144 replies to this topic

[Mycrus]

Atlai aren't scary because most don't know how to pilot them...

In my tdk - imma only scared of streak boats... Rest are kibble... My favorite food are stalker side torsos...

[Misadventure]

I respect most of the Mechs in the game as they can kill you easy enough.

The only thing that causes me any real fear is seeing a pack of lights. I am primarily a light pilot so I know about limitations and such, one wrong move and and I go from a hated harasser to Smokey and dead. I have spent much time learning how quickly you can die and what it take to try and stay alive.

A lone light is annoying but usually manageable, a pack of organized lights it totally lethal, and very hard to kill.

The last match I played I was the sole light on my team; the enemy had 3 raven and 2 Jenner. My team decimated the enemies med, heavy and assaults, I think with 3 dead. The lights wiped the rest of the team and still had 3 up.

As much firepower as the other Mechs have, and as quickly as they can lay waist to something its not really anything to fear as you can always try and give as good as you get. Out numbering the enemy lights and knowing you’re going to likely lose while not being able to fight back, thats something to fear.

That does not usually apply to pug light pack though, while still annoying they can usually be killed.

[Krivvan]

Misadventure, on 09 October 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

I respect most of the Mechs in the game as they can kill you easy enough.

The only thing that causes me any real fear is seeing a pack of lights. I am primarily a light pilot so I know about limitations and such, one wrong move and and I go from a hated harasser to Smokey and dead. I have spent much time learning how quickly you can die and what it take to try and stay alive.

The two things I fear as a light pilot are very good snipers that only need a short moment to take a shot at you, and a pack of lights with good pilots that I may have been able to take 1v1, but am screwed in a 3v1 with.

The reason I fear those two situations are because they negate the light's greatest combat advantage: the ability to disengage from a situation when you realize that it is not in your favour.

Edited by Krivvan, 09 October 2013 - 01:58 AM.

[FinsT]

Eddrick, on 09 October 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

For me, it's quite the other way around. I would rather face an Atlas then any Light Mech. Light Mechs, are currently my Bane. I tend to Pilot Mech ranging from the heavy end of the Medium Weight Class to the Light end of the Assault Class. I can generally, out run and out maneuver an Assault Mech. But, Light Mechs, beat me at my own game.

Jager pilot here (well, mostly). Your "league". Indeeds, lights are one of most significant problems for our weight class. And should be. Well, AC20 and SSRMs (especially if together) are my current "answer" to lights. Yes, sometimes good lights beat all the {Scrap} out of us (when in packs), but man, is it satisfying to blow their brains out with a one well placed AC20 shot!

And on subject - Atlases. True, oh so many of them are not so good pilots. However, some few are decent. And then it's a big (literally, too) problem. Good Atlas pilot "eats" a heavy in two alphas - in 4 seconds or so. I've met two or three of those during last two weeks. There is no time to even realize they are good: 1st big hit, you think "oh @#$%, lucky *******, i gotta be careful now", and 2-3 seconds later, you're dead.

Something like dual ER PPCs plus AC/20 plus a bunch of SRMs all happily melting torsi armor and internals - is some good Atlas' signature, and it's properly scary one alright. ^^

So what can be done to bring back the reputation to Atlas family? Obviously, the problem is that heaviest chassis in the game is being piloted by people who are poor pilots. Therefore, we need to remove poor pilots from being able to pilot Atlases. Unfortunately, it sounds practically impossible - lots and lots of such pilots already paid for their atlases, c-bills and MC both. Can't get 'em away.

And yep, i also hope that faction warfare will add some way(s?) to distinct between a usual "pile of components to break to earn extra c-bills from" and those few properly deadly pilots who know how to setup and drive their ultimate machine of death.

[Karl Streiger]

Leifur did a suggestion that may help to make assaults for poor pilots less attractive:

http://mwomercs.com/...chs-in-battles/

Another fact is that a Mech behave much better when you have the Elite Skill full... funny - have a HGN with no skills and made almost the same armament like on my fav Atlas - and it sucked... hard.

