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"oh My God! It's An Atlas!"


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#101 Alistair Winter

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:46 AM

View PostNRP, on 09 October 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Anyway I find the whole tone of this thread troubling. Some people seem to be suggesting that newbs shouldn't be allowed to pilot Assaults until they are somehow deemed "worthy", and furthermore that mediocre pilots be discouraged from driving "upper echelon" mechs through either an arduous skill grind or a draconian economic tax.
To me, it all smacks of thinly veiled elitism.

I'm very tempted to discuss my brand of elitism, and the particular brand of elitism that is prevalent in online games today, favouring those who either have loads of money in real life or those who are willing to devote excessive amount of time to playing. But that would probably result in 30 minutes and 10,000 words that would be better spent elsewhere.

Suffice it to say that your point about elitism is entirely misplaced. The whole point of my thread was that this sort of hierarchy actually benefits the small guys, light mech pilots such as myself, as much as it benefits the top dogs. Because it brings back something that most of today's computer games are missing - difficulty and fear. The more you punish players for dying, the more adrenaline they get from playing. That's why old games were often so engaging, because you couldn't just quick load if you messed up. You didn't respawn with all your gear intact.

That's why so many gamers and game developers are now returning to their roots, with games like Dark Souls, or playing Hardcore mode in Diablo, where you lose your character and its gear forever if you die. It's why people are taking games like Fallout 3 and creating new mods to make the wasteland as horrible as possible, making the enemies far tougher than in the original game, and adding new elements like radioactive rain and food poisoning. It's not to stroke their own egos, it's to give games a sense of danger, immersion, realism and importance that has been lost in modern games like MWO, where dying just means that you quit the match and start a new one ten seconds later.

View PostVodrin Thales, on 09 October 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Play more 12 mans. There are several teams that will put the fear of god back in you with their assault mech gunnery. Certain pilots in an Atlas are almost instant death for a light or medium pilot, and the highlanders and victors can be even worse because they will flat out one shot you.

I love that aspect of 12 mans, but it also means using team chat and listening to 12 people talk about football, beer and bacon, which kind of ruins my immersion. If MWO had voice commands like CS:S, I'd love to play 12-mans.

#102 Vodrin Thales

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:52 AM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 09 October 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:



I love that aspect of 12 mans, but it also means using team chat and listening to 12 people talk about football, beer and bacon, which kind of ruins my immersion. If MWO had voice commands like CS:S, I'd love to play 12-mans.


You are not running with the right units. My unit will BS about stuff like that in 4 mans, but 12 mans are a competitive event.

#103 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:55 AM

View PostVodrin Thales, on 09 October 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:


You are not running with the right units. My unit will BS about stuff like that in 4 mans, but 12 mans are a competitive event.


Same. 4-mans? We're full of booze and shooting the **** (literally and figuratively). 12-mans, we cut the chatter and have a plan (still drinking though)

#104 PlzDie

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:14 AM

View PostMarsAtlas, on 09 October 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Yeah, I'm not afraid of the Atlas. The only time I've been killed by one was when I was already running in critical condition, or when I was completely abandoned by my teammates (like what happened last match).

I get afraid when I see somebody pilot a Highlander, or Victor, or an AWS-9M, because the majority of the time, they at least have an idea of what they're doing, which seems to be more than what most Atlas pilots are like. Most Atlas pilots don't know their role.

Hey,@everyAtlasonmyteamonTerraThermaever, I'm supposed to be hiding behind you and your 100+ armour-plated CT, you're not supposed to be hiding me in my Blackjack that weights less than half of your mech. I have 450 rounds of AC2 ammo, and I''ll be glad to dispense it at the enemy once I'm sure I won't get hit by a forty point alpha from across the way.

The majority of Atlas pilots, in my experience, have no balls at all. No, not that "they're playing a strategy of self-preservation for later in the match", they just have no balls. I mean, come on, you're the toughest mech in the game, and you're afraid of one Jenner and a Hunchback when you have four teammates behind you, really?

If I run an Atlas in a 4 man or 12 man group I would agree with you that it is my job to take the punch and open the gate for my team to pour in.
In a pug match and I have the lone Atlas you can forget about me being in the front, I did that before many times with my trusty pug team right behind me, and when the poop hit the fan they either ran away or went of to chase the Jenner, leaving the Atlas that is to slow to disengage, to fight of the enemy team, and that there is the reason why any Atlas pilot today that have been running them for awhile will not be some random pug's shield even if he screams his head of.

You left us out to die too much we do not trust you anymore to back us up.

Edited by Duppie1974, 09 October 2013 - 10:19 AM.


