33 replies to this topic

[Lukoi Banacek]

OP I don't have your experience at all with this. I see plenty of side torsos get blown off and in the case of ammo dependent pita Mechs, I see them getting legged with more frequency as of late.

If you're running a build that's probably an XL, then I'm aiming side torso every time (usually right side unless you're in an AC20 dragon or something). People roll their torsos and in the Elo range I seem to be playing in, I see alot of people walking out with barely a piece of armor left on them. They use up all of their body before going down very often.

As for why people are going after CT....why not? Why leave you on the field alive to be a threat? Killing you quicker (or turn you into a pogo stick if you're not a zombie build) is the name of the game, not debrading every limb one by one.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Wintersdark, on 08 October 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

This is grossly inaccurate.

(Wintersdark teaches class)


What you're seeing is largely new(ish) player Elo. What you describe practically never happens once players are skilled.

Point one, true.

Point two, true.

Point three, probably true (altho the lack of torso twist isn't so rare "upstairs" either I find)

[DamnCatte]

Everyone shoots for the core because it's the quickest point to destroy that will reliably kill someone, with the exception of headshots. Precision aiming in the game has certainly led to bizarre meta, like high elo players demanding every mech does the twist when in TT if you did that, you'd probably be laughed right out of your lance. Not saying it's god or bad to torso twist, just that it's conceptually weird.

As far as making it all one hitbox... why bother at that point? Though someone said it better than me I think; the curret hitbox division system or pinpoint accuracy has to go. (And on the note of people saying it's not pinpoint because travel time or whatever, odds are these are the same people who brag about being great shots or excellent at leading the target, which kinda makes the point moot to begin with.)

[Xanquil]

Gharland The Red, on 09 October 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Though someone said it better than me I think; the curret hitbox division system or pinpoint accuracy has to go. (And on the note of people saying it's not pinpoint because travel time or whatever, odds are these are the same people who brag about being great shots or excellent at leading the target, which kinda makes the point moot to begin with.)

Thanks, and good point. It just keeps bringing up the same question, who to make mad and who to make happy. Does PGI remove hit locations balancing combat more, but making MW:O into something other than a MechWarrior game? Or does PGI introduce a cone of fire, (just example) and make the "100% skill based" crowd angry?

[Pjwned]

Make it effective to do anything other than alpha the center torso and it might happen more often.

[Osric Lancaster]

There's already a thread on this issue with a well reasoned solution. Read it, it's good.

http://mwomercs.com/...xes-the-return/

[Sandpit]

there is a post on the forums that shows a very good rethinking of hitboxes. Simply resizing them and adjusting them so that the CT is slightly smaller and CT areas are spread out to the LT, RT, and legs really would make a huge difference. Some mechs just have big torsos though and are easier targets. It's one of the downsides of taking certain models. If you take away hitboxes and separate hit locations you really are just gutting the main battle mechanic of MechWarrior and Battletech. Having different locations is one of the core fundamentals of Btech

[Wintersdark]

Sandpit, on 13 October 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

there is a post on the forums that shows a very good rethinking of hitboxes. Simply resizing them and adjusting them so that the CT is slightly smaller and CT areas are spread out to the LT, RT, and legs really would make a huge difference. Some mechs just have big torsos though and are easier targets. It's one of the downsides of taking certain models. If you take away hitboxes and separate hit locations you really are just gutting the main battle mechanic of MechWarrior and Battletech. Having different locations is one of the core fundamentals of Btech

Yup. And those mechs with large torsos? Arms could be extended more into the torso, thus shrinking the side torso hitboxes - then you can carry that shrinkage into the CT (end result, maintaining LT/RT size, shrinking CT and increasing arms).

As to the overall concept of this thread... yeah, Sandpit has it. Hit locations are critical to Mechwarrior/Battletech. You can't take them away and have the same game at all. And, while perhaps you're in a small niche-elo bracket where that's a problem, it certainly isn't everywhere.

It's really not a problem, because it's entirely fixable via pilot skill. If it WERE a problem? You'd see a heck of a lot more XL engines in competitive builds, because there'd be no danger in taking them.

If you're getting centerpunched with no noteworthy damage elsewhere, it's not a game design problem, you just need to (excuse this) L2P.

[Chemistry Warden]

If I may add my two cents.

Offensively, aiming for the CT makes the most sense, unless the armor has been stripped somewhere else. If you explicitly shoot for say, an arm, not only are you shooting at one of the more mobile parts of the mech, but you're also shooting at the extreme edge of the mech, increasing the chances that you won't hit any part. If you shoot for the CT, then you are more likely to hit something, even if it's not the CT.

[stinkypuppy]

for 1 if we just had a single HP bar this would just be mech assault with available first person.

for 2 i usually don't go for CT in some cases. if i am against a atlas i'm going CT. if they are in a jagermech i'm going for their ST because they usually have XL's and its easier to kill there. if i'm in a light mech i like to support by trying to shoot off the arms of heavier mechs as i pass by, it can be useful when you destroy the arms of something that has a load out reliant on the arms like shooting a boars head and destroying 1 arm and removing 50% of his lasers.

[Wintersdark]

Never target Atlas arms. Aim inwards, take the side torso instead. Comparable armour, but the ST contains its own set OT weapons and will take the arm with it when it goes. From the Atlas' viewpoint, every shot that hits his arms is a shot against him wasted.

