37 replies to this topic

[Conso]

Hello,

I downloaded this game a few days ago and have been trying it out. I've never played a Mechwarrior game before. The most experience I've had with the Battletech universe was when an 11ish year-old me picked up a copy of Mechcommander from the bargin-bin in the early 2000's. I'm having a blast so far, though. The slower, more tactical feel is a welcome change of pace from most shooters. I'm looking forward to getting more involved in it.

What I'm looking for right now is advice from people who have more experience with this game and franchise to help me develop a mech and build that suits my playstyle.


Over the years I've found the role I feel most comfortable in is a sort-of Lancer/Knight-type (I'm not certain what the equivalent might be called in Mechwarrior). That is to say a versatile class that combines decent survivablity with good mobility and high damage. Able to perform most roles competently if required, but at its best when using that mobility and versatility to engage the enemy where he is at a disadvantage. Close combat foes at long range, snipers at close range; outshooting lighter foes, outmaneuvering heavier foes, etc, etc.

To that end, I prefer precise weapons that deliver a high amount of damage in a one-shot or short burst (to allow popping into/out of cover against bigger foes and snap-shooting quicker foes before they can get away) and that is most effective at mid-range but can engage at close and long if needed. Like the high-powered assault rifles found in most shooters.



I figure the mech I'm looking for sits in the medium to heavy range, while some sort of autocannon seems the best for a primary weapon.

So far, I've tried out the Hunchback 4G and the Cataphract 4X. I picked out the HBK-4G for its' AC20 and while I like it, I think the AC20's range is too short for what I need and is too easy to be targeted and destroyed. The Cataphract CTF-4X was great and I love the feel of the AC10 and the AC5 but the mech itself moves too damn slow (When Assault Mechs are virtually skipping by you it tends to hurt the self-esteem).


The Shadow Hawk looks pretty damn promising to my newbie eyes, but in the meantime I'm looking at the Dragon, the Jaggermech and the Centurion.


If you have any suggestions for mechs, weapons, builds or the like, I'd appreciate it.

Edited by Conso, 02 October 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[Dan Baxter]

A good resource you may want to try for this game is Smurfy's mechlab here. It lets you see all of the 'mechs currently in game and design hypothetical builds you could use while projecting the hypothetical cost of each build.

[scJazz]

While you are there check out the Cataphract 3D which has always been a usable "competitive" mech no matter what the currect FOTM happens to be.

Now... just...
buy a Cataphract 3D
pew pew with ballistics, with energy backups and JJ
???
Win

When PGI gets bored with the currect Ballistic OP Meta and nerfs them because people got tired of me blowing their arms off with Autocannons you can switch up line 2 to read... "pew pew with Energy with Ballistics backups and JJ" at which point the cycle of weapon balancing will revert to the original case and the cycle begins again. During this process the Cataphract 3D will never suck so have fun!

EDIT: Bonus points! I forgot! Cataphract is a form of Heavy Cavalry! You wanted a Lancer/Knight well here you go
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Cataphract

Edited by scJazz, 02 October 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[danneskold]

Well, the definition of what you are saying generally fits medium the best. Heavy and assault are slow, and you are looking to engage by dictating range,and using potent weapons to your foes disadvantage. This will be a bit controversial, so I am sure you will get those who disagree, but here goes.

I have divided up the mechs, based on speeds. In general, esp in the medium class, you have the faster and the slower mediums. Speed is a potent weapon, just look at the lights! In general, you are going to want to play light or medium to do what you say. For high output single weapons, you are right to look at a ballistic. The AC20 is a very fine weapon, but if you didnt like the range, then go for gauss. However, with the charge and other aspects, the gauss is hard to use if you get in close - you may find the 20 better, or compromise with the 10....but the 10 does half the damage of the 20 and is only 2 tons less.

In general, you are saying you want adequate protection, and high damage. this will mean you dont want to be in the open. You will not have enough armor to last. I think you should consider using terrain and speed and close the distance to your targets and dictate the fight.

