16 replies to this topic

[Capt Deadpool]

So I have a Catapult K2 from when I was playing in the beta last year. I am just getting back into the game and clearly some changes have been made. I feel like I am much less agile, have very poor torso twist speed, and much more heat with my dual AC20's or Gauss. (I do have the masteries/modules upgraded as much as possible for only owning 1 mech). In short, getting blown up a lot by more agile and heat effective mechs

So I have a few questions if anyone wouldn't mind helping me out:

1. For a heavy hitting, agile brawler what would be your top recommendation? (links to builds are welcome!)
2. Is there a heavy brawler variant/build that is the most popular right now?
3. Is there a place where I can see what the torso twist speeds are for all the mechs?
4. If not, what you you guys feel are the heavies with the fastest torso twisting, and do these variants make good brawlers?

Thanks in advance!

[Mr Andersson]

Do you know about heat scale, aka ghost heat? If you fire two AC/20 at the same time you get a massive extra heat buildup. Also, Catapults do not make good brawlers.

To answer some of your questions
1. There are lots of options. Not knowing your weapon preferences, it's hard to know where to begin, but for dual AC/20s, Jagermech is the way to go. I like the Cataphract, but it's not optimal for in-your-face brawling.
2. Dual AC/20 Jagermech is one. I also see a lot of Centurions out there. And Hunchbacks, of course.
3. http://mwo.gamepedia...omparison_Table

Edit: I think the speed of torso twisting is determined by your engine rating, possibly with some mech specific factor as well.

Edited by Mr Andersson, 26 September 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[Capt Deadpool]

Thank you for the response!

I am undecided between a laser brawler or an autocannon brawler, or a hybrid...

A couple additional questions, can a dual ac/20 jager run cool?

I am also a little confused about whether or not I should run XL engines, and on which mechs?


Lots of questions, I know!

[Xeno Phalcon]

Dienekes001, on 26 September 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Thank you for the response!

I am undecided between a laser brawler or an autocannon brawler, or a hybrid...

A couple additional questions, can a dual ac/20 jager run cool?

I am also a little confused about whether or not I should run XL engines, and on which mechs?


Lots of questions, I know!

Depends on the mech and how brawly you want to be on the XL thing. AC40 jagers can run cool but ONLY if you dont fire the cannons at the same time, you need to wait like a second or two for the ghost heat trigger to F'off.

This is a (very) general breakdown of XL or not to XL

Dragon - XL (Always)
Cataphract - Standard (mostly)
Catapult - XL (always)
Orion - XL (mostly always unless you want a AC20 on it)
Quickdraw - Standard (Mostly dosnt matter, your gonna get legged and cored no matter the engine)
Jagermech - Standard (Standard for brawly, XL is okay for most though jagers are easy to side torso pop)

The general census among most players is you shouldnt be brawling in close range with a XL, medium range is okay though for the most part.

-----------------

As for laser, cannon or hybrid thats up to you and your mech, cataphs do great with pure autocannons but dragons and K2 can do pretty well with hybrid stuff (2LL/Gauss is the current 'popular' dragon build I see alot , and 2xAC10 + MLasers for K2s of late) for orions I personally prefer to drop the cannon in favor of missiles.

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 26 September 2013 - 04:52 PM.

[Capt Deadpool]

That is very helpful, thanks!

[Modo44]

Dienekes001, on 26 September 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

1. For a heavy hitting, agile brawler what would be your top recommendation? (links to builds are welcome!)
2. Is there a heavy brawler variant/build that is the most popular right now?

AC20 Cataphract 3D (one of many variants). Death from above. Or below. Or behind. Good for many other builds, too. It is not super fast, but the jjs provide great mobility compared to other heavy (65t+) heavies, and allow silly damage spreading (just jump and turn when fired upon).

Dienekes001, on 26 September 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

1. For a heavy hitting, agile brawler what would be your top recommendation? (links to builds are welcome!)
4. If not, what you you guys feel are the heavies with the fastest torso twisting, and do these variants make good brawlers?

The Orion has very fast torso twist, but its big CT and bad walking habits (handles like a Stalker) make it pretty bad at brawling. You already have the K2, which is pretty good, actually. The Cataphract 3D has OK torso twist, but the jjs can make it magically hit-resistant.

