Would a seperate, balanced (Cbill-wise) gamemode with respawns hurt the game? I don't think so.
If the reason for being against respawn is the probable inability of PGI to create a balanced seperate gamemode, there is no reason to doom a respawn mode in general.

[Joseph Mallan]

I'm against respawn because I don't like respawn. I don't want it added to MW:O cause I don't trust the DEVs to keep it separate.

[Tamagakure]

Fut, on 02 October 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

The only "Respawn" mode that I think would be acceptable would be the "Dropship Mode", where you go into battle with 4 Mechs ready. When you get destroyed, you can select one of your remaining 3 Mechs and enter the battle again...

This is quite possibly the only viable option after Phoenix releases and you get a dense populace of players with 8+ 'mechs to work with.

I'm not saying it wasn't considered, but the original poster said nothing about respawn limitations. (beside a possible mention of a respawn timer)
Given that, common sense would assume you'd suggested that anyone could play every 'mech they had in one match.
...Those matches would take hours.

Edited by Tamagakure, 02 October 2013 - 08:48 AM.

[TychoTheItinerant]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 October 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

Did Kia or Victor or Vlad get shot out of a Mech and come right back into the fight? Respawn does not belong in this game.

You're none of those people and you never will be. Get over it.

[Joseph Mallan]

You're right, I am not those characters. So when I die in game I am down till the end of the match. I am capable of accepting that.

[TychoTheItinerant]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 October 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

You're right, I am not those characters. So when I die in game I am down till the end of the match. I am capable of accepting that.

Ignoring the fact that battles typically involved more than a 12v12 to begin with. But that's getting into canon and lore.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ignoring the fact that to play those large battle both TT and MW games cut them down to smaller numbers and multiple scenarios to make them manageable. You don't like dying in game its obvious, Me, I'm perfectly fine accepting my failure to survive an sit down and watch.

[TychoTheItinerant]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 October 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Ignoring the fact that to play those large battle both TT and MW games cut them down to smaller numbers and multiple scenarios to make them manageable. You don't like dying in game its obvious, Me, I'm perfectly fine accepting my failure to survive an sit down and watch.

Nobody likes dying. Most importantly, nobody likes being forced to sit through a slogfest of a match they happened to get killed in just to be able to collect C-bills. This isn't about whether someone likes dying or not, despite what you keep asserting. This is about enjoying playing, and you're playing the typical "elitist ****" game here.

[Anastasius]

Personally respawn has no place in a BT simulation.

You want mindless zerging and arcade shooters then respawn is a great idea.

You want more of a BT sim then no respawn.

This is what made MPBT:3025 a much better game than MW4 ever was. I really disliked the 3rd person view and the mindless respawns in MW4 multiplayer and it really kept me from playing that game other than in the Netbattetech leagues.

[Joseph Mallan]

TychoTheItinerant, on 02 October 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

Nobody likes dying. Most importantly, nobody likes being forced to sit through a slogfest of a match they happened to get killed in just to be able to collect C-bills. This isn't about whether someone likes dying or not, despite what you keep asserting. This is about enjoying playing, and you're playing the typical "elitist ****" game here.

I have been enjoying this game with one life per match for a year now. I have been gaming for 34 years and only played 2 rounds of Neverwinter in respawn matches to know I really don't want respawn in MechWarrior.

Respawn is for arcade games.

[CeeKay Boques]

Respawns in past Mechwarriors have been delicious. In planetary leagues, 1 life is where its at. That said, 4 Mech Dropship mode, WITH Repair and Rearm (so as not to "break the economy") would be fantastic.

For us TTers, imagine that you are "impersonating" another Mech pilot, or make an "Eject only requirement"

Only on Conquest Maps AND you must hold a "Drop Zone" point. This gives us fantastic tactics like "hold the drop zone, 15 more seconds!" as you see dropships coming in from the sky. (Every 3 minutes)

It increases the Economy for PGI. 4 x 3 modules per mech instead of swapping, same with engines.

Yelling over comms "I only have my Raven left!" or "Go get a dropzone, we're going down fast" or "Regroup at Epsilon, their reinforcements are coming in at Theta, 10 seconds!"

One life IS the Roleplay Planetary league standard. But don't believe that reinforcements have to be CoD Battlefield thing you're used to. In can absolutely help us extrapolate the BTU if done correctly.

[Darklord]

If you make a mistake in matches now it's a big deal
You think "I need to play smart or we lose"

In re spawn you think "Hey if I lose one now no big deal there are still more on the counter"
I want the loss of a mech to mean something in the matches not just the mindless barbarian charge mentality.

[meteorol]

Anastasius, on 02 October 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

I really disliked the 3rd person view and the mindless respawns in MW4 multiplayer and it really kept me from playing that game other than in the Netbattetech leagues.

Why do so many assume a respawn gamemode would automatically and by all means be a mode with "mindless respawn like in MW4"? This is an argument which is brought up very often in these respawn topics: Respawns sucked in MW4, so they have to suck in MWO.
Who says PGI is forced to design the respawns just like in MW4?

Technoviking, on 02 October 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

But don't believe that reinforcements have to be CoD Battlefield thing you're used to.

This a million times.

[CeeKay Boques]

In the lore, in the fiction, if you use Strategic Operations, how often is the entrenched, embattled group saved by glowing dropships from the sky, or a flank that pushed all the way through?

That will never, ever happen under the current gameplay. I love this gameplay, but it is stagnant, and will never be more than good old DM on a pretty planet.

I offer this question. Is it the Warrior? Or the Mech? Would you allow reinforcements from OTHER Players from your faction to drop every 3 minutes until your planet ran out of 48 mechs or all conquest points were taken? If you, as a pilot died, but other members of your faction were able to fall, would you then see the possibilities?

I know the fist clenching thrill of one life planetary leagues, vs the calm tactics of "30 minute matches". Planetary leagues are do or die. Very little changes once opponents make contact. Respawn is not nearly as thrilling, but other, longer view tactics come into play that 1 life only matches can't use. Ambushes are great in single life, but useless except for the first engagement in respawn. "Regrouping" or "take that other hill" are usually useless in Planetary, but great ways to overcome a loss in Respawn. There is a place for a limited, Asset based respawn in MechWarrior.

[WM Wraith]

Hellcat420, on 02 October 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

no respawn. the game is better without respawns.

This!

Nothing else to see here.....move along, move along.