Hellwolf
Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Mixed
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 30,624,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 3,412
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h (43.2 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h (64.8 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
10 (CL) Streak SRM-6s
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
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Equipment Type Rating Mass
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Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 152 points 5.00
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 2 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Engine: XL Engine 300 9.50
Walking MP: 3 (4)
Running MP: 5 (6)
Jumping MP: 5 Improved
Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL 20.00
Heat Sinks: (CL) Double Heat Sink 12(24) 2.00
Gyro: (A) Compact 5.50
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
TSM Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 304 19.00
CASE Locations: LT, RT, LA, RA 0.00
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 48
Center Torso (rear) 13
L/R Torso 21 31
L/R Torso (rear) 11
L/R Arm 17 33
L/R Leg 21 42
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
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2 (CL) Streak SRM-6s RT 8 4 6.00
2 (CL) Streak SRM-6s LT 8 4 6.00
3 (CL) Streak SRM-6s RA 12 6 9.00
3 (CL) Streak SRM-6s LA 12 6 9.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15) RT - 1 1.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15) LT - 1 1.00
@Streak SRM-6 (30) RA - 2 2.00
@Streak SRM-6 (30) LA - 2 2.00
Free Critical Slots: 0
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 34
3/5j 8 8 0 0 4 4 Structure: 5
Special Abilities: TSM, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
Like most of my designs this one is pretty straight-forward. Basically, anything slower then it is toast. You aim at a Daishi= no more Daishi. You aim it at a Hunchback= no more hunchback.
What I particularly like about this design is the sheer volume of firepower. 120 damage is enough to severely injure even a drop ship. A Star of these Mechs could perhaps injure even the largest drop ship in a very short amount of time.
Another cool thing, from the Clan perspective is that it helps negate the Inner Sphere tactic of fighting in areas which reduce the effectiveness of Clan's superior range. IS Mechs/Vehicles hide in an area where range is less effective, Hellwolf jumps in, Mechs die or get flushed out.
Weaknesses:
If the enemy loads up on a ton of Anti-Missile Systems, I mean a heck of a lot, that could ruin the h-wolve's day, but then again that Mech will be weakening itself against other targets.
The enemy outnumbers the h-wolf in very asymmetric numbers. Then again, I don't know many designs that can win against overwhelming numbers.
The enemy is using superior range weapons in an open area with a faster Mech where they have perfectly uninhibited movement and LOS.
I guess no design is perfect, but the h-wolf can do what it is supposed to pretty well: Counter a slower Mech or heavy vehicle with relative ease, and even play heck on a base or dropship if it gets close enough, and/or flush out an entrenched enemy trying to use cowardly dezgra tactic against the Clan's hard won technological advantage.
In any case, who would want a Star of these in their Cluster or Galaxy? Even one of these suckers coming out to surprise the enemy in a close fight can easily turn the tide. Also a 40 point kick ain't too shabby.
0
Hellwolf
Started by PaintedWolf, Oct 08 2013 06:42 PM
7 replies to this topic
#2
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- Philanthropist
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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:54 PM
for just one of those i can get 334 of these. and without a targeting computer, i would really like to see you hit one.
alternatively, i will take a pair of demolishers over it. yeah, you might savage them. but that thing can't take 4 ac/20s without an issue.
On a side note, you might want to drop a couple of the srms for some more ammo. you have 9 alphas on that thing before it runs out of ammo. that is rather slim.
to put it in a less hostile way, the sheer cost of that thing makes it impractical. Especially when you could get an entire company or more of light mechs for the price. it might be a nasty city fighter. But you literally couldn't afford to lose one due to its price. it costs as much as 20 locusts.
Spoiler
alternatively, i will take a pair of demolishers over it. yeah, you might savage them. but that thing can't take 4 ac/20s without an issue.
On a side note, you might want to drop a couple of the srms for some more ammo. you have 9 alphas on that thing before it runs out of ammo. that is rather slim.
to put it in a less hostile way, the sheer cost of that thing makes it impractical. Especially when you could get an entire company or more of light mechs for the price. it might be a nasty city fighter. But you literally couldn't afford to lose one due to its price. it costs as much as 20 locusts.
Edited by dal10, 08 October 2013 - 07:58 PM.
#3
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- The Devoted
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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:57 PM
Maybe, but good luck finding enough DropShips and Jumpships to carry all of them. Also, C-Bills does not necessarily equate to materials. Remember the Clans pursued protomechs not out of concerns for c-bill cost, but because they used 1/10th of the ore and Smoke Jaguars were rapidly depleting their supply of metals.