[Vincian]

I can recommend Modo44s loadout. I play a very similar loadout with a bigger standard engine and would tweak it a bit:
1xJJ is enough for "climbing" a hill. One free ton you should invest in another ton of ammo and the rest should go into your leg armor or another heatsink. And put the ammo in the legs. I was not once legged with my 3D.

In my opinion you don't do yourself a favor playing Dual AC/20 'Mechs. They are still one of the most hated and first killed loadouts.

I had a lot of fun with my Quickdraw loadouts too. But remind you have no ballistic hardpoints choosing that 'Mech.
Not really a heavy, allthough it feels like one, is the Victor. JJs, AC20 + laser and missile hardpoints you have the choice. Its even more versatile than the 3D or a Catapult.

But most important: Dont listen to guys like me or Modo44. Look at

http://www.mechspecs.com/forum/

for some loadouts and try around, which suits your playstyle.

See you on the battlefield.

Modo44, on 27 September 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

AC20 Cataphract 3D (one of many variants). Death from above. Or below. Or behind. Good for many other builds, too. It is not super fast, but the jjs provide great mobility compared to other heavy (65t+) heavies, and allow silly damage spreading (just jump and turn when fired upon).


The Orion has very fast torso twist, but its big CT and bad walking habits (handles like a Stalker) make it pretty bad at brawling. You already have the K2, which is pretty good, actually. The Cataphract 3D has OK torso twist, but the jjs can make it magically hit-resistant.

Edited by Vincian, 27 September 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[Capt Deadpool]

Thank you very much for the advice guys. I wish there was a way to try out the mechs before I bought them to see how I liked their handling/loadouts.

Maybe I just need to upgrade my standard 220 engine in my K2 to something faster in an XL. I didn't know the engine power determined torso twist speed. I am somewhat more effective with dual ac/10's and 2 medium lasers. Problem is buying a good engine is almost the same as buying a new mech...

Edited by Dienekes001, 27 September 2013 - 08:47 PM.

[Modo44]

Anything from XL255 to XL300 will do well. Lower ratings let you pack big guns with enough ammo/backup lasers, while higher ratings are great when taking powerful energy weapons.

By the way, the Cataphract 3D comes with the XL280 engine. Just saying.

[Greyrook]

Dienekes001, on 27 September 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

Thank you very much for the advice guys. I wish there was a way to try out the mechs before I bought them to see how I liked their handling/loadouts.

Maybe I just need to upgrade my standard 220 engine in my K2 to something faster in an XL. I didn't know the engine power determined torso twist speed. I am somewhat more effective with dual ac/10's and 2 medium lasers. Problem is buying a good engine is almost the same as buying a new mech...

Cats, even "brawler" cats, should always use XLs in my opinion (except for dual AC/20 builds, naturally). I would try out a 4LL K2 if I were you, they make pretty nasty brawlers although they can be a bit finicky to build out depending on whether you want to maximize heat sinks, armor, or add in MGs for crit-seeking. Here's one I just threw together http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ff7a368f8be8b3b, I'm sure you can see the potential for swapping in pulse lasers or ditching the MGs or what have you. But this think can hustle and deal out respectable damage from decent range.

Edited by Greyrook, 27 September 2013 - 09:49 PM.

[Hex Pallett]

To put it out there first, I have this irrationally hatred toward any K2 build that does not resemble a K3. It's criminal to me wasting the two shoulder-high hardpoints. Besides, you don't even need an XL for a K3 build.

But to answer your questions, as a main-Heavy player who owns 'pults, 'phracts, Jagers and Orions:

1: Cataphracts are no doubt the best brawlers. It doesn't take much to be good in an 1X with STD100, five MLas and an AC20, and the 3D with a similar loadout - but, plus JJ - is ridiculous to ride. Ilya is ungodly powerful with akimbo-Gauss or triple-UAC5, and quad-AC2/AC5 4X is absolutely lethal.

But, there's also Jagermech who can mount twin-AC20 in the arms with XL. And all of them can be decent mid-range support 'Mechs. Orions can mount AC20 but I find it hard to equit proper complementary weapons, plus they can take quite a batter so I recommend going mid-range with XL engines.

