8 replies to this topic

[VezRoth]

My computer is not exactly a fantastic machine. I enjoy the game though so because of my issues with computer power I have fallen into the role of Long Range Support. As such, I've fallen into the more specific role of Indirect LRM rain support. So far, my three mechs are the TBT (5?)N with Two LRM 15s, the CPLT C1 also with Two LRM 15s and a AWS 8R with 4 LRM 15s.

My issue is the following: A light, most often a Spider or a Jenner can be in LOS (Line Of Sight) less than 500 meters away and moving parraell to my position and not get hit by a single missile from any of those spreads.

Artemis. Does nothing. I'm not entirely certain that Artemis is worth the weight at this point, I don't use it on my TBT and it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. My CPLT C1 has it... again, I don't see the difference between on and off. People say it's more accurate with a tighter spread? I'm not really noticing it.

My AWS is the issue I'm REALLY having right now. That's about as LRMboat as a LRMBoat can get until/unless we bring in the Longbow. A full spread, single fired not chained, of 60 Missiles... not a single hit. I watch it happen. The Jenner/Spider is moving at such a speed that NOTHING hits. Not a leg, shoulder, nowhere. That's a huge waste of ammunition for a machine that vomits out 60 missiles in a spread on a target that by all rights should be in the orange... SOMEWHERE

Is this just a consistent issue of the hitbox problems? Is this just a problem that needs to be addressed with the propulsion system with the LRMs, they simply are not moving fast enough to catch up with the faster light builds?

Something more should be done to Artemis, if that's the case. Aside from making it a closer cluster, it should be straight up better guidance. If I'm going to sacrifice that extra tonnage for the guidance, and pay more money straight up for the better ammo there should be a reason to do it instead of some arguably better damage from a tighter spread.

[rolly]

Hey Vez,

I don't rely as heavily on LRM's as you would. But LRM's are always my first response weapon when a target shows itself. Other than the obvious hitbox problems (from what I've been reading the Spider is fairly broken), I have been lucky enough to tag a Jenner or two on occasion.

Though I never launch within visual, or within medium or short (210m) unless the light is coming at me or running away. The most luck I've had is when they're cutting into a turn and there by slowing down, or already engaged, or about to run onto some rough terrain. Otherwise at full tilt I won't launch. I can do this with or without Artemis.

I think the key thing here is judicious use of LRM's. Yes its going to be an awful waste on a light. But on occasion that 30-60 missile volley does hurt when it finally tags them or they're engaged and distracted.

Hope this helps!

Edited by rolly, 05 October 2013 - 05:11 PM.

[VezRoth]

rolly, on 05 October 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Hey Vez,

I don't rely as heavily on LRM's are you would. But LRM's are always my first response weapon when a target shows itself. Other than the obvious hitbox problems (from what I've been reading the Spider is fairly broken), I have been lucky enough to tag a Jenner or two on occasion.

Though I never launch within visual, or within medium or short (210m) unless the light is coming at me or running away. The most luck I've had is when they're cutting into a turn and there by slowing down, or already engaged, or about to run onto some rough terrain. Otherwise at full tilt I won't launch. I can do this with or without Artemis.

I think the key thing here is judicious use of LRM's. Yes its going to be an awful waste on a light. But on occasion that 30-60 missile volley does hurt when it finally tags them or they're engaged and distracted.

Hope this helps!

Oh it's not to say that I'm not making it rain! I am... but something is seriously wrong when I need to use a full ton (180) missiles sometimes to kill a LIGHT mech. That's not including the damage being rained down on them by my teammates, most of which are using direct fire weaponry like ACs, Lasers, and PPCs. Something is wrong there if two or three full salvos of missiles do jack-all.

[Malzel]

Using one weapon, exclusively, will obviously have some drawbacks. It's okay if you use LRMs because of your hardware situation, but you can't expect to excel using one weapon system only. Yes, light mechs' speed gives them some advantages when facing an LRM-heavy opponent. That's not bad, given the absolutely devastating effect massed LRMs + Artemis + TAG can have on heavier targets, and the relative fragility of lights when faced with other, direct fire weapons. Call it a balancing factor.

As you've mentioned that none of your missiles hit when targeting a light mech moving parallel to your position, the logical conclusion would be to not fire at lights moving perpendicular to your position. Fire only when they're coming toward you or running away, or accept the fact that LRMs are designed to hammer slower, heavier targets, and let other teammates handle fast, light targets.

One weapon should never be 100% effective on all opponents in all situations.

[rolly]

VezRoth, on 05 October 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Oh it's not to say that I'm not making it rain! I am... but something is seriously wrong when I need to use a full ton (180) missiles sometimes to kill a LIGHT mech. That's not including the damage being rained down on them by my teammates, most of which are using direct fire weaponry like ACs, Lasers, and PPCs. Something is wrong there if two or three full salvos of missiles do jack-all.

Thing is, you're using a barrage weapon on a speeding target. Its not the artemis or missile that needs tweaking. Just don't shoot at something you're less likely to hit.

To be honest, its ineffective use of an LRM boats asset. Saturation. Out of say 60 missile, maybe 10% will hit? I personally don't bother, and let just keep tabs on the lights and ensure I'm well screened from them. Then drop 60 LRM's on a slower, more crucial target.

[VezRoth]

Malzel, on 05 October 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

or accept the fact that LRMs are designed to hammer slower, heavier targets, and let other teammates handle fast, light targets.

One weapon should never be 100% effective on all opponents in all situations.

I've pretty much resigned myself to refusing to do the Spider Shuffle or LightMech Twist because I'm there just as support. It's fine, but it's just something that I think that PGI needs to keep in mind.

Even against the heavier targets I don't really see too much damage increase from Artemis. My TBT seems to do about the same damage as my CPLT, that's my biggest concern.

[Death Weasel]

Fortunately / Unfortunately a good light mech pilot with jump jets can dodge LRMs. I have seen it and have done it.
The easiest way is to watch the missiles and jump when they get close, the missiles will not be able to turn inside the curve needed to strike.
It isn't foolproof, but it does increase survival of the light mech.
Wait till they are engaged or focused on someone else.
Good luck.

[Malzel]

VezRoth, on 05 October 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Even against the heavier targets I don't really see too much damage increase from Artemis. My TBT seems to do about the same damage as my CPLT, that's my biggest concern.

That depends on how you play. Artemis IV doesn't give any bonuses if you don't have line of sight to your target, so if you do a lot of your LRM work via indirect fire, then yeah, you won't notice the difference. It helps with the damage spread on targets you can see, though. No, you probably wouldn't notice a big boost in your overall damage, but the damage you deal is more focused toward the CT, which makes them more potent killing weapons.

It's even better when combined with TAG, since its accuracy boost stacks with Arty IV's. 30-40 LRMs with TAG and Arty IV will put most of those missiles on someone's CT. That can core out an Atlas in 3-4 shots, easy.

[Svidro]

If you can put the TAG bonus on the light about a second before the missiles hit, you should at least be doing damage. The improvement to tracking lets me do some damage to lights consistently in my LRM Treb.