26 replies to this topic

[Pht]

This is a heads-up for the people who don't listen to the NGNG podcasts or who missed this one.

Ironically, it's coming from a clan-hater of rather epic-proportions. The only thing I like about the clans in the BT setting is ... taking their tech.

It seems the clans are now going to be in the same boat as I have been - messed with under the never-defined and never validated justification of the catch-words "flavor" and "intent."

Me, I'm a guy who likes the tech in the setting. I want the 'Mechs to actually take part in the aiming equation like they do in the lore - which I have been screwed out of since 1999 - this time around because the developers apparently seem to have thought the the combat mechanics in the TT don't contain any description of how the battlemechs take part in the aiming. Said mechanics have been referred to by the devs as "randomness" (murphy's law) and "skill" (representing pilot and thus player's skill) - along with the ever-present use of the empty words "intent" and "flavor."

How does this relate to the condition that knowledgable fans (those who really know the setting and like the clans) of the clans find themselves in?

Listen to the above clip out of the NGNG88a podcast.

Instead of making the clan tech expensive, hard to maintain & get ammo for (for spehereoids), and most of all, at least intially limiting the total number of clan mechs released to something at or near 2:1 or so ... the comments seem to indicate that the TECH is going to get taken behind the woodshed and be given a beating. The justification, besides the ubiquitous "it's too OP" - "intent" and "flavor."

I expect that you, like I, will not get any definition of these two ambigiuous justifications, nor any explanation of how they are valid.

As Bryan Ekman said ... "adjust your expectations."

Welcome to my boat. It's not exactly a fun one to be in. :|

[CyclonerM]

http://mwomercs.com/...-the-canon-way/
May i point you my thread about ideas for Clans implementations?

[Pht]

Rather ironically, I already had a post in it before your post here!

[PostalPatriot]

I am all for it, I 100 Percent agree with the comment made, Clan tech Invalided 90 percent of Battle tech content. It's not fun, or cool. So yea, i am 100 percent for bringing clan tech down a notch, it can still be better, it just shouldn't be so much better no one wants to play IS. Those comments have been made by way more then just PGI, alot of them come form the people who first created the clans in TT.. I'll reserve my judgement until they are actually released but for now i agree, i have no desire to see anything but clan mechs be playable.

[Pht]

PostalPatriot, on 08 September 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

I am all for it, I 100 Percent agree with the comment made, Clan tech Invalided 90 percent of Battle tech content. It's not fun, or cool. So yea, i am 100 percent for bringing clan tech down a notch, it can still be better, it just shouldn't be so much better no one wants to play IS.

So, in other words, the people who enjoy the setting, as it actually is ... shoudln't matter? If this isn't what you mean ... that what do you mean towards those of us who enjoy the actual fiction as it is?

Quote

i have no desire to see anything but clan mechs be playable.

Do you realize that because MWO is a persistant game, they can make the clan mechs (and tech) 2:1 more rare, more expensive to get, AND because the servers are capable of enforcing the FULL clan honor rules, in open and community warfare drops ... that your comment here isn't valid?

They could also simply set restrictions on mixing the two tech bases; from outright just now allowing it to some variation of making it harder to something else.

It seems in this hasty rush to ignore the fiction as it's been written (and those who like it) ... they're passing over easy ways to implement the clantech without destryong everything that came before.

Even in the setting not everyone went to clantech immediately. In fact, it's taken decades and decades for the clan level of tech to fully filter into the IS; even though the most meaningful ones came in very quickly (endo steel, clan DHS, FF armor).

[CyclonerM]

PostalPatriot, on 08 September 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

I am all for it, I 100 Percent agree with the comment made, Clan tech Invalided 90 percent of Battle tech content. It's not fun, or cool. So yea, i am 100 percent for bringing clan tech down a notch, it can still be better, it just shouldn't be so much better no one wants to play IS. Those comments have been made by way more then just PGI, alot of them come form the people who first created the clans in TT.. I'll reserve my judgement until they are actually released but for now i agree, i have no desire to see anything but clan mechs be playable.

I suggest you too to give my an opinion about my ideas about the Clans implementation here http://mwomercs.com/...-the-canon-way/

[Pht]

I feel SO wierd actually defending clan fans ...

I swear, I detest the clans more than a capellan detests a hasek or a taruain fears a davion invasion.

This .. is ... ODD.

[CyclonerM]

Pht, on 08 September 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

I feel SO wierd actually defending clan fans ...

I swear, I detest the clans more than a capellan detests a hasek or a taruain fears a davion invasion.

This .. is ... ODD.

Maybe we are not really different. We both want this game to succeed and not to become a new arcade Hawken-like shooter.

[Pht]

Maybe it's because I want clan toys to be worthwhile to steal from dead clanners...

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I've basically been waiting since 1999 for a MechWarrior game that actually has battlemechs that take part in the overal aiming equation like they do in the lore.

Nobody's done it yet.

Now I see that this time around the clanners may be in for the treatement I've been getting. I actually don't want the company.

[CyclonerM]

MWO should have been definitely MW5. A single player game would have had less problems about OP tech (just like MW4) and would have given a better immersion. Trust me, i am the first to post in the AtD questions about the BT/MW core fans. I was not born in the "Battletech generation" but started with MW2 and now i am reading the novels (already 15 i think).

[Pht]

CyclonerM, on 08 September 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

MWO should have been definitely MW5. A single player game would have had less problems about OP tech (just like MW4) and would have given a better immersion. Trust me, i am the first to post in the AtD questions about the BT/MW core fans. I was not born in the "Battletech generation" but started with MW2 and now i am reading the novels (already 15 i think).

AtD? Not familar with that one.