2: I'm afraid that might be dual-AC20 Jagers, but that also basically marks you as mega-noob and you'll get twenty enemies going for your side torsos. So I'd say Cataphracts.

3: For twist speed? I don't think there's one.

4: I'd say I feel pretty comfortable with a 300 engine in any of my phracts.

[Capt Deadpool]

Great information, thanks again fells. I think I may keep my K2 and purchase a CTF-3D, and use the XL280 engine for both. And then sell and upgrade to a 300+ engine later if I feel like it's not enough. The victor and jagger also look like they would also suit my style of play, so I may pick those up next.

The 3D looks great due to the versatility and it looks like it has a few really good high hardpoints for hill-popping, which the Victor lacks. But it also has some more tonnage than is available to the Jagg and may be a bit more survivable with an XL engine. That sound about right?

Edited by Dienekes001, 28 September 2013 - 08:05 PM.

[Mahws]

Pretty much. Every player worth their salt will side torso strip a Jager given half a chance, but their high weapon placement and XL ballistic boating still make them very viable.

Make sure you check the ghost heat values (good reference table on Smurfy) when designing your mechs. For example although 3xLL does generate ghost heat it's a small enough amount that it doesn't really effect the viability, whereas 4xLL generates way, way too much heat.

For your K2 build I'd really recommend either a 3xLL + 1PPC build, or a 2xLL + 2xPPC build.

[juxstapo]

[shrugs]
Bucking convention, but my K2 and 3D are almost siblings.

CPTL-K2: 315XL, 2 ER-PPC's, 1 LrgPulse, max armor, DHS (of course) and Endo.

CTF-3D: 330XL, 2 LrgPulse, 1 high mounted ER-PPC, Max armor, DHS, Endo, 3 jjs

First one majors in sniping and minors in brawling, the second vice-versa. Only run them when dropping with my team now, use solo time to grind xp for chassis not yet mastered, but they are two machines that always give me a good time. I'm always successfully contributing in these two. (And for that matter in my ac/20 capable Victors as well).
Don't discount your K2, just move your game out a few hundred meters. The 3D is also a fantastic purchase, however, unlike most here, I'd be quick to max (or at lease "high") engine the thing and spring for more jump jets.

[tib3r]

Check this out.

In all seriousness, that is the build from my firebrand. The twin LBXs work great up close. AC20s fire too slow- I have an AC40 JM that I have been learning that monster weapon on.

PPCs run just too hot for my tastes, and I have found that I only run out of ammo if:
1. I am hunting a spider that is moving faster then I can aim for well.
2. I just landed like four kills. With LBX and some added fun for a weapons rotation? That is totally plausible.

Helmstif, on 27 September 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

2: I'm afraid that might be dual-AC20 Jagers, but that also basically marks you as mega-noob and you'll get twenty enemies going for your side torsos. So I'd say Cataphracts.

I put that to the test, and your right, people find this urge to face roll you when you rock an AC40 build.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Cataphract *****- best all round brawler
Jagermech ****- dual AC20 but everyone knows and counters this. Jagers are also best vs Kaiju.
Catapult ****- K2 is a Jagermech with different slot layout and hitboxes.
Orion ***- fantastic weight capacity and hardpoint choices but enormous center torso.
Dragon **- fun but you can get an Orion the same speed and carrying more weapons.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 05 October 2013 - 06:09 PM.

[Mahws]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 05 October 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

Dragon **- fun but you can get an Orion the same speed and carrying more weapons.

Not really, Orions max out at 85 with speed tweak with a 360 engine. A dragon with an 285 runs the same speed with about the same tonnage left over for weapons. Armour is the Orion's advantage. Most decent dragon builds are significantly faster though, I run mine at 95 mostly, but there are some decent 107kp/h builds.

The real competitor for Dragons is the Quickdraw. The hitboxes are more forgiving (though that can go either way with an XL), they have the option of jumpjets, but mostly it's the weapon hardpoints that give the QD the edge. Ballistics are simply too heavy to be worthwhile on a fast 60 tonner.