60 replies to this topic

[ManyLazerz]

Hello MWO players,
I used to play mw4 back in my first year in highschool, but i was never very good.
I just started playing mwo, and i've decided that i want to save up some c-bills for a first mech,
I wanted to buy a heavy mech, and looking at the heavy mech i noticed that the quickdraw has decent armor and good speed for a heavy.
Is the quickdraw a good choice for a first mech, or would something simpler with more brute force be a better first heavy?

[Shaftronics]

I say play around with the Trial mechs and see what you like. The Dragon plays very similarly to the Quickdraw, so its a place to start. After getting used to the flow of things and knowing what you really want speed, armor and weapons-wise, then and only then, make the choice of buying your first mech.

[scJazz]

The Quickdraws are nice and nimble. I only pilot JJ equipped mechs so I'm a bit biased. There are no Trial Mechs currently that handle the way a Quickdraw does although the Dragon without Jump Jets will give you the feel of the mobility.

If jump capability is a requirement then your choices are Quickdraws or Cataphracts. I'm intentionally ignoring the Catapult even though it is my most favorite.

Jagermechs can make an excellent first choice since the different Variants use all 3 Weapon Systems.

You are probably better off buying a Jagermech DD or Cataphract 3D first. Both of these mechs come with an XL Engine which will be handy for future heavy mechs. The Cataphract 3D is widely known as a dangerous opponent and has been a favorite since it was released.

Check out Smurfy and play around with builds to get a feel for cost and configs. Do not even think about touching the Ferro-Fibrous button! Heavies and Assaults do not use it as a general rule.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

[Redshift2k5]

My classic response is: How fast do you want to go and what weapons do you want to bring when you get there?

I do like the Quickdraw and can offer some nice builds, but they all rely on a hefty 315 XL engine. Quickdraw is solid but it's reliance on XLs can be a downer as a first-buy; It's much more like a medium than a Heavy.

Play around on Smurfy; look at top speed, weapon types, and affordability.

[John MatriX82]

ManyLazerz, on 04 October 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

Is the quickdraw a good choice for a first mech, or would something simpler with more brute force be a better first heavy?

It's a good mech but suffers from being rather big (so it's easy to hit) and as the Dragons (btw: STAY AWAY FROM DRAGONS, they have become useless thanks to QKDs) you must spend money on DHS (this is mandatory for 95% of all the mechs), Endo Steel and most of the time, you'll require XL engines since you have to get a speed advantage because you can't stay engaged for long.
So add some cbills if you really plan to go after them and I suggest to run engines from the 320 and upwards (lower engines only if yu want to go LRM). Best variant is 5K, followed by 4H; 4G can be used to exp the first two, then you can get rid of it.

They have jumpjets, even 1 gives you an edge in dealing with terrain, otherwise they handle like Stalkers because their movement archetipe is the big one. Keep this in mind.


However I'd suggest to go the Cataphract way. They can do good builds with STD engines for brawling (so without being expensive besides ENDO and DHS, sometimes also FF), later on when you invest in XL engines you can recycle the 3D's 280 in any other variant or bring xl300 or 320/325 with ease in them. Best variant is the 3D by far, then 1X and 2X; 4X is usually overshadowed by Jagermechs and it's the slowest cataphract because you're limited to a 255 max engine so unless you want absolutely go Dakka, stay away from it.

Edited by John MatriX82, 04 October 2013 - 04:34 AM.

[Hastur Azargo]

Here's a rundown for you:

Dragons - Although ill-famed, Dragons are a very versatile platform, allowing for a multitude of builds, excelling at ballistic/laser mid-range combat, also fast! But Dragons have a specific trait of having a huge center torso, so you won't be too effective with them unless you learn to effectively maneuver a 60-tonner and stay out of killzones (and this means knowing maps well).

Quickdraws - Dragon's non-ballistic sister (you'll notice this trait with many chassis in same tonnage, like Centurion/Treb or Awesome/Victor). They are good mechs, although a bit more limited in build variety than Dragons. They handle almost like mediums and have jumpjets, but they have a limited number of missile tubes, so they're not too good with LRMs either. One of their most comfortable setups is SRM striker, quick builds with SRMs and lasers, but this means you'll have to make yourself comfortable with lasers and jump-brawling with SRMs, not to mention that SRMs aren't very powerful now, thanks to hit-registration issues the game has for now.