As for the Alphas and ammo- those are streak missiles, meaning no ammo is wasted. By contrast the canon King Crab has a mere 5 shots with its primary weapon, and can waste heat or ammo.
Cost? The 3145 Timber Wolf 4 uses a 375 XXL Engine- that's 70 million c-bills at least more then twice what my Mech costs, and that is a canon unit and nowhere in the Tech Readout does it say cost is prohibitive.
In any case, there is probably a reason why they use Assault Mechs instead of just creating 300 Savannah Masters don't you think?
Yes and the Timber Wolf 4 by the same standards is over 60 Locusts. The Daishi (29 million C-bills) is 18 Locusts.
Again you are not considering:
1- Dropships and Jumpships are needed to transport Mechs and vehicles. It does little good to have dozens of vees or Mechs if you cannot move them.
2- C-bills does not automatically translate to materials and production. There is a reason Assault Mechs are produced instead of just 18 Locusts or 200 Savannah Masters. According to you Assault Mechs should never be produced.
3- Logistics and labor- 30 Locusts requires 30 Mechwarriors.
You also said this Mech is only useful for city fighting....okay what about forests? What about mountanous terrain?
What about Mechs that are slower and cannot run away? What about if they wait behind the first row of Mechs and leap out when the enemy gets close? What if it is hot dropped?
In any case it is pretty obvious that you are committing the fallacy of slanting the evidence: http://www.fallacyfi...g/onesided.html
http://abyss.uoregon.../fallacies.html
For example, you argue my Mech at 30 million c-bills is not practical because it costs 20 Locusts and/or 300 Savannah Masters.
You omit the fact that a Daishi at 29 million c-bills is about 18 Locusts and/or 280 Savnnah Masters. You omit the fact that the canon Mad Cat 4 is 70 million c-bills: meaning 50 Locusts and 600 Savannah Masters.
You are thus presenting all negative economic aspects of my Mech out of context, when many of your criticisms would apply to multiple canon designs.
I suppose next we will hear the fallacy of Special Pleading:
http://abyss.uoregon.../fallacies.html
"Your Mech is Cost-Prohibitive for this Special Reason while the canon designs which cost almost as much or twice as much are not for X-Special Reason. "
BTW don't even say it is because my Mech is not an Omni, the Grand Titan is not an Omni and costs 29 million c-bills. Don't say it is because it is a short-range specalist- both the Atlas and King Crab are short range specialist at 100 tons, and many variants do sport XL Engines making them about as expensive. They do have some long-range weapons, but have half as much ammo for their primary, do way, way less damage and are much, much slower.
As for the Alphas and ammo- those are streak missiles, meaning no ammo is wasted. By contrast the canon King Crab has a mere 5 shots with its primary weapon, and can waste heat or ammo.
Cost? The 3145 Timber Wolf 4 uses a 375 XXL Engine- that's 70 million c-bills at least more then twice what my Mech costs, and that is a canon unit and nowhere in the Tech Readout does it say cost is prohibitive.
In any case, there is probably a reason why they use Assault Mechs instead of just creating 300 Savannah Masters don't you think?
Quote
it might be a nasty city fighter. But you literally couldn't afford to lose one due to its price. it costs as much as 20 locusts.
Yes and the Timber Wolf 4 by the same standards is over 60 Locusts. The Daishi (29 million C-bills) is 18 Locusts.
Again you are not considering:
1- Dropships and Jumpships are needed to transport Mechs and vehicles. It does little good to have dozens of vees or Mechs if you cannot move them.
2- C-bills does not automatically translate to materials and production. There is a reason Assault Mechs are produced instead of just 18 Locusts or 200 Savannah Masters. According to you Assault Mechs should never be produced.
3- Logistics and labor- 30 Locusts requires 30 Mechwarriors.
You also said this Mech is only useful for city fighting....okay what about forests? What about mountanous terrain?
What about Mechs that are slower and cannot run away? What about if they wait behind the first row of Mechs and leap out when the enemy gets close? What if it is hot dropped?
In any case it is pretty obvious that you are committing the fallacy of slanting the evidence: http://www.fallacyfi...g/onesided.html
Quote
32. Fallacy of slanting. Deliberately omitting, deemphasizing, or overemphasizing certain points to the exclusion of others in order to hide evidence that is important and relevant to the conclusion of the argument and that should be taken into accoun of in an argument.
http://abyss.uoregon.../fallacies.html
For example, you argue my Mech at 30 million c-bills is not practical because it costs 20 Locusts and/or 300 Savannah Masters.
