18 replies to this topic

[Hirengurth]

First off forgive me as im not totally sure this is the right part of the forum for this but, it appeard to be the most relevant location.

I was looking at the current ghost heat system and saw that most of the complaints are its counter intuitive. So i got to making my own idea on the subject that could serve as a replacement. keep in mind this is a extremely rough idea and some of the maths below make for rather insane numbers. But it treats all weapons equally infact it does not care what weapon is being fired just how much heat you have gained over the last 0.8 seconds. Also it comes down to the more and bigger weapons you shoot the more heat you build up. Fairly simple now anyhting below a threshold acts totally normally.

Ghost Heat – Revised
Requirements – Track heat Increase over 0.8 seconds
Penalty – Scaling increase to heat generation
Threshold – 25-30% of your Mechs thermal threshold (AKA 100% heat)
Counter play – Encourages more heat sinks and fewer large heat weapons.


Basically if at any time you exceed generating 25% of you max heat within 0.8 seconds you would start to generate more heat starting low and rapidly increasing based on the percentage of your max heat you have generated within the 0.8 second window. If you were to generate a lot of heat in one spike the total heat would skyrocket.

The idea of basing the system around percentage of base heat is to free up options for players while still eliminating the actual problem. Adding heat sinks would in fact help reduce the overall penalties but, have a cost of moving more tonnage to heat management making builds utilizing high heat weapons in bulk far more costly on both tonnage and critical slots.

This would not be able to be bypassed by swapping weapons around till they meet the citera as it only cares about sudden heat gain. Also it would not be something a macro could exploit as there is no hard window as all changes to heat over the last 0.8 seconds will be considered.

In combat this forces the player to think about his options of what to fire and when without making exceptions and remains extremely tunable tll you get the effect you are looking for without makeing weapon limits or exceptions.


DIsclamer Below is extremely rough idea of a way to do it and likely a lot of tuning would be needed to the maths to make it work right. In fact some of the numbers are rather insane but, its just a concept.


Heat Increase = Base Heat +Ghost Heat
Ghost Heat =Base Heat * (1+(((Base Heat /max heat ) -0.25)/1.6))
If ghost heat would be less the the base heat ghost heat is 0 also if you skip this step it would make for a heat redustion on smaller arms fire.

Given your average mech is between 40 and 70 max heat something close to the above would make reasonable numbers for reasonable builds and fireing patterens.

I have no idea if in practice a system similar to this would even work as i have no idea how the code for the game is setup though, i would be interested in what the devs think of the idea reguarless of how usable it is.

[akpavker]

[Lyoto Machida]

Or...get rid of "ghost heat" altogether...easier fix.

[SirLANsalot]

get rid of ghost heat from Ballistics/Missiles and all would be fine.

The Ghost Heat system was made and intended for Energy Weapons.....but someone PGI went crazy somewhere and added every booping weapon to it.

[Hirengurth]

Lyoto Machida, on 02 October 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Or...get rid of "ghost heat" altogether...easier fix.

i agree but the seem to be hellbent on it.

[Livewyr]

Hirengurth, on 02 October 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

i agree but the seem to be hellbent on it.

They're dying to keep the ghost heat...


(I'm sorry...)

[NinetyProof]

Ghost Heat is fine ... it's doing what it was supposed to do ... it's not a big deal ... don't need to change a system that is doing fine.

Doesn't even warrant the wasted electricity it took to post this message. Bigger fish to fry ...

[Livewyr]

NinetyProof, on 02 October 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Ghost Heat is fine ... it's doing what it was supposed to do ... it's not a big deal ... don't need to change a system that is doing fine.

Doesn't even warrant the wasted electricity it took to post this message. Bigger fish to fry ...

No.. it's not fine.

Can launch 2 LRM20s with no problem.
Cannot launch 4 LRM10s without some serious heat penalty...
(Hell, can't even launch 3 LRM 10s without penalty..)

[scJazz]

Livewyr, on 02 October 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

No.. it's not fine.

Can launch 2 LRM20s with no problem.
Cannot launch 4 LRM10s without some serious heat penalty...
(Hell, can't even launch 3 LRM 10s without penalty..)

