575 replies to this topic

[-Natural Selection-]

I will make you a deal... When spiders are fixed, my 3 friends and I will stop running 4x5 ssrms.

[El Death Smurf]

Dozier, on 02 October 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

I will make you a deal... When spiders are fixed, my 3 friends and I will stop running 4x5 ssrms.

My name is El Death Smurf, and I approve of this message.

[-Natural Selection-]

Because lord help you if you cant run through 5 mechs for 5 mins with little damage. Is mainly a light mech counter, so we cant have it right? noot

Edited by Dozier, 02 October 2013 - 08:37 PM.

[Mr 144]

Just a point of fact....many have mentioned a 150m range under ECM. Any self-respecting Streak Boat runs...

BAP (150m ECM counter)
Advanced Sensor Module (raises ECM counter to 250m)
Target Decay
Artemis

It really is a complete system reguiring more than just 1 crit and 1.5 tons.

[Aym]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

As I said, there is a precedence. They removed knockdowns just before Open Beta started, and they still haven't put them back in.

They removed the Cent AH too!
But seriously, 1.75 or 2.0, but at 2.0 drop the Ghost Heat number and buff the multiplier. There are options.

[Valore]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

Do you even play this game? The relative speed difference between 115kph and 150kph isn't that huge. But that even becomes less relevant when you consider that a light has zero chance to kill a Streak-Kint, if they need to fight them. None.

Oh noes! My PPC K2 and my LRM Stalker has ZERO CHANCE to kill a light mech when it gets close with its medium lasers!

Nerf medium lasers pl0x.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

As the #1 streak missile hater on this forum in months past, I THOUGHT with the recent adjustments streaks were borderline balanced finally, for the first time since August.

But then I was playing my new blackjack and ran into a Kintaro-18 deliberately capping our base on Tourmaline to draw back lights and mediums to kill. I had to close to streak range to stop the base cap.

Now I have destroyed lots of mechs 1 vs. 1 in this blackjack, including a Victor, which is supposed to be one of the hardest mechs to beat in a duel. But the Kintaro with no aiming required just ripped my Blackjack apart in seconds with its streaks, and there was nothing I could do. All the jump jetting acrobatics that allow me to survive against any other mech were useless. I was taken from light yellow armor to dead in seconds and killed while in mid-air.

Now apparently blackjacks are particularly susceptible to streaks, but that shows how broken the streak weapon system STILL is. A close range blackjack stands NO chance against a streak Kintaro. None. This is not a case of a short range mech beating a long range mech. This is two mediums, both configured for short range combat, where one completely DOMINATES the other thanks to a no skill auto-lockon homing projectile.

I agree about streaks. Get rid of 'em, once and for all. Til they're completely redesigned.

.

Edited by Rat of the Legion Vega, 02 October 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[japes]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 02 October 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

Now apparently blackjacks are particularly susceptible to streaks, but that shows how broken the streak weapon system STILL is.
.

Blackjacks are bugged with Streaks focusing on the CT only. It's kind of a big deal with how the damage is dealt.

If lasers had the same issue (track them all over the body but it only does damage to CT) we would see the same complaints.

You lost a duel in a situation that you were baited into without support and chose to go 1v1 with a build you clearly underestimated against a 'Mech 10T above you and met the consequences.

One situation in a bugged 'Mech with anecdotal and subjective phrasing like "dead in seconds" in a situation where you engaged onto a Kintaro on its terms does nothing for any argument. Sounds like you outplayed yourself by being overly cocky (afterall, you 1v1'd a Victor once!) and played it exactly how the Kintaro wanted and got punished deservedly.

I'd be looking at the decisions you made in this situation instead of blaming it on a weapon. It will help you as a player.

Edited by japes, 02 October 2013 - 10:59 PM.

[Farpenoodle]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 02 October 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

As the #1 streak missile hater on this forum in months past, I THOUGHT with the recent adjustments streaks were borderline balanced finally, for the first time since August.

But then I was playing my new blackjack and ran into a Kintaro-18 deliberately capping our base on Tourmaline to draw back lights and mediums to kill. I had to close to streak range to stop the base cap.