You were probably close with the hunch, but it does have the weakness of most of the weapons in the hunch. While some may frown, I would actually say you might want to look at the blackjack. The blackjack can pack a very potent punch, has reasonably good speed with smaller engines, and more importantly - spreads the firepower between the arms, so you dont loose all in the hunch. With speed tweak, you can get to 93kph and not give up much. The hunchie will do 98, but most are engined down to fit weapons. Additionally, the BJ has jump jets. I would advise, whatever you choose, get JJ. nohting will help you better to mitigate the terrain and fight on your terms. This is the other reason to go light or medium - they climb the steeper slopes better than the heavies mechs. A BJ 1 can do 93, mount an AC20 (in the arm! + 4mls and has JJ (given your AC ammo is less, but you wont need a ton). Also viable, but wtih no JJ, is the centurion, which can do 115 kph. Centurion also can pack the AC20.

In the lights, you look at jenner. I use this as my fav. 5-6 ML gives you a 25-30 pt alpha, and you do 153 kph and carry 3 JJ to go anywhere. your armor is lighter, and you dont have the big hit single weapon - which you can get in the mediums.

[CheeseThief]

I would suggest a Centurion of some sort due to the sheer versitility of the chassis.

The capacity for large guns in the arm, good numbers of missile hardpoints for lots of SRM's, medium lasers in the central torso so you can take an exceptional licking and keep on fighting, and the capacity to do the lot while chugging along at 90kmph.

The A and AL are good early purchases.

The CN9-A can have it's weapons replaced with a UAC5, 2 ML and 2 SRM6's for a nice versitile build thats powerful at most ranges but not particularly fast. The CN9-AL can fit a PPC, 2ML, 2 SRM6+A with a large enough standard engine to carry it along at 90kmph if your willing to throw the c-bills at it and the current trial medium is a 'zombie' Centurion A, the medium lasers, lots of SRMs and lots of armour for a fast and exceptionally tough brawler mech.

The D is the most expensive centurion but it can't do anything that the A can't except for fitting a big enough engine to carry it along at 140kmph, although at the expense of most of it's firepower or armour. The Yen-Lo-Wang is also good fun since it's the firepower of a HBK-4G with the durability of a centurion paired with big enough engine options to carry it over 100kmph.


I'm playing Centurions at the moment in order to test out the various builds that I could be putting into the upcoming Shadowhawk, Wolverine and Griffin. Only 4.5 ton of difference between the mechs and a lack of jumpjets on the Centurion, but it's a great bed to test out a variety of different builds that can be used on the upcoming mediums.

My personal favorite is a CN9-A dressed up as one of the Wolverine's I want to make, 1 UAC5, 1 Medium Laser, 3 SRM6+A's and an XL235. As soon as my Phoenix reinforcement package arrives in december, that build gains jumpjets.

Edited by CheeseThief, 02 October 2013 - 10:40 PM.

[Mycrus]

centurion fits your style well... Max engine required

[Kargen]

My recommendation would be a Jaegermech or Catapult K2 with 2 x AC10's backed up with medium lasers. This will give you precise, hard hitting firepower at ranges up to 500m, roughly double that of the AC20.

With an XL300 engine, both these mechs will top out at 82 kph with speed tweak, whcich is a very decent speed for a heavy.

The Centurions, while a good mech and very fast, wont allow you to pack comparable firepower and versatility imo.

In any case, check out the mechspecs website for mech info and smurfy's mechlab for tinkering, they are brilliant

Edited by Kargen, 03 October 2013 - 01:11 AM.

[Mycrus]

Centurions and mediums in general will teach you good piloting skills... Other suggestions are just riding the meta...

On that note, a dragon will also be good mech if you really want to develop your skills... good dragon pilots can play anything effectively...

[Sadistic Savior]

Conso, on 02 October 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Over the years I've found the role I feel most comfortable in is a sort-of Lancer/Knight-type (I'm not certain what the equivalent might be called in Mechwarrior). That is to say a versatile class that combines decent survivablity with good mobility and high damage. Able to perform most roles competently if required, but at its best when using that mobility and versatility to engage the enemy where he is at a disadvantage. Close combat foes at long range, snipers at close range; outshooting lighter foes, outmaneuvering heavier foes, etc, etc.

The role you are describing sounds like close support to me. Heavy or medium mechs would fit that role best IMO.

Hunchbacks are good jack-of-all-trades mechs. They can use a variety of weapon types, and have decent armor and decent speed. But lots of mechs can fill this role. You have to decide which traits are more important to you. Is damage more important? Speed? Suvivability? Different mechs will have different attributes. Some have arms which give a greater range of motion. Some can torso-twist further.