But insane stream of heavy earthquake CT coring insanity from 6 LRM5 Catapult A1 is OK. Keep this in mind!

[akpavker]

scJazz, on 02 October 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

But insane stream of heavy earthquake CT coring insanity from 6 LRM5 Catapult A1 is OK. Keep this in mind!

AMS......this will stop in most cases all missiles chain fired from a lrm5 cat. with 2 mechs with AMS and the missiles wont even get near you!!!

[scJazz]

akpavker, on 02 October 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

AMS......this will stop in most cases all missiles chain fired from a lrm5 cat. with 2 mechs with AMS and the missiles wont even get near you!!!

Yes because someone evil enough to be good at using aforementioned mech hasn't decided to macro the whole thing to go off in 0.3 seconds thereby obliterating whatever advantage you thought you had.

Have a nice day

[Joseph Mallan]

Livewyr, on 02 October 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

They're dying to keep the ghost heat...


(I'm sorry...)

[Lyoto Machida]

Hirengurth, on 02 October 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

i agree but the seem to be hellbent on it.

I don't think ghost heat will be going anywhere ever. I saw the launch event MC at the bar...the guy with the hat on. I think he is the head of IGP (or something like that). Anyways, the first thing I said to him was "When are you going to get rid of ghost heat?" He basically replied something along the lines of "I just deal with the development side...you need to ask that guy on stage with the mic." This was during the CW presentation when the guy with the glasses was speaking (Brian Ekman?). Evidently from what he implied, Ekman is very passionate about ghost heat. He wouldn't tell me if it was positive or negative when I asked but I'm assuming he loves the heat system since it's still around.

[Xanquil]

Ghost heat will only go away when the issue it was created to curb goes away. That issue was/is high damage pinpoint alpha strikes. Key word there is pinpoint. What that means is that we are either stuck with ghost heat, or we end up with some change to convergence. (likely a cone of fire).

[FupDup]

The best way to rework GH:

[Bullseye69]

Ghost heat was created to stopping the boat of weapons if you fire too many you take the higher heat penality. It does work if you can fire you 2 ppc circuit 1 then within 3 seconds you fire circuit 2 with 2 more ppc and take the heat form 2 fired instead of 4 ppcs. If you fire 2 ppcs and before they cool down you fired 2 more from a different firing circuit you should take the heat from 4 ppc onstead of the penality from 2 , apply this to all weapons that have ghost heat you would stop the boating and have more weapons varied mechs.

Mechs that were designed such has the hunchback p and awesome q would be exempted from ghost heat. That are rethink ghost heat and add to the cool down of the weapons before you fire.

My highlander carries 2 er ppc , my medium and light carry a max of 4 medium or 4 small lasers, even when i tried the hunchback p varient I only carried a max of 6 just was to hot to carry more. The way ghost heat works now does not discourage boating and the only thing that does on ppc and er ppc or the extra heat they have loaded on to the weapons

[AC]

Ghost Heat, Gauss Nerf, ECM Op, and Jump Jet Shake are just bandaids for the mech weapon slot system. If the system was a little more restrictive (ie limit weapons by size) then we shouldn't need/have any of this other complex {Scrap}.

[Xanquil]

Sorry but hardpoint size restriction wouldn't do anything to curb high damage pinpoint alphas, it would just make even more chassis useless. I don't mind the idea of restricting hardpoint size, it just won't do anything to get rid of the real issue. As much as I hat ghost heat, I have no illusions of what it is trying to combat. The armor system being used was never intended to receive damage from multiple weapons to the same location at the same time every time. If alpha strikes were spread out like all other multi-packet attacks(LRM, SRM, SSRM, LB-X), and a .5 second between weapon shots(single, chain, or alpha) was enforced(to combat macro abuse) than there would be no need for ghost heat.

[Krivvan]

SirLANsalot, on 02 October 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

The Ghost Heat system was made and intended for Energy Weapons.....but someone PGI went crazy somewhere and added every booping weapon to it.

It was for boating in general. The AC40 in particular.