You omit the fact that a Daishi at 29 million c-bills is about 18 Locusts and/or 280 Savnnah Masters. You omit the fact that the canon Mad Cat 4 is 70 million c-bills: meaning 50 Locusts and 600 Savannah Masters.
You are thus presenting all negative economic aspects of my Mech out of context, when many of your criticisms would apply to multiple canon designs.
I suppose next we will hear the fallacy of Special Pleading:
Quote
33. Fallacy of special pleading. (a) Accepting an idea or criticism when applied to an opponent's argument but rejecting it when applied to one's own argument. ( 
rejecting an idea or criticism when applied to an opponent's argument but accepting it when applied to one's own.
rejecting an idea or criticism when applied to an opponent's argument but accepting it when applied to one's own.http://abyss.uoregon.../fallacies.html
"Your Mech is Cost-Prohibitive for this Special Reason while the canon designs which cost almost as much or twice as much are not for X-Special Reason. "
BTW don't even say it is because my Mech is not an Omni, the Grand Titan is not an Omni and costs 29 million c-bills. Don't say it is because it is a short-range specalist- both the Atlas and King Crab are short range specialist at 100 tons, and many variants do sport XL Engines making them about as expensive. They do have some long-range weapons, but have half as much ammo for their primary, do way, way less damage and are much, much slower.
Edited by PaintedWolf, 08 October 2013 - 09:03 PM.
#4
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- Wrath
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Member
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Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:53 PM
It's all or nothing - a mech with reactive armor or ferro lammelor and ECM or Nova CWS will ruin you day when combined with a single large weapon.
To use clan tech in that way is simple wrong - the only advantage you really have is range - go into short range vs IS Assaults means death.
BTW: you have this Mech i have this one
15 shots with -1 hit modifer - at range 0
may result in up to 210 hits - only because i looked for costs and survivability.
If i don't give a damn about costs - and a single charge is suicide...i can place up to 20 M-Pods on a Mech (you don't need more)
To use clan tech in that way is simple wrong - the only advantage you really have is range - go into short range vs IS Assaults means death.
BTW: you have this Mech i have this one
15 shots with -1 hit modifer - at range 0
may result in up to 210 hits - only because i looked for costs and survivability.
If i don't give a damn about costs - and a single charge is suicide...i can place up to 20 M-Pods on a Mech (you don't need more)
Spoiler
#6
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- Legendary Founder
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Member
- LocationToronto
Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:07 AM
Don't take this the wrong way: 10 streak srm-6 launchers is incredibly boring and over-specialized
And I wouldn't call it a Hellwolf, instead it should be called "Streak SRM6 Mech"
And I wouldn't call it a Hellwolf, instead it should be called "Streak SRM6 Mech"
#7
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- Philanthropist
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Member
- Locationsomewhere near a bucket of water and the gates of hell.
Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:43 PM
PaintedWolf, on 08 October 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:
Maybe, but good luck finding enough DropShips and Jumpships to carry all of them. Also, C-Bills does not necessarily equate to materials. Remember the Clans pursued protomechs not out of concerns for c-bill cost, but because they used 1/10th of the ore and Smoke Jaguars were rapidly depleting their supply of metals.
As for the Alphas and ammo- those are streak missiles, meaning no ammo is wasted. By contrast the canon King Crab has a mere 5 shots with its primary weapon, and can waste heat or ammo.
Cost? The 3145 Timber Wolf 4 uses a 375 XXL Engine- that's 70 million c-bills at least more then twice what my Mech costs, and that is a canon unit and nowhere in the Tech Readout does it say cost is prohibitive.
In any case, there is probably a reason why they use Assault Mechs instead of just creating 300 Savannah Masters don't you think?
Yes and the Timber Wolf 4 by the same standards is over 60 Locusts. The Daishi (29 million C-bills) is 18 Locusts.
Again you are not considering:
1- Dropships and Jumpships are needed to transport Mechs and vehicles. It does little good to have dozens of vees or Mechs if you cannot move them.
2- C-bills does not automatically translate to materials and production. There is a reason Assault Mechs are produced instead of just 18 Locusts or 200 Savannah Masters. According to you Assault Mechs should never be produced.
3- Logistics and labor- 30 Locusts requires 30 Mechwarriors.
You also said this Mech is only useful for city fighting....okay what about forests? What about mountanous terrain?
What about Mechs that are slower and cannot run away? What about if they wait behind the first row of Mechs and leap out when the enemy gets close? What if it is hot dropped?