With the above suggestion, it would last much more time to skill that Highlander... but on the other hand - its called trial and error - eh?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 09 October 2013 - 02:17 AM.

[Nryrony]

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

In MWO, there's none of that. You'll see a team with 7 assault mechs and they'll probably still only do 200 damage each. Two of them are stock green Champion mechs, running around shooting randomly at buildings and trees. The guy that ends up doing top damage is a Spider with a PPC.

If a Spider with 1 PPC does more dmg then any kind of Assault mech it doesn't need a mastermind to figure out that the mech isn't the problem...

[Joseph Mallan]

Alistair funny thing is on my table the scariest thing was me... in a stock Blackjack. There is just something about AC2s my dice loves to roll Center Torso crits. I could have a Thunder Hawk, Devastator, and a Stone Rhino(My build) and everyone will try to kill the Blackjack first!!!

[stjobe]

I agree that the Atlas should be a scary 'mech, but it shouldn't be because it's 100 ton of stomping hot metal death, it should be because anyone piloting one would be an elite Mechwarrior (according to lore, anyway), and more importantly because it mounts some seriously scary weaponry, and the armour to put it to good use.

With our double armour our weaponry is anaemic at best, so the AC/20 isn't the fearsome 'mech killer it should be, and any Curly, Moe, or Larry can hop into an Atlas and totally not be a factor on the battlefield.

But like Krivvan I adjust by piloting light 'mechs, where any mistake is likely to be your last. Taking on a fresh Atlas is generally a challenge - and may be that last mistake if the pilot is even remotely competent - and I can get a nice pulse going while trying to nail his rear side torso with my pew-pew lasers.

Edited by stjobe, 09 October 2013 - 03:32 AM.

[Veranova]

FupDup, on 08 October 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

A big part of it is because there's just so many of them everywhere. Assaults here are practically standard infantry around here in MWO.

This.

I think things will change once weight limits come in. Atlas' will become a much rarer occurrence, and the majority of players will be Mediums, making the Atlas a far more deadly mech, relatively speaking.

The game will balance out to this, it's just a matter of time.

[Karl Streiger]

stjobe, on 09 October 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

But like Krivvan I adjust by piloting light 'mechs, where any mistake is likely to be your last. Taking on a fresh Atlas is generally a challenge - and may be that last mistake if the pilot is even remotely competent - and I can get a nice pulse going while trying to nail his rear side torso with my pew-pew lasers.

Well - when attacked by lights - i usually try to ignore them and shot for the targets - i can kill in a fraction of time (like other Atlas or Katapults or Catapracts) and sometimes some people of my team see my problem - and inflict more damage on the light - but chances are even - that they don't react - harass assaults on their own - or when they try to shot for the light they hit me.

So please fellow Atlas Pilots - even when 2 Spiders circle arround you...they need the same time to rip your mech to pieces as you need to kill that Catapract and nail that Stalker

[Krivvan]

It's true that between two good comparable pilots, a light mech will likely lose to an assault mech.

That doesn't mean that the light mech isn't just as valuable as the assault mech though. The absolute biggest combat advantage of a light mech is the ability to have the choice to disengage. If the light mech realizes that the assault mech has a chance at killing it, it just has to leave and wait for that assault mech to be busy with something else.

The light mech requires the rest of its team alive to do its true damage, but at the same time it's also a lot more flexible than heavier mechs. Light mech pilots tend to switch between phases/modes depending on the situation. They can strafe and do skirmishing runs, they can get right into the brawl if the rest of their team is engaged in one, they can go cap or defend a cap quickly, and they can spot enemy movement and positions in the early game. The assault mechs are mostly the stable power base that constantly has to think about their position. Light mechs can just take a quick trip to the other side of the map without the potential for it to be a gigantic mistake.

Of course that mostly applies for more organized games. In a typical pug game light mechs do the same roles, but it's a lot fuzzier. They can still do massive damage potential and can take on assaults and heavies that are either damaged, not as capable of hitting a light mech, or are otherwise engaged with the rest of the light's team.

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

Want to get scared when you face a mech? Pilot a lightwithout ecm, when you see a 5ssrm kintaro you **** your pants and run.