As I pointed out, MWO has some advantages, in being persistant vs instanced. Yes, it would have been nice to have had a single player game, but the money backing simply wasn't there, so I understand the F2P/persistant model being the route.

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On the novels; fair warning. Don't bother to read far country. Don't even buy it. The only reason it's worth anything is because it contains probably the best explanation of a LAM cockpit in the whole lore.

Also, don't buy any of illsa bick's published novels. Her published books aren't BT scifi... they're true-crime ***t/perversity novels and some of them are virtually devoid of any 'Mech action.

Yes, the MWDA novels are actually worthwhile, all the hatred aside.

[CyclonerM]

Pht, on 08 September 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

AtD? Not familar with that one.

As I pointed out, MWO has some advantages, in being persistant vs instanced. Yes, it would have been nice to have had a single player game, but the money backing simply wasn't there, so I understand the F2P/persistant model being the route.

----

On the novels; fair warning. Don't bother to read far country. Don't even buy it. The only reason it's worth anything is because it contains probably the best explanation of a LAM cockpit in the whole lore.

Also, don't buy any of illsa bick's published novels. Her published books aren't BT scifi... they're true-crime ***t/perversity novels and some of them are virtually devoid of any 'Mech action.

Yes, the MWDA novels are actually worthwhile, all the hatred aside.

I understood too,there was no one to finance the game.. stravags!

Ahaha i know, Far Country should speak about some kind of alien birds,quiaff?

And those books.. are some of the Dark Age ones?

And.. AtD is "Ask the Devs" actually my last question was among the most voted..

[Pht]

I guess some of the big game developers/financiers are so dense they don't realize that there's a pre-built fanbase that's been willing to dish out the dough for virtually anything in the setting for over 29 years. Heck, I can point ot a BT fan podcast in which the casters are telling people to buy shadowrun books ... not because they're good... but because the income will spur the BT production.

Far country has talking alien birds. Something the people who write the lore SWORE would never happen. It's not a good story either.

Yes, the illsa books I'm referring to are some of the MWDA books. Otherwise, the MWDA books are pretty good stories.

[CyclonerM]

Pht, on 08 September 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Yes, the illsa books I'm referring to are some of the MWDA books. Otherwise, the MWDA books are pretty good stories.

I started to read only one of the MW/DA books and it did not seem so good.. maybe a wrong first impression? Anyway, my favourite books are of course the those of the Blood of Kerensky trilogy.

[Pht]

The storyline for MWDA starts out fairly slow, as the authors are trying to figure out exactly how to express the new stuff and the new way that things are.

You don't really get back into the "grand overarching" sort of storylines as the old novels until you get at least a few books in.

[Bellum Dominum]

even as a clanner myself I have to say that I'm very leery about MWO adding in clans/clantech. Pht hit the nail right on the head right off the bat. Programming mechanics wise it's not hard to implement them per cannon, but will they. I mean most of you won't like this next statement but in actuality this game is already so far off from canon it's disheartening. Mechs aren't supposed to be as modifiable as they are in this game. That was part of what made the Omni variants such a threat on the battlefield, and for all the worry about clan weapons etc as far as the cannon fiction goes it really wasn't the advanced weapons but again that one didn't know what they were facing based solely on looking at it. Also, unlike MWO you didn't get a read out of the loadout of a mech you were targeted on. Please please get rid of that MWO, with advanced targeting technology I could see this being something in the game (IE modules and beagle not simple lock on) and more easily accept it... but as is.. bleh.

Edited by Death Drow, 08 September 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[CyclonerM]

Death Drow, on 08 September 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

even as a clanner myself I have to say that I'm very leery about MWO adding in clans/clantech. Pht hit the nail right on the head right off the bat. Programming mechanics wise it's not hard to implement them per cannon, but will they. I mean most of you won't like this next statement but in actuality this game is already so far off from canon it's disheartening. Mechs aren't supposed to be as modifiable as they are in this game. That was part of what made the Omni variants such a threat on the battlefield, and for all the worry about clan weapons etc as far as the cannon fiction goes it really wasn't the advanced weapons but again that one didn't know what they were facing based solely on looking at it. Also, unlike MWO you didn't get a read out of the loadout of a mech you were targeted on. Please please get rid of that MWO, with advanced targeting technology I could see this being something in the game (IE modules and beagle not simple lock on) and more easily accept it... but as is.. bleh.

I know, bit MechWarrior games are adapted from the BT lore, they are not a literal translation. I really would have liked at least sized hardpoints instead of having Inner Sphere omni-mechs..

[Pht]

Death Drow, on 08 September 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

I mean most of you won't like this next statement but in actuality this game is already so far off from canon it's disheartening.

You're preaching to the choir.

I don't think it's proper to call this a genuine/full MW video game.

See my sig link.

[Joseph Mallan]

I'm on your side Pht. I chose Inner Sphere cause I want to face the Boogieman the Clans represent. I did not come here to battle a equal opponent. I want the the unstoppable juggernaut that rolled over the Canon story for years. It's why I have never complained about powerful builds. Clan Omnis throw more damage than Spheroid builds hands down, so I want to be ready for the firestorm that is Clan warfare.

[Wolfways]

I haven't read any BT stuff for about 30 years but if i remember correctly i liked the clans because they were honourable and i just think their mechs are better looking than the IS mechs. The "better tech" isn't something i really cared about.

It would be nice if PGI made the clans similar to how they are in BT (punish players for dishonourable actions?) but i don't see it happening.
To be honest, with the way MWO has been diverting away from BT i wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the road Bryan says "We aren't making a game based on Battletech/Mechwarrior. That was just our position at the time."