This is not like other games where you can pick an archtype and know what specific roll you will play. In Battletech the roles are mostly generalized, with some mechs configured as specialists. A Hunchback is similar to a Jager in most ways, but each has some configuration options the other does not have.

You have to decide what specific actions you want to do the most, and then build a mech around that. Do you want to do a lot of damage? Be hard to kill? Move fast? No matter what mech you pick you will be compromising on these things.

Quote

To that end, I prefer precise weapons that deliver a high amount of damage in a one-shot or short burst

That is mostly ballistics. The best pinpoint damage weapons in the game are ballistic (AC10, AC20, and Gauss). Lots of mechs of all weight classes can carry them though.

Quote

(to allow popping into/out of cover against bigger foes and snap-shooting quicker foes before they can get away) and that is most effective at mid-range but can engage at close and long if needed. Like the high-powered assault rifles found in most shooters.

Gauss is a sniping weapon, meant for long range. AC/20 is a brawling weapon meant for short range. AC/10 is like a compromise between the two, and has a higher rate of fire.

Quote

I figure the mech I'm looking for sits in the medium to heavy range, while some sort of autocannon seems the best for a primary weapon.

Hunchbacks fit that description. Jagermechs are even better. Catapults can do it as well.

Quote

So far, I've tried out the Hunchback 4G and the Cataphract 4X. I picked out the HBK-4G for its' AC20 and while I like it, I think the AC20's range is too short for what I need and is too easy to be targeted and destroyed. The Cataphract CTF-4X was great and I love the feel of the AC10 and the AC5 but the mech itself moves too damn slow (When Assault Mechs are virtually skipping by you it tends to hurt the self-esteem).

I did not like the Cataphract because it's arms hang too low. Shooting over ridges in that thing is annoying. The Jager, by contrast, has arm weapons mounted high. I have owned both, and the Jager was much better IMO.

Speed is not everything. My Jager was slow, but could outdamage any Assault, even though it was lighter. heavy mechs tend to be better for damage. Assaults are better for survivability and diversity where weapons are concerned. My Jager could outdamage any Atlas.

[Koniving]

Links provided lead to videos.

Maxed XL engine Highlanders made with a combination of streaks, LB-10+AC/2 or AC/5 and ML can fill this role.
One was used in this video so you can see how well it performs.

(Don't have a screenshot of him, but here's another Highlander of mine.)

Spoiler

------------
For a mech you've already used, take a peek at what was done with a Hunchback 4G, an XL engine, 2 MGs, 3 SPL, and an LB-10. It may not be very knightly, but it meets the rest of the criteria.

The purple Hunch of trolldom.

Spoiler

------------
Centurions are favorites for what they are called. This video by 7 Nation Army has a bit of what they are about in their stock builds. (Note that the CN9-D, featured here in its trial version, has insanely weak armor and an XL engine. Even so in a team of 3 trials we butchered the other team in 4 out of 5 matches while taking this footage).

This is me in a Centurion CN9-A going toe to toe with an Atlas.

Spoiler

-------------
Of the Cataphracts, the 4x (which you said you tried) is by far the slowest. These aren't the best loadouts but here's two ideas of what nastier cataphracts can do.

The first idea is the high-speed Cata-Ragon (Cataphract thinks its a Dragon!) and Cata-Ragon 2. The Cata-ragon is a hit while running mech designed to hunt down enemy support mechs and rapidly butcher them with a torrent of fire, bombarding random targets with its single AC/2 to help cover its movements. It can rush up upon enemy missile boats even as the torrential rain is coming down and uses a Standard 340 engine to achieve this goal.

Then there's Lordred's patented IKBoSy (Illya Killya Balls of Steelya) made out of the Muromets. This mech is a bull-rusher. Ideally it will find a target isolated from others and bull rush it. The flamers keep the enemy blind. The UAC/5 and twin LB-10 combination are especially brutal against mechs of any class causing even lights to run or limp trying before the final blow.

Spoiler

Muromets.


This one's my Cataphract 4x.

Of course, many will just say get an Atlas. I mean how can you argue with this?

(And yes, that's ~my~ Atlas.)