#105 Wolfways

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:20 AM

View PostVodrin Thales, on 09 October 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

You need to understand because many of us are not seeing the same thing. In my pug drops more than 4 lights are rare, and 1-2 are common. We are just wondering why you are seeing so many more light mechs.

Well i'm not used to having to prove everything i say because others automatically assume i'm lying. But after reading this i thought screw it, i'll get some screenshots. I played a few matches and of course in every match there were only 2 or 3 lights per side. I'm starting to think there is a god and the ****** hates me :)
I'll try again tomorrow.

#106 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:34 AM

I just watched the original teaser trailer and the "OH SHHHITTTITTT" ATLAS moment

Sigh, sad tear

#107 Escef

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:39 AM

View PostTom Sawyer, on 09 October 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

I just watched the original teaser trailer and the "OH SHHHITTTITTT" ATLAS moment

Sigh, sad tear

To be fair, in that circumstance it would be an "oh, {Scrap}" moment. The Warhammer is mostly a long range support mech with modest speed and lack-luster armor, and he just found himself toe-to-toe with the premier brawler mech, and no back-up near.

#108 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:41 AM

Escef:



Still one of my favorite OH SHIIIITTTTTT moment

#109 Finn McShae

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:42 AM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 08 October 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

Like, if you've ever played Mass Effect 3 multiplayer, then you probably remember the feeling of being all alone, your team dead and dying, and then you hear the spine-tingling scream of a Banshee spawning nearby.


Nailed it. Especially when you were low on ammo/grenades. Fear inducing.

As for MWO, maybe we'll get that with the clans. Running TT vs an Atlas if I had any terrain, jump jets, or anything running over 6/4 wasn't hard to get onto the Atlas' tail and only have to worry about a few medium lasers.

Things like Warhawks were terrifying. Even if you managed to get behind em, that was still two ERPPCs to the face, and that's not fun in any game.

#110 LauLiao

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:57 AM

View Postfocuspark, on 08 October 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

Atlas is just a really big mech. This is a multiplayer first-person-shooter, not a novel. Mechs are only (or should be) as scary as their pilots are skillful; and there's no way to know a player's skill until they've killed you.


These days you just look for the little (C) after their mech and you know you have nothing to fear :)

#111 Soda Popinsky

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:22 PM

Thread automatically made me think of the 3025 trailer.



Watching it again, I was asking myself, why the Atlas wasn't using the arm mounted weapons. Maybe it was running PPCs...

Edited by Soda Popinsky, 09 October 2013 - 12:26 PM.


#112 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:35 PM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 08 October 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Do you ever miss that feeling of dread when you see the most deadly battlemechs in the BT universe? Like that feeling when you're playing Doom 2 and you run into a Cyberdemon and all you can think is "Ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod, don't panic, don't panic, don't panic! Fear is the mindkiller!"

Even in WoW, I remember a slightly raised heart beat during the early days, when the game was still new and you ran into an enemy player with epic PvP gear and some kind of fearsome PvP title.

In MWO, there's none of that. You'll see a team with 7 assault mechs and they'll probably still only do 200 damage each. Two of them are stock green Champion mechs, running around shooting randomly at buildings and trees. The guy that ends up doing top damage is a Spider with a PPC.

Of course, I'm a big advocate of equally powerful mech classes, as long as everyone is free to choose any mech without consequences. You'll often see me on the forum, arguing that light mechs and medium mechs need a buff. But in my heart of hearts, I wish certain assault mechs were just death incarnate, to the point where a whole team would panic at the mere sight of them. And I'm not just talking about assault mechs being powerful, but also the sense of dread when you know that they are probably piloted by some of the best pilots in the game.

We'll still have that with CW, I guess. Some merc companies will get a reputation for their skill. And anyone who's a member of the Wolf's Dragoons is going to be a big deal. But I still want to bump into an Atlas on the battlefield and just gasp "MY GOD!"

TL;DR - Blah, blah, nostalgia. Games were so much better when I was young. Since Wolfenstein, FPS games just aren't what they used to be.

All mechs should be equally essential in their role. That does not mean that a Scout Mech should be able to go toe to toe with an Atlas with only needing to run in circles for tactics. To have ANY chance, a Light Mech should either need to bring friends (the classic using 3 Locust to course larger mechs) or some REAL savvy tactics and hit and fade warfare.

Instead, we have an Atlas that is a lumbering brute able to level anything in front of it, but that's just ***, it's so slow and clumsy, very little actually stays in front of it. So we get a single Spider with a large laser and MGs, running around it's feet with impunity, especially since half the time, directs hits don't register, and those that do, don't transfer correctly. (I think, but am not sure, this is partially how the damage mechanic and hit thing work in conjunction. It seems, at least, that if I nail a spider from the side, with 2 AC20 at once, like it counts it as a 40 pt single strike, not 2 strikes for 20. In other words, almost half the damage gets wasted in transfer, instead of the first shot tearing off the arm, then transferring the remaining halved damage, and the second shot hitting the torso directly, if that makes sense).