In any case it is pretty obvious that you are committing the fallacy of slanting the evidence: http://www.fallacyfi...g/onesided.html
http://abyss.uoregon.../fallacies.html
For example, you argue my Mech at 30 million c-bills is not practical because it costs 20 Locusts and/or 300 Savannah Masters.
You omit the fact that a Daishi at 29 million c-bills is about 18 Locusts and/or 280 Savnnah Masters. You omit the fact that the canon Mad Cat 4 is 70 million c-bills: meaning 50 Locusts and 600 Savannah Masters.
You are thus presenting all negative economic aspects of my Mech out of context, when many of your criticisms would apply to multiple canon designs.
I suppose next we will hear the fallacy of Special Pleading:
http://abyss.uoregon.../fallacies.html
"Your Mech is Cost-Prohibitive for this Special Reason while the canon designs which cost almost as much or twice as much are not for X-Special Reason. "
BTW don't even say it is because my Mech is not an Omni, the Grand Titan is not an Omni and costs 29 million c-bills. Don't say it is because it is a short-range specalist- both the Atlas and King Crab are short range specialist at 100 tons, and many variants do sport XL Engines making them about as expensive. They do have some long-range weapons, but have half as much ammo for their primary, do way, way less damage and are much, much slower.
As for the Alphas and ammo- those are streak missiles, meaning no ammo is wasted. By contrast the canon King Crab has a mere 5 shots with its primary weapon, and can waste heat or ammo.
Cost? The 3145 Timber Wolf 4 uses a 375 XXL Engine- that's 70 million c-bills at least more then twice what my Mech costs, and that is a canon unit and nowhere in the Tech Readout does it say cost is prohibitive.
In any case, there is probably a reason why they use Assault Mechs instead of just creating 300 Savannah Masters don't you think?
Yes and the Timber Wolf 4 by the same standards is over 60 Locusts. The Daishi (29 million C-bills) is 18 Locusts.
Again you are not considering:
1- Dropships and Jumpships are needed to transport Mechs and vehicles. It does little good to have dozens of vees or Mechs if you cannot move them.
2- C-bills does not automatically translate to materials and production. There is a reason Assault Mechs are produced instead of just 18 Locusts or 200 Savannah Masters. According to you Assault Mechs should never be produced.
3- Logistics and labor- 30 Locusts requires 30 Mechwarriors.
You also said this Mech is only useful for city fighting....okay what about forests? What about mountanous terrain?
What about Mechs that are slower and cannot run away? What about if they wait behind the first row of Mechs and leap out when the enemy gets close? What if it is hot dropped?
In any case it is pretty obvious that you are committing the fallacy of slanting the evidence: http://www.fallacyfi...g/onesided.html
http://abyss.uoregon.../fallacies.html
For example, you argue my Mech at 30 million c-bills is not practical because it costs 20 Locusts and/or 300 Savannah Masters.
You omit the fact that a Daishi at 29 million c-bills is about 18 Locusts and/or 280 Savnnah Masters. You omit the fact that the canon Mad Cat 4 is 70 million c-bills: meaning 50 Locusts and 600 Savannah Masters.
You are thus presenting all negative economic aspects of my Mech out of context, when many of your criticisms would apply to multiple canon designs.
I suppose next we will hear the fallacy of Special Pleading:
http://abyss.uoregon.../fallacies.html
"Your Mech is Cost-Prohibitive for this Special Reason while the canon designs which cost almost as much or twice as much are not for X-Special Reason. "
BTW don't even say it is because my Mech is not an Omni, the Grand Titan is not an Omni and costs 29 million c-bills. Don't say it is because it is a short-range specalist- both the Atlas and King Crab are short range specialist at 100 tons, and many variants do sport XL Engines making them about as expensive. They do have some long-range weapons, but have half as much ammo for their primary, do way, way less damage and are much, much slower.
dude, you used freaking mixed tech, so don't even go on about the materials. the clans don't have TSM tech at all.
I would never use a timber wolf 4 for the exact same reason. Or most clan mechs. Especially since post jihad the clan's tech advantage isn't that large, and in some cases, is behind the inner sphere. https://yourlogicalf...s.com/anecdotal
now to take on your points.
1, while it is true that dropships can take only so many mechs, virtually any dropship with a cargo bay can take a savannah master. it is smaller than most cars. a union of the cargo hauler variety could probably move a hundred savannah masters on its own (going just by tonnage it can move 300). the biggest issues with the savannah master is that it is useless in really rough terrain, and that the engine is rare.