Catapults - A wonderful fire support mech, very versatile and comfortable, provided you don't mind staying in the back and raining death. C1 is the king of LRM/laser builds, and K2 rocks the world of laser/ballistic builds. Downside? They're not very optimal if you get into the heat of the battle, so expect to play with patience and less aggression if you pick them. Also, avoid packing SRMs, since those huge launcher "ears" are very easy to lose once people start shooting at you, and if you get close enough to deliver SRMs, people will be shooting at you.

Jagermech - Ah, here's the pure ballistic killer. Don't trust people that mount lasers and PPCs on torso, Jager's true strength is the ability to wield very effective cannon setups on its high-mounted "arms", and rain death on people from behind cover with little exposure of their own silhouettes. They are also very good at holding off enemy at choke-points (like passages into mid-platform of Terra Therma), and the amount of various ballistic setups you can do permits for a good variety (4-5 AC2s, 3-4 AC5s, 2-3 UAC5s, 2 AC10s, 2 AC20s, 2 Gauss Rifles etc. etc). Downside? They're pretty squishy once fired upon, and quite ineffective with anything but ballistics (Cat K2 does it better with PPCs, QKD-5K does it better with lasers, and sure, you can get a JM6-A and load it up with nothing but LRMS, but why didn't you buy a Cat C1 then?), so once again, get them only if you're comfortable with fire support role, instead of intense brawls.

Cataphracts - Now here's the puncher. It's 5 tons heavier than Cats and Jagers, and packs a number of well-placed ballistic/energy hardpoints. It also has a low profile, large arms and relatively small side-torsos, all of which contribute to its better survival under fire than its lighter sisters. To top that off, it's still reasonably fast (with a proper engine) and can do a multitude of great builds while mixing lasers/ballistics/PPCs. Also of note is that all of its variants have fairly unique falvors and are viable, which means if you eventually buy a second and third Phract with intent of unlocking master-traits for them all, you'll never get bored.

Orions - The heaviest mech of the bunch. I don't like it, which I described in detail in its thread. It's too heavy, too slow, too inert, with hardpoints that aren't particularly great, and although there are people that love it and work wonders with it, for me the Orion's best role as AC20/MedLas/SRM brawler is better fulfilled by Cataphract 2X.



Ultimate Recommendation - Cataphract 3D
. It's just too good. With all the virtues of the versatile and durable Phracts, it's also the only one with jumpjet capability, so it's definitely the best all-rounder mech for a beginner pilot.


Tip 1 - Don't worry too much about your first mech. If you don't like it too much, there's always a next one to buy, and if MWO captivates you, you're gonna end up with dozens and dozens of mechs anyway

Tip 2 - Remember this when designing your loadouts: energy weapons (all lasers and PPCs) do damage up to twice their optimal range (shown in lower right corner of HUD), and ballistics do damage up to 3 times their optimal range. This means that Medium Lasers that have effective range of 270m, do reduced damage past that range, and do no damage past 540m. And AC20 that also has an effective range of 270m, will do reduced damage beyond that range, and will do no damage past 810m.

P.S. - Note of trustworthiness - I own and have Elited: All 5 Dragons (including both heroes), all 3 Quickdraws, 3 Catapults (except for C4 which I find to be kinda lackluster), all 4 Jagers, all 5 Phracts and 4 Orions (excluding 1-M, because I didn't like them much to begin with, and the expensive 1-M is especially bad).

[990Dreams]

I personally enjoy the Jagermech and Orion. The Cataphract is too slow for my taste and a Quickdraw doesn't have enough weapon's variety. Dragon's aren't bad. Catapults are good for LRM boating and the K4 is good for sniping (3 ERPPCs will mess someone up). It depends on what role you plan to play. (Please rep so I know what role )

EDIT: Or get a Medium and save for new releases (Clans and Saber package Mechs [which I assume will eventually be available to all])

Edited by DavidHurricane, 04 October 2013 - 06:17 AM.

[Sadistic Savior]

ManyLazerz, on 04 October 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

Hello MWO players,
I used to play mw4 back in my first year in highschool, but i was never very good.

This is a very different game from that one. MWO is closer to the original Table top game. It is more simulator than arcade shooter.