Now I have destroyed lots of mechs 1 vs. 1 in this blackjack, including a Victor, which is supposed to be one of the hardest mechs to beat in a duel. But the Kintaro with no aiming required just ripped my Blackjack apart in seconds with its streaks, and there was nothing I could do. All the jump jetting acrobatics that allow me to survive against any other mech were useless. I was taken from light yellow armor to dead in seconds and killed while in mid-air.

Now apparently blackjacks are particularly susceptible to streaks, but that shows how broken the streak weapon system STILL is. A close range blackjack stands NO chance against a streak Kintaro. None. This is not a case of a short range mech beating a long range mech. This is two mediums, both configured for short range combat, where one completely DOMINATES the other thanks to a no skill auto-lockon homing projectile.

I agree about streaks. Get rid of 'em, once and for all. Til they're completely redesigned.

.

It's kinda a bug vs the BJ.

[stjobe]

Once upon a time, all my 'mechs with missile hardpoints had SSRMs filling them. Remember back in the day, when the COM-2D was half-a-StreakCat? It was an unholy terror - and then it got ECM.

I actually stopped playing my 2D a few weeks before ECM was introduced, it felt too much like cheating. 2.5 damage x 6, seeking to the CT, every 3.5 seconds. It didn't stop at lights, those things ravaged even heavies and assaults.

Now the SSRM is back at 2.5 after a hiatus on 1.5, and they no longer seek CT exclusively - which means they're no longer a real threat against heavies and mediums. They still are a very real and tangible threat against lights though, as the emergence of the Streaktaro shows.

Now a lot of people seem to have an irrational hatred towards light 'mechs, which seems to be mainly stemming from the fact that they can't easily kill them when they (erroneously) think they should be able to, so I'm not surprised in the least that the Streaktaro has a lot of advocates and defenders here. So did the StreakCat back in the day.

Just ask yourself this: If the Streaktaro was as potent against your heavy or assault as it is against my Commandos, would you still say it was balanced and it was you who needed to L2P?

If the answer is anything but "yes", the only reasonable conclusion is that the Streaktaro (and in extension the SSRM-2) actually is overpowered.

As I've said before, there is no logical reason we need an auto-aim weapon at all in MWO (skill matters, right? Where's the "no randomness in my game" posters when it comes to SSRMs? Or the "no cone of fire! I want my aiming skill to matter!" posters?), and there's absolutely no logical reason an auto-aim weapon should do more damage than it's manual-aim version.

To connect back to my COM-2D; I drop in it once in a blue moon just to see if it still works the same; it has a 6.0 KDR, which is way, way above any of my other 'mechs (by a factor of three or so). That's how powerful SSRMs are still.

[Mr 144]

stjobe, on 03 October 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

.....Now the SSRM is back at 2.5 after a hiatus on 1.5, and they no longer seek CT exclusively - which means they're no longer a real threat against heavies and mediums. They still are a very real and tangible threat against lights though, as the emergence of the Streaktaro shows.............

..............so did the StreakCat back in the day.

Just ask yourself this: If the Streaktaro was as potent against your heavy or assault as it is against my Commandos, would you still say it was balanced and it was you who needed to L2P?

If the answer is anything but "yes", the only reasonable conclusion is that the Streaktaro (and in extension the SSRM-2) actually is overpowered.......

My answer is 'Yes' I remember well StreakCats and all the QQing...and they did take on assaults and heavies of the time. My answer was always L2P in those scenarios. My primary ride was a 4SP at the time, and I hunted THEM....one alpha, ear gone...they run...I chase...dead StreakCat.

I also take exception to the claim they are not useful against Assaults and Heavies. As the ONLY weapon system, yeah, then no...but as an ADDITIONAL weapon system, I'll take it. My highlander sports 4 of em along with 2 PPCs and a Gauss. Do I keep lights and mediums away? absolutely...do I stop firing them when facing an Assault or Heavie? Nope...chain spam all day every day. Any damage reduction WOULD make them useless vs Assaults and Heavies...while doing nothing to change them vs lights.