2. Assault mechs are the rarest class (not counting superheavies because that is just a cheap shot) of mechs just because they are expensive to produce. this is why mediums and lights are by far the most common classes of mechs.
3. 40 mechwarriors is true. but it would be easier to find 40 mechwarriors than the elite tech necessary to repair your 100 tons of high tech equipment. (seriously, 2 years to train a warrior, but you would want someone with at least a decade of experience to work on that thing.)
Now for the last section.
one, the atlas, the king crab, and the grand titan ALL carry long range weapons so they are capable of fighting at all ranges. their long range armament is rather light, but they aren't helpless outside of 360 meters. your mech is helpless to anything that can move faster than a 3/5 with a range of at least 15. and i mean helpless. see why after the spoiler.
On top of that, guess what, all of those mechs are rare mechs to see. Generally they are handed out to battalion commanders or higher, because battalion commanders and up rarely see combat, so the extremely expensive mech doesn't get destroyed and have to be replaced every time. sure, it will fight sometimes, but the batt commander should only be on the front lines if things get desperate, instead he should be coordinating the whole unit, which is why you almost never see assaults fighting in anything short of a pitched battle(basically Battalion vs battalion or larger). so yeah, they are all cost prohibitive.
But at least they aren't one trick ponies.
in a forest the ranges are reduced, it is true. Even then however, sensors are generally not reduced by that far. The amount of noise an assault mech would make shouldering aside trees would alert people miles away. That plus seismic sensors and infantry pickets, which you are ill equipped to deal with.
true, if a mech is slower it could get into range, i have no argument for that. As for the next one, you are inventing tactics just so that mech could be effective. that alone should tell you its issues. What, you are going to land that mech right next to its target from orbit without everything in the vicinity shooting at it?
Spoiler
Personally i would use this to beat your mech. it is faster than your mech and has a nice spread of ranges. in every case except for swarms of elementals, it can be effective, though a bit hot. at ranges under 90 it can have issues, but anything that can get there is pretty small.
it is still on the expensive side for my tastes, though that is because of the massive engine that is installed and the reactive armor to counter your missile. for an actual dark age mech that i would be willing to use in a campaign, i would use this version instead.
Spoiler
personally during the dark ages, which at least combat wise i like the combined arms tactics, i would be in a light or a medium mech if i was in a mech at all. probably a pack hunter, cause i really like pack hunters.
on a side note, the TSM is a complete waste on that mech. You have to get at least 6 of those srms off in order to break even on heat. it requires 9 of those ssrms to fire in a single turn in order to get your heat high enough to use TSM, which if i remember right requires 9 heat in order for it to work. That means you have to fire 9 one turn, and 6 every turn after.. The odds of that happening are slim as they can only fire when there would be a hit. If you had some secondary weapons that you could use to get your heat up, it might be useful, but the way it currently is it is simply a waste of cash.
Edited by dal10, 09 October 2013 - 03:44 PM.
#8
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- Veteran Founder
- 4,242 posts
Member
- LocationLouisville, KY
Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:24 PM
In a city brawl (which is generally avoided if possible) or in mountainous regions with lots of cover your mech would be pretty powerful but it's a unitasker and unitaskers don't work so good in the variable battle conditions you would likely see in battle so I would not purchase this design if I were in charge of mech procurement. Plus from a logistics perspective, the mixed tech supply line issues are non-trivial not to mention that you're entirely dependant on your ammunition supply lines so the mech is a huge liability in an extended campaign.
More importantly, outside of your mech's ideal engagement conditions it's completely worthless. For example, if you were spotted by an old battered 3025 tech level garrision phoenix hawk outside of your engagement range, it could quite possibly eventually kill your 30 million cbill SSRM boat since it can out jump you and out range you. Plus it still requires 100 tons on the dropship even if it's completely useless for the mission so I don't see anything here that would make me take your machine over the Dire Wolf which is actually cheaper than your mech and since it's an omnimech I can give it the same jumping abilities.
More importantly, outside of your mech's ideal engagement conditions it's completely worthless. For example, if you were spotted by an old battered 3025 tech level garrision phoenix hawk outside of your engagement range, it could quite possibly eventually kill your 30 million cbill SSRM boat since it can out jump you and out range you. Plus it still requires 100 tons on the dropship even if it's completely useless for the mission so I don't see anything here that would make me take your machine over the Dire Wolf which is actually cheaper than your mech and since it's an omnimech I can give it the same jumping abilities.
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