Simply put, a solo spider, against a fresh solo Atlas, should need to be a significantly better pilot than the Atlas to win. Right now it seems just the obvious, with the Atlas having a higher learning curve to actually be effective, and almost any ***** able to run in circles in a Spider.

If 20-35 ton mechs were supposed to be just as effective prime battlers as Heavies and Assaults, no one would build and field the larger mechs, as they are vastly more expensive and much more tactically limited in speed and mobility. And that's the issue I see, the balance FPS crowd want to be able to take a Scout and go toe to toe with an Assault unit. That is simply nonsense. One does not take a solitary Corvette against a Battleship and live to tell about it, and that is the Combat difference in this analogy. The Assaults are supposed to be the single most effective, but least versatile killing machines, with each class below being more versatile, but less inherently destructive.

We do not see this, and thus, I see an Atlas or a Spider in my Boom Jager, I'll go hunt the Atlas every single time. Even when I hit the Spider, half the time it doesn't register, whereas I can ambush and blow that Atlas to kingdom come. Think about that. Does it REALLY sound right and "balanced" when one would rather face off against a 12 Million Cbill "Avatar of Destruction" than a lowly 1.5 million Cbill scout?

We need reasons to WANT to use all units. We need reasons for Scouts to actually IDK, go Scout something? Lase for Missiles and Artillery, disrupt the rear? Assaults should be dreaded when they arrive, but due to their low speed should be such that one usually does NOT use them due to their slow speed and versatility. Most of the toe to toe battles should be done by the Mediums and Heavies because of their very versatility (and affordability). We currently have none of this, as even in the 12 man ques few people have any incentive for the "role warfare" touted at inception, and instead, Lights are just wolfpack hunters, and it all still devolves to cap races or furballs, with little in between.

Anyone else miss those Missions in MW2, 3 and 4, where you had to escort something, so you needed to be able to do a certain minimum speed, but still needed enough fire power to fight what you found, so you were by mission parameters FORCED into a Medium or Heavy? Or the fast recon missions where you needed to avoid detection, so an ECM scout was the only sensible choice? Or when you knew you were defending an important Objective from an all out Assault, so you brought the biggest guns possible, period?
(Though I liked the split assault mission in MW4 Mercs, where you face attackers at the factory, then another unit far to the North, then have to be able to get BACK to the Factory in time to face off two waves of Assault Mechs. So you needed tons of firepower, but could not afford to be slow)

The laack of mission with those parameters is part of why the roles are so non existent in this game.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 October 2013 - 12:43 PM.


#113 IllCaesar

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:37 PM

View PostSoda Popinsky, on 09 October 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Thread automatically made me think of the 3025 trailer.



Watching it again, I was asking myself, why the Atlas wasn't using the arm mounted weapons. Maybe it was running PPCs...


I miss core explosions. Kills are so unsatisfying in MWO.

Also, Kurita, damn you!

Edited by MarsAtlas, 09 October 2013 - 01:46 PM.


#114 KingCobra

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:51 PM

First you have to understand PGI will nerf anything a mech armor weapons heat to try and balance the game. A atlas was feared because of it huge weapons payload but above all its defensive capability's and its huge amount of armor. And those that fought in them were very seasoned vets according to lore. But PGI has nerfed the armor and hitboxes to favor other mechs over the atlas. If you were to say a atlas represents the most armor at say 18-18.5Tons then it should scale down from there to the smallest light mech. Also the hitboxes should be small to reflect the atlas overwhelming hit and damage resistance to most weapons.Plus it defensive electronic equipment yes it should be tough. But PGI has made it and most assault/heavies and mediums little paper dolls that take no damage and please the I want a instant kill now crowd. Specs-->
The Atlas is included in MechWarrior 4: Vengeance and both its expansions.
Statistics
  • Firepower: [color=green]80[/color]
  • Armour: [color=green]90[/color]
  • Speed: [color=red]33[/color]
  • Heat efficiency: [color=yellow]62[/color]
  • Relative heat efficiency: [color=yellow]44[/color]
  • 'Mech value: 13,557,426 C-Bills
Chassis
  • Components: AMS (Vengeance)/ECM, LAMS, IFF jammer (Mercenaries)
  • Heat sinks: 3 (Vengeance)/12 (Mercenaries)
  • Engine upgrade: 57.02 km/h
Weapons
  • 1 x medium laser (Vengeance)
  • 3 x small laser
  • 1 x small pulse laser (Vengeance)
  • 2 x PPC
  • 1 x LRM15 [240] (Mercenaries)
  • 2 x LRM10 [240] (Vengeance)
  • 1 x RL20 [20] (Mercenaries)
  • 1 x gauss rifle [48]
Armour
  • Type: Ferro fibrous
  • Total: 18.00 tonnes (Vengeance)/18.50 tonnes (Mercenaries) Posted Image