Quote

I just started playing mwo, and i've decided that i want to save up some c-bills for a first mech,

I wanted to buy a heavy mech, and looking at the heavy mech i noticed that the quickdraw has decent armor and good speed for a heavy. Is the quickdraw a good choice for a first mech, or would something simpler with more brute force be a better first heavy?

What is it you like to do the most? As heavies go, I would probably go with a Catapult or Jagermech first. But it would be hard to give a good recommendation without knowing your playstyle and what you prefer to do the most.

You should determine your playstyle first, then build a mech around that. Do you prefer Brawling? Long/short range Support? Scouting? Sniping? Spotting?

[ManyLazerz]

Well since i neglected to mention my playstyle, i like to stay at the side or back of a group, checking corners and flanking mechs or small groups so that they are under fire from 2 directions. Sometimes i can safely fire a couple of volleys, sometimes a mech or a few mechs will attempt to kill me, if this happens i usually pop back around the corner and try to keep em focused on me so that the other mechs can advance or shoot in relative safety.
This usually involves looking threathening but not actually doing a lot of damage.
I figured this would be safer with a quickdraw since it has good armor and is fast enought to allow some maneuvering.
The jj would also help to escape that bit easier or to flank em a bit easier. But im worried that the hardpoints might be to low, which could be a problem. And that the firepower might be to low to threaten them enough to break of.
i also want to be capable of brawling, since there's always the chance i encounter a lone mech whilst attempting to flank.

Staying in the back with ERlarge lasers or ppcs with some short range firepower. I suspect this might even be usefull for brawling or flanking, in addition to long range support.

So it basicly comes down to this, i want a mech that can be fitted for brawling, flanking and long range support.

So far the quickdraw variants and the cataphract 3d sound very interesting.
Would speed or survivability be more important for a newb? i'm guessing survivability.

[MavRCK]

Tier list and videos. I wouldn't recommend a quickdraw.

[rdmgraziel]

Every 'Mech has the potential to be good (in the right hands) but some are substantially more newb friendly. My feelings on the Cataphract are mixed and I sometimes regret purchashing them. Most Heavy 'Mech builds seem to favor XL engines at the moment for more speed/firepower. Most of the Heavies that are XL friendly are friendly due to a large CT and small side torsos (i.e. they were going to be getting cored out anyway). Additionally, if they don't see an Assault 'Mech, you're almost automatically a priority target (at least for the Heavies 65 and up).

The Quickdraw is a solid striker/brawler with big beefy arms to protect it, and with a fast enough engine you can spread the damage reasonably enough to survive a good while. The chassis is also more compact than a Dragon and it gets jumpjets, but you're stuck with PPCs, Pulse lasers, or SRMs to actually get reliable kills due to the damage-over-time nature of normal lasers.

The Dragon is a tricky beast that really only excels as a fast striker. It's more or less been replaced by the Quickdraw which between jumpjets and better overall hitboxes is vastly more survivable, but every Dragon can mount a ballistic, which can be dedicated to sniping or killing blows.

Catapults are solid but share the Dragon problem of a MASSIVE CT hitbox so they're easy to core out. Really good support 'Mechs with a slant towards LRMs (or on the K2 PPCs or Gauss).

Jagermechs are a ******* nightmare of a ballistics boat, but most Jager builds end up with an XL engine to abuse their full potential, and between that and easy to hit side torsos they aren't particularly survivable. Also comes with an LRM frienldy variant. Everyone hates being on the wrong end of a Jager, so expect to be focused if you're out of position.

Cataphracts are odd awkward things with a broad front profile which means they tend to soak alot of hits on the CT and side toros (at least in my experience). They do have beefy arms though, so with a big enough engine you can toso twist fast and use those to soak some hits. Most of their firepower is around hip level outside of the two side torso energy hardpoints, so unlike the Jager they're "meh" direct fire support 'Mechs unless you're using paired PPCs. The exception is the 3D which can just jump to snipe.

The Orion is a poor man's Atlas with better missile hardpoints. I haven't purchased one or fought enough of them as yet, but I have heard rumors of large CT hitboxes, so they might be prime candidates for an XL or it could be suicide to do so. Their arms do about as much to protect them as the arms of an Atlas, I imagine, but it really does depend on how big that CT hitbox is. In theory they can roll as Brawlers or LRM boats, but like the Cataphract sub-par direct-fire locations, so don't expect to snipe without exposing most of yourself in the process.