Even with the boars head, an arm is only a small part of his firepower, and its loss doesn't bring him any closer to death. Loss of the side torso means further damage to that side is transfered to his center torso (at 50%) which substantially speeds coring him

[Sandpit]

It's been my experience over the weekend that I rarely died by simply being cored out. I almost always had a side torso gone before my CT would get cored out. That's all while piloting either my spider or stalker. There are tons of strategies for certain mech. Most times I aim for side torsos on HB's because I can take those out faster than a CT and in the process take out main weapon system leaving them just about useless and concentrate on another mech that can still shoot back

[GoManGo]

I truly hate the fact the mechs in MWO are like a cardboard box and the weapons are like precision lasers they just shred the box I don't think the armor or hitboxes are strong enough!! mech longevity is terrible in this game. The reason you can stay alive in Hawken mechs even with the auto targeting weapons are maneuverability. MWO mechs except for lights are just slow walking target dummies with no real armor and hitboxes the size of barn doors.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Lukoi, on 08 October 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

OP I don't have your experience at all with this. I see plenty of side torsos get blown off and in the case of ammo dependent pita Mechs, I see them getting legged with more frequency as of late.

If you're running a build that's probably an XL, then I'm aiming side torso every time (usually right side unless you're in an AC20 dragon or something). People roll their torsos and in the Elo range I seem to be playing in, I see alot of people walking out with barely a piece of armor left on them. They use up all of their body before going down very often.

As for why people are going after CT....why not? Why leave you on the field alive to be a threat? Killing you quicker (or turn you into a pogo stick if you're not a zombie build) is the name of the game, not debrading every limb one by one.

see this is the point, there are more to mechs then CT's. in BT TT ONE DID NOT GET THE OPTION TO EXCLUSIVELY AIM ALL THEIR WEAPONS AT THE SAME POINT< A DIE ROLL DETERMINES HITS< SO ITS MOSTLY RANDOM AND NOT PINPOINT LIKE MWO. all to often i just see wam bam smackems, twisting your toso, moving, BS none of that "def" {Scrap} will stop me from blasting them in half with dual ac20's jags, 40 instant pinpoint damage more then enough to level any "small" mech and more then enough to destroy any mech from behind, in 1 shot. automatically makes more then half the mechs in this game obsolete, period. and that is a serious problem. how do you fight something that kills you instantly? that camps in groups? just like in COD? even with the defense twisting? ha I and many others will just shoot you in the back for an even easier kill and being dumb enough to NOT expose the heavy armor on your front. and even then its just a grind through that CT.

IT TAKES TO SHORT A TIME TO CORE ANY TORSO SLOT COMPARED TO TAKING OFF AN ARM. even with the atlas and its tons of arm and leg armor, it feels useless only my RS even has to worry about that (#*$#. and if i am getting legged the ONLY thing legging my atlases en mass are dual Gauss/dual ac20 builds. beause they can do it in 2 alphas? wtf? an atlas's mighty 80 leg armor or 100+ C-torso, is nothing compared to alpha pinpoint and being a target the size of a building, that has no speed to boot? all my atlas's have to kill them before they kill me, in the biggest mech in the game i feel all to often that im pushing that engine limit way lower then it should be JUST TO PACK SOME HEAT TO KEEP UP.

what the OP said is true there needs to be real incentives LIKE STRAIGHT double CT strength. its just to #@*#(#@* easy for the 40 damage pinpoints to school anything lacking a similar alpha. dont even think of piloting any mech heavier then a jag if you cant keep up with the firepower there is no real point when you get hit with 120+CT damage instantly from that 3+ man jag group, and honestly 1 jag shouldn't even be as powerful as it is. it makes it so every single mech heavier then IT has to be packing a 40+ pinpoint alpha, what is so hard to realize about this?

oh ya and what about mechs like the atlas and awesome that are just "barn yard doors"? how in the hell is my PB and other 2 awesomes even competitive? def twisting? moving fast? they curbed PB top speed for no reason at all and just #(*&$#*& it into the ground. nerfed pp'cs but gave nothing back to the awesomes to compensate at all, PB is little more then something "fun to run around in".


but ya the OP is totally correct with the current state of things we would see more balance if we dropped the different body parts altogether, what is the point in this arcade? sad cuz its supposed to be mechwarior, but in this mechwarrior ac2's make more heat then bigger guns? and ppc's and gauss are just ............WTH did you do pgi? the weapons are so *#$&*#$& up from overbalancing that PGI should just scrap it all and start again. BECAUSE HARDLY ANYONE PIECES MECHS APART AND EVEN IF YOU DO, YOUR GONNA LEG IT FIRST.

THIS MEANS ALL MATCHES WILL BECOME PREDICTABLE ALL BRAWLS WILL END UP THE SAME, NO VARIED TACTICS NOTHING, MECHS THAT KILL FAST ARE ALL THAT MATTERS EVEN IF IT NETS YOU LESS EXP AND CBILLS ALMOST EVERYONE STILL GOES FOR THE FAST KILL OVER A HIGHER REWARD. this is patently wrong and makes it so having other body locations or rewards for skill (piecing up an enemy as opposed to just killing him) are mostly just overlooked in favor of "kills"....... its a useless obsolete "feature" to have body parts when mostly your shooting for that CT or a leg anyway why not just have body/arms/legs and nothing else?

Edited by Mellifluer, 14 October 2013 - 09:51 AM.