[Valore]

stjobe, on 03 October 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Now a lot of people seem to have an irrational hatred towards light 'mechs, which seems to be mainly stemming from the fact that they can't easily kill them when they (erroneously) think they should be able to, so I'm not surprised in the least that the Streaktaro has a lot of advocates and defenders here. So did the StreakCat back in the day.

No. Just no, a no pizza, with melted no, with extra no on top. And a large helping of no on the side.

People hate light mechs because at the moment, they're the worst affected by hitreg problems.

Its not people's incompetence that light mechs can't die, its the fact that so many light pilots think they're all that,exactly the way they did before their sudden fall to reality when HSR was first implemented and taking AC20 shots to the kisser brought them in droves into the forums QQing.

So in the sympathy stakes, they get little love.

I think a more pertinent point is so many people are saying they can't beat streaks using a light mech.

It shows a rotteness in the very core of light mech pilot thinking.

You're in a light mech. You brawl and skirmish by ducking away and running behind cover. You get the advantage of picking your battlefield. That's where you excel.

That SSRM heavy mech looks like a beech to fight? Guess what. You don't have to.

The exception being your Commando. However, if you get hunted down by a mech that's designed to kill you, that's more or less working as intended. Running back to team mates and asking your help would be the correct course of action. It doesn't work in PUGs maybe, but them's the breaks.

Edited by Valore, 03 October 2013 - 01:55 AM.

[Inkarnus]

i like my streaks favorable in 3 or 4 packs
they do what they need and in some mechs are better
as the srms

and to that light mech stuff sure ppl can kill light mechs with
other mechs except lights in my wang i hunt them down till kingdom
come
but most players want to drive an atlas and have the best turn rates
and wonder that they miss fast squirls thats the problem
player skill and players inabillity to adapt to there chassis.
On top that they dont realise that Assault mechs
are there to destroy other Assaults and Heavys
not light mechs


Oh btw did some ppl notice the time some patches ago
were we had 100% pinpoint accuracy?
Scouts didnt lived most of the time 1 encounter!
For lolz i testet it with a Jagbomb with 300XL in Conquest
and it was like shooting Birds out of the Sky 5 kills vs mostly
jenners ravens and all such fast stuff they had no chance!
The next patch revertet that very fast! Since it was totally
unfair for that lights i like it more now since it feels
you are able to do stuff except beeing obliteratet in an
instant! and for everyone bitching about scout mechs
hitreg get into one thats not a spider and play it for godsake!
You will realise they arent that good if you arent a very good player!

Edited by Inkarnus, 03 October 2013 - 02:34 AM.

[Krivvan]

Kunae, it really isn't as one-sided as you think it is. A Jenner can take on a Kintaro in a 1v1 if the pilot is good enough and the terrain is right.

With two good Jenner pilots, what happens is that it becomes a battle of breaking the other mech's streak lock. Streaks take time to lock on, sometimes longer than you have that other mech in view. The fact that streaks have a lock-on time is their weakness.

A streak Kintaro will certainly obliterate any above average to bad light, but is that really a bad thing? Streaks are close to damageless against heavier mechs. Hell, with 1.5 damage values, I was outright ignoring streak boats since I could tank the damage in my Jenner.

And there are builds for killing heavy and assault mechs. Gauss boats for one.

[Krivvan]

Kunae, on 02 October 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Fail math is fail. You only have to kill 1 component (other than arms) to effectively kill a light. You also happen to have a minimum of 2 medium lasers on it.

You had a point when streaks only hit one component. Now that streaks spread all around (even around a Jenner), they're really only decent for finishing off a component that you managed to eat through on another light. It's not that easy to efficiently kill a light with only streaks if the light has half a brain cell. Streak Kintaros at a higher level are deterrents and/or finishing shots.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 02 October 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

2013 is thisaway: KTO-19


But seriously, I do really own Kintaros and they do really $#%@ up enemy lights and mediums for very little effort.

4 Streaks F up lights(40 damage)? Sounds about right to me. Lights are not supposed to take a lot of damage and Streaks are supposed to be accurate. Why is it 'I got skillz' when I am killing everything and X is Overpowered when someone is killing me with bunches of them???