Then again even in the right hands, a Blackjack can look intimidating.

Spoiler

If you need any build ideas I'm happy to help; just be aware my builds tend to be unconventional and may disturb both yourself and your enemies.

[Kenyon Burguess]

save your c-bills for the 55 ton mediums coming out over the next couple months. shadowhawk will fix your style nicely but your gonna need to have enough on hand for a good XL and double heatsinks day one.

[Koniving]

Shadowhawk won't be out until November (for Non-Phoenix Project buy-in players). o.o; So I guess you'll have a lot of time saving.

Edited by Koniving, 03 October 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

I would add my voice toward those suggesting the Centurion

Not sure what I could say that hasn't been said yet.
- Though I am surprised you haven't heard Koniving ranting about the DHS issue...

I will add this you are almost guaranteed to want at least a 250 grade engine in any mech you pilot IF you chose to mount DHS on it (machine gun boats being an exception )
Single Heat Sinks gain no benifite that I am aware of from the larger engines
The (up to) 10 Heat Sinks built into the engine are the only true Double Heat Sinks (one per 25 points of engine grade)
ALL Double Heat Sinks outside the engine are only worth 1.4 Single Heat Sinks.]

Since you are required to mount a minimum 10 heatsinks in a mech.
.....Yeah.

ANYWAYS!

Welcome to the game, and may your next match be a close one!

[Phlinger]

If you want to move fast, but be able to take a beating, and also want pin point accuracy and the ability to hit hard. Simple. Catapult K2 or Hunchback. Hunch can take quite a beating, but everyone knows to shoot your hump off and Cat's take CT hits pretty fast

I would suggest Jagermech, but with a fast XL engine they tend to be more of a glass cannon, they can still hit hard and when I say hard, I mean knock your opponents teeth into the next county hard. Dual AC/20's will do that, and you can even put an XL280 in one of those, which moves fast enough. When when they get focused, and they do, always, they go down pretty fast.

Centurians are great for being either a Zombie mech or a fast hitter, but their arms tend to fall off at the strangest times, weird right:P

I'd recomend a Dragon, but they take a very skilled touch to get right. But in the right hands, they are really mean strikers able to snipe and then circle around to core people from behind.

Cataphract pack a mean punch, but they tend to be slower, not too slow, just slower than the others.

[Eaerie]

I havent tried one yet but a cicada as a fast striker.
Just a couple observations of them from shooting at them.
they don't seem to have a glaring weekness like other mechs (huge CT/hump)
most of em are fast and pack a decent punch.
not as fragile as some other mechs using an XL engine (jager/cata)

Just pop up put in a couple hits, move to a new spot repeat.

[Flak Kannon]

Hi,

I'll chime in.

I think you would really like the Jager class of Mechs with a largish XL engine, 340 XL or the like.

You'll be able to hit mid 70's to mid 80's in KPH.

You'll have great fire power, but will be a little bit of a Glass Kannon. Just never be first in.

Use 2 or 3 UAC5's and throw in a couple medium lasers.

If you are good at snap shots, add a Gauss Kannon.



You may also like an Up engined Victor K, or a Cataphract 3D. They are both good Ballistic hard point mechs.




If you want Speed and Fire Power... don't over look the Jenner. They can get to 151 kph with 6 Medium lasers and a jump jets... that's a fun load out.


If you want to primarily kill lights, then go with the Kintaro with SSRM's and most important, BAP.


The Quickdraw is not a bad chassis either, its just heavy on energy hard points, but and can go quite fast and is hardy, being 60 tonnes. 2 ERLL and a slew of SL or a couple ML is a good loadout.


For reference sake, my Favorite mech is my Ilya Muromets... I currently run her with 3 LBX10's after using 3 UAC5's for months...

My second Favorite mech is any Jager with Dual Gauss rifles, firing together... they simply WRECK.

Third favorite whip is my AC20 Hunchback for what that's worth.. but its the hardest to survive in, thus making it a challenge for me personally.

So you have a lot of options...


Oh yeah... don't over look the Catapult K2... that might be the one...

[Conso]

Koniving, on 03 October 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

Shadowhawk won't be out until November (for Non-Phoenix Project buy-in players). o.o; So I guess you'll have a lot of time saving.