[ManyLazerz]

I've been playing around with the current trial dragon, and he seems fine, but his firepower seems a bit lacking. he has 2 large lasers and a gaus, but i usually end up just using 1 of those in a particular engagement. Hitting the gauss short range is hard.
Would something like this with the same speed(80kph) and a bit more firepower be possible with a cathapract 3d or is a dragon better for this?

[Koniving]

ManyLazerz, on 04 October 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

I've been playing around with the current trial dragon, and he seems fine, but his firepower seems a bit lacking. he has 2 large lasers and a gaus, but i usually end up just using 1 of those in a particular engagement. Hitting the gauss short range is hard.
Would something like this with the same speed(80kph) and a bit more firepower be possible with a cathapract 3d or is a dragon better for this?

Cataphract 1x demonstrating what you've asked. However, the condition is large quantities of less firepower or perhaps limited quantities of heavy firepower.

Again using the 1x, this time as a way of dealing with an enemy missile boat rapidly.


You could in theory make one with twin PPCs and twin ACs, but you wouldn't be able to hold much ammo or heatsinks.

Quickdraw and Dragons are best as hit and run mechs, however the champion build is a slow Dragon made for sniping and high heat efficiency.

Edited by Koniving, 04 October 2013 - 10:14 AM.

[Koniving]

Azargo, on 04 October 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

Have a limited number of missile tubes, so they're not too good with LRMs either.

Fun thing to notice... Despite an Awesome's ability to simultaneously fire 80 LRMs at the same time before ghost heat, a Victor with its 17 missile tubes is actually a superior missile boat.

The more missiles you fire at once, the wider the missile spread. The wider they spread, the less focused the damage is. The less focus it is, the more the missiles are wasted. With 80 LRMs the spread looks like something from an artillery strike with a full 20 meter radius around your target. That means of the 80 missiles, 30 got totally wasted. Most of the rest hit arms and legs and side torsos and head and such.

The Victor might only have 17 tubes, but when firing 3 LRM-15s from these 17 tubes, the missiles are so focused on the CT that the time to kill ratio is significantly lower. Sometimes as much as 10 seconds lower versus an Awesome 8R firing 4 LRM-15s in 30 missile salvos.

More tubes = more missiles = shotgun effect.
Fewer tubes = streamed missiles = precision strikes.

More tubes guarantees some hits on lights and better damage count returns. Fewer tubes means faster kills.

Note that a Victor's 17 tubes are divided as such: 10 for launcher 1. 5 for launcher 2. 2 for launcher 3.

[Mechteric]

I wouldn't recommend a Quickdraw to anyone right now, not until they make it not as big as a highlander. Dragon is a fun choice as a fast raider, though I think Cataphract and Orion are more solid if you aren't looking to go fast.

[Koniving]

I'll go a step further to say I wouldn't recommend a quickdraw's default loadout to a new player. The Quickdraw, however, does not stand all the way up and instead has its legs always bent at a 30 degree angle or more. It spends any time it does have stationary by literally 'crouching' part way.

However, I've finally "unstocked" my Quickdraw and it's performing quite well. I would not say it's an ideal all around combatant. It favors anti-light and anti-medium duties. And as I've just learned it makes a fantastic running missile boat.

Edited by Koniving, 04 October 2013 - 11:12 AM.

[GMAK]

Jaggermech are the best. And the fireband. Hunchback too can carry a lot of laser with a fast speed. Heavy are too slow. Good anyway but I prefer the speed of the medium.

[Karandor]

I've been using an orion-v recently and doing very well in it.

I like that hard points because it can run as a brawler, sniper or LRM boat. My favourite build is currently 2 AC5 and 2 PPCs.

The ballistics hardpoints are pretty high on the torso and decent for shooting over top of terrain. The arms are a bit low but once you get use to it it's not too bad.

The CT does get hit easily but you have enough armor to take some punishment. Once I learned how to twist in it to avoid damage a bit better I've become much harder to kill. Brawling without an XL is not a good idea while I think for medium to long range a standard engine is fine.

[Royalewithcheese]

Cataphract 3D.

[Victor Morson]

Royalewithcheese, on 04 October 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

Cataphract 3D.

Listen to this man.