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 03 October 2013 - 03:19 AM.

[Chemie]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 02 October 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

As the #1 streak missile hater on this forum in months past, I THOUGHT with the recent adjustments streaks were borderline balanced finally, for the first time since August.

But then I was playing my new blackjack and ran into a Kintaro-18 deliberately capping our base on Tourmaline to draw back lights and mediums to kill. I had to close to streak range to stop the base cap.

Now I have destroyed lots of mechs 1 vs. 1 in this blackjack, including a Victor, which is supposed to be one of the hardest mechs to beat in a duel. But the Kintaro with no aiming required just ripped my Blackjack apart in seconds with its streaks, and there was nothing I could do. All the jump jetting acrobatics that allow me to survive against any other mech were useless. I was taken from light yellow armor to dead in seconds and killed while in mid-air.

Now apparently blackjacks are particularly susceptible to streaks, but that shows how broken the streak weapon system STILL is. A close range blackjack stands NO chance against a streak Kintaro. None. This is not a case of a short range mech beating a long range mech. This is two mediums, both configured for short range combat, where one completely DOMINATES the other thanks to a no skill auto-lockon homing projectile.

I agree about streaks. Get rid of 'em, once and for all. Til they're completely redesigned.

.

His scissors beat my paper...so nerf scissors. Paper should always win!

There should be configs that 1 on 1 beat another type of mech. Your "proof" is that even you said your config can beat many mechs...but it should not be able to beat all mechs! Sounds like it is working as intended.

[Cybermech]

I pilot Jenners all the time, even during the PPC fest.
I do disagree that streaks are very problematic to lights.
While I do really appreciate the time and effort Kunae has put into this thread, responding to many posts.
It is not something game breaking in my opinion when just talking about light vs streaks.
The other main point of taking no skills what so ever and damage vs risk this I do agree with.
Since srm's are not registering right there really is little to compare them.
Maybe slight damage reduction but since the streaks hit everywhere this to me makes the extra damage ok.

the things that are ruining my day in a light are not streaks, love seeing streak jenners/raven/commando when piloting jenner-f.
Kintaro's I would just avoid while taking snap shots at it.
Ac20 is getting some serious hit ratio on lights and that alone is way more of an issue for me.
I can watch people miss and still register hit on the center torso.
Never mind trying to evade 2xac2's 2xac5's phreks..

Those who can aim in heavies and assaults are just horrible to go up against.
One mistake and you have to hide from the enemy lights the rest of the match

Edited by Cybermech, 03 October 2013 - 03:50 AM.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 October 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

4 Streaks F up lights(40 damage)? Sounds about right to me. Lights are not supposed to take a lot of damage and Streaks are supposed to be accurate. Why is it 'I got skillz' when I am killing everything and X is Overpowered when someone is killing me with bunches of them???

I don't think you quite get my position. I am the one playing "scissors" to other people's "paper" right now. Yes, I am in fact asking for a rework of a mechanic than I am current (ab)using. Just like I did for ECM during the reign of the 3L, or PPC adjustments during the PPC meta, or UAC/5 reductions during the very brief UAC/5 meta. Most of the things I complain about are the things I use the most and most of time the things I ask for buffs for are the items I don't use much or at all at the moment (i.e. Flamers, LBX, etc.).

In fact, Streak SRMs currently rank as the weapon I have dealt the second most damage with--surpassed only by Medium Lasers. And this isn't even counting my alternate account that I grinded StreakTrebuchets with several months back, or my Craven 3L usage prior to Elo and the stat reset that accompanied it.

Edited by FupDup, 03 October 2013 - 03:53 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I appreciate that Fup. But the abuse is not in the SSRM it is in boating of them. That has and will always make a weapon seem over powered. Is a Medium laser over powered? Is 9 of them? Is a PPC or 2 over powered or is 4-6 of them to much? 2-3 Machine guns are nothing to fear but 8-12 should be respected.

I had 2 SSRMs (I think) on my Sara. I pulled them cause of ECM and that they just take to long to cut down other lights. I replaced them with SRM4s, I'm happy now.