Well, I've already bought the Shadowhawk through the Phoenix Project, so I've got that going for me. I've been enjoying the game enough that I figured it was worth dropping money on, to support the developers if nothing else.

Anyway, thanks for the help, guys. I'll be spending some time in the mechlab fiddling with your suggestions. If you have anything else to add I'll be happy to hear it.

Thanks again.

[Zordicron]

So, you want:

Really fast
really powerful
really tough

Well, as a general rule, to keep the game balanced you cant have all three. You can have two of three, or some blend of the three, which is what I think you are after.

i think you want to play mid/close support fire with at least one weapon that can fire at long range so you dont feel left out at the start of the fight.

In order to be solid in that type of role, you need moderate speed, probably somthing in the high 70's at a minimum, mid 80's probably better. You want at least a stout medium, like a hunchie or cent. Weapons will depend on what chassis you end up in, so we will get to that.

my gut reaction to your post was "this man needs to buy a Yen Lo Wang" Centurian tough(tough for a medium) upgraded, can easily get into low 80's after tweak, and an AC20 arm for splat. Now, the wang is a love/hate type mech. I love mine. Some people abhor the thing. Running a different cent would give you an idea of at least the twist and speed of the thing without spending real cash. Needs DHS and an engine upgrade though. AC20 shorter range is not as big a deal on an 80kph Wang, you have enough speed to close the gap, and the arm mount makes aiming rather easier IMO compared to other mechs.

On a similar type of ride, a Dragon with an LBX in the arm and some potent lasers and a big engine would also do well, but requires an XL. Dragons perform quite well, AFTER you spend almost as much to upgrade it as you did to buy it. DHS, Endo, XL engine, ususally a whole new weapons loadout- but then it is a real solid performer, and if you want to invest in one it is worth it. I really liked the Flame, and after lots of messing around trying to find a loadout that fit me, the Fang and the 1C(very similar) also.

i would actually stay away fro Jagers, for what you want, i think you want something more low key on the field, and jagers garner a lot of attention what with the AC40 jagers people love to hate, plus they normally end up spending a lot of time facing a foe. Sounds like you want to show up to assist your pals, blow something away and fade out, Jagers dont do this as well as others.

K2 cat, could work too. Not quite as nimble as a cent, or a dragon even, but more tonnage for a little more power, and can handle an XL well enough. Costs quite a bit to loadout well though.

Phracts are too slow to "responde" to team needs, but are excellent support mechs with solid toughness if you hang with your team a bit more.

Heavier then that, eh going to be too slow. If you are an outstanding pilot, you could really wreck face with an Awesome 9M, but as you said you are new, eeehhhhh, i would stay away for now. Learn to master the dragon and then try an 9M maybe.

I would say for guns- AC20 on a Wang is solid, if you go phract it provides the big hurt for close up. Otherwise, an LBX inthe arm of a dragon, or a cent too, solid power for little heat and manageable tonnage. Good to spray at lights too compared to other AC. SRM are rock solid dmg for the brawl if you have decent hit detection. Multiple streaks are also solid choice, and allow you to take on the light hunter role if your team is under siege from the otherwise invincible spider squad. If you have a mech to tdo mid 80's KPH, you can run them a long ways off and then head back to your team to help again. multi medium lasers is solid, large laser is solid. Hunchioe 4SP with 5 ML, max Std engine and some SRM's is a potent, fast, tough(allocate armor on RT towards front, make sure to keep moving and never run face on to an enemy) for a medium, but lacks that long range.

IMO, I think if you are willing to forgo that long range bit, you could make a good hunchie loadout that does what you want. If you really want the longer range too, you will need either a Cent(less speed, somewhat less close range) or upgrade to a dragon(will cost a lot more c-bills)

The two mechs you have, the 4X will never do what you want it to. The hunchie if you drop the ac20 to an LBX and up the engine, throw some ML on it, might do what you are after, but I think best bet is to look for something new. I think Dragon might be the way to go, but you will need some c-bills stashed away to make it good. If you want something sooner for cheaper, make a cent-A. or drop some MC on a Wang.

[McKillynu]

You want a fast moving(large XL engine) Victor with AC20, lasers and jump jets. You get armour, maneuverablility and a good punch on your weapons.

[MavRCK]

Tier list - watch the videos.