[Alistair Winter]

Well, there used to be a good solution that made the best and most expensive mechs less attractive for unskilled players. Repair & rearm...

Actually, I'm not sure tonnage limits will do anything to elevate the status of assault mechs. If each lance has a 200 ton limit, then seeing an Atlas just means the other 3 mechs in that lance will be that much lighter. Which is the same thing with TT games, whether it's BT or Warhammer. Someone brings the most expensive unit in the game, the rest of their army will be useless.

I suppose this is one of the many reasons I want a hardcore mode where you can actually lose mechs when they're destroyed. Because only the baddest mofos in town would have earned an assault mech. A man can dream.

[Joseph Mallan]

Shut Up. You know R&R are vulgar words on this forum!

[Krivvan]

18 Inches of Hard Steel, on 09 October 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Want to get scared when you face a mech? Pilot a lightwithout ecm, when you see a 5ssrm kintaro you **** your pants and run.

In a light pack with AMS you can take down multiple streak Kintaros with no problem.

It's for the same reason that light packs are deadly in general. The opponent can only really focus on one opponent at a time. Whichever member of the lance is being targeted will proceed to temporarily disengage and take cover. The opponent will switch targets, and that target will also take cover. This in turn basically exposes that opponent to rear and leg damage and basically does what a light standing behind a bad assault mech does, but doesn't require the opponent to be slow and bad.

[Hanz Blitzer]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 08 October 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

Someone needs to play more medium mechs. They are the perfect combination of slow, under armored, and undergunned, to make Assault mechs scary again.

I play about half of my matches in a medium mech. I routinely experience that moment of shock and awe when I turn a corner and run into an atlas. While I fear and respect other assault mechs, the atlas is just intimidating at close range in a medium. It does not need speed and maneuverability at that range.

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

Krivvan, on 09 October 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

In a light pack with AMS you can take down multiple streak Kintaros with no problem.

It's for the same reason that light packs are deadly in general. The opponent can only really focus on one opponent at a time. Whichever member of the lance is being targeted will proceed to temporarily disengage and take cover. The opponent will switch targets, and that target will also take cover. This in turn basically exposes that opponent to rear and leg damage and basically does what a light standing behind a bad assault mech does, but doesn't require the opponent to be slow and bad.

of course if you outnumber a target it wont be scary. pugging now your likely to be the only light on your team...

[AlmightyAeng]

The other part of being scary is suprise. With seismic sensor, there's no surprise. You might not know what 'mech it is, but you know it's there, you're expecting it.

I remember BEFORE seismic sensor, rounding a corner and findign an atlas looking at me (still with the red eyes). THAT was a scary cool feeling.

Bring back my glowing red eyes, and make seismic less useful (it's nearly as required as ECM used to be).

[Blacksoul1987]

Krivvan, on 09 October 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

In a light pack with AMS you can take down multiple streak Kintaros with no problem.

It's for the same reason that light packs are deadly in general. The opponent can only really focus on one opponent at a time. Whichever member of the lance is being targeted will proceed to temporarily disengage and take cover. The opponent will switch targets, and that target will also take cover. This in turn basically exposes that opponent to rear and leg damage and basically does what a light standing behind a bad assault mech does, but doesn't require the opponent to be slow and bad.

Krivvan finally someone that understands the pontential of lights! when I run a Jenner if I am lucky to have 3 or more ally lights with ECM and such we devastate most of my 12-0 games have been running in a large light pack consisting of well equipped spiders ravens and jenners. I've had sweeping games using assaults too but I think my only flawless victories were running with light packs.

[stjobe]

Krivvan, on 09 October 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

It's for the same reason that light packs are deadly in general. The opponent can only really focus on one opponent at a time. Whichever member of the lance is being targeted will proceed to temporarily disengage and take cover. The opponent will switch targets, and that target will also take cover. This in turn basically exposes that opponent to rear and leg damage and basically does what a light standing behind a bad assault mech does, but doesn't require the opponent to be slow and bad.

FTFY, lights are no more nor any less deadly in packs than other 'mechs.