#115 IllCaesar

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:01 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 09 October 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Anyone else miss those Missions in MW2, 3 and 4, where you had to escort something, so you needed to be able to do a certain minimum speed, but still needed enough fire power to fight what you found, so you were by mission parameters FORCED into a Medium or Heavy? Or the fast recon missions where you needed to avoid detection, so an ECM scout was the only sensible choice? Or when you knew you were defending an important Objective from an all out Assault, so you brought the biggest guns possible, period?
(Though I liked the split assault mission in MW4 Mercs, where you face attackers at the factory, then another unit far to the North, then have to be able to get BACK to the Factory in time to face off two waves of Assault Mechs. So you needed tons of firepower, but could not afford to be slow)


I think PGI has a bit of a solution for this in the Attack/Defend game mode, although I could be reading too much into it. I read the information and connected the dots that you would alternate taking turns attacking and defending, best out of three wins. So lets say a five minute round, alternating sides, and you cannot change what mech you use in each round - you use the same mech for all rounds. An Atlas would be great for defense, but when it comes time to go on the offensive, you're probably ripely ******. A Commando might find some use as a scout for offense, but when you goal is to defend a static objective, you're not going to be as effective as in a larger mech. You would need enough speed to play offense and enough firepower to play defense. Sounds like it'd be a prime game mode for mechs like the Centurion, Blackjack, Quickdraw, and Awesome.

#116 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:11 PM

View PostMarsAtlas, on 09 October 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:


I think PGI has a bit of a solution for this in the Attack/Defend game mode, although I could be reading too much into it. I read the information and connected the dots that you would alternate taking turns attacking and defending, best out of three wins. So lets say a five minute round, alternating sides, and you cannot change what mech you use in each round - you use the same mech for all rounds. An Atlas would be great for defense, but when it comes time to go on the offensive, you're probably ripely ******. A Commando might find some use as a scout for offense, but when you goal is to defend a static objective, you're not going to be as effective as in a larger mech. You would need enough speed to play offense and enough firepower to play defense. Sounds like it'd be a prime game mode for mechs like the Centurion, Blackjack, Quickdraw, and Awesome.

and a reason mechs like the Victor and Zeus were so valued, Assaults that were fast enough to provide some tactical flexibility (the Zeus augmenting that with great long range punch, the Victor with the extra JJ mobility)

#117 Escef

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:22 PM

Atlas's armor nerfed? Holy {Scrap}, get off the drugs, son. Hell PGI had to buff armor in closed beta because mechs were dieing too fast.

#118 KingCobra

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:38 PM

View PostEscef, on 09 October 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Atlas's armor nerfed? Holy {Scrap}, get off the drugs, son. Hell PGI had to buff armor in closed beta because mechs were dieing too fast.


HAHA if you believe PGI really doubled the armor except on paper your crazy.PGI did not double armor in real game play maybe you should try some drugs. After extensive testing the mechs die just as fast now as they did in closed beta. Plus they increased the weapons damage and left the armor the same which is resulting in shortened mech life per battle and a lot of 1-2 shot kills. Hitboxes? ow ya lets make them the size of a barn then a few small-medium lasers can kill a atlas. Go figure your thinking and PGI's.

Edited by KingCobra, 09 October 2013 - 01:57 PM.


#119 Xeno Phalcon

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:44 PM

Only time I go AH SNAP ITS AN ATLAS is when its near the end of the match, im all torn up and I discover the last guy on the enemy team was a super slow atlas that was so far behind the fight hes virtually untouched.


Other atlas are sorta like this guy (Warning: cussin!):



#120 Escef

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:58 PM

View PostKingCobra, on 09 October 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:


HAHA if you believe PGI really doubled the armor except on paper and not in real game play maybe you should try some drugs. After extensive testing the mechs die just as fast now as they did in closed beta. Plus they increased the weapons damage and left the armor the same which is resulting in shortened mech life per battle and a lot of 1-2 shot kills. Hitboxes? ow ya lets make them the size of a barn then a few small-medium lasers can kill a atlas. Go figure your thinking and PGI's.

Ok, tell me how you can strip all of the armor off of a mechs head with a single AC10 shot. Post video, I want to see it. Armor values were doubled. Period. Statement ends. If you don't believe that than perhaps you should take some time away to figure out why you're so very, very wrong.





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