12 replies to this topic

[Citizen Rat]

The simple question here is - Why not?

I have a number of mechs that would benefit from additional single heat sinks (particularly in the legs).

There is no reason I can see as to why a mech can't have a mix of both, but if someone has a rational explanation I am all ears.

[Captain Stiffy]

huh that's actually a really good point

there are balance reasons though... space allocation reasons

for example... in a DHS mech the max number of DHS is quite limited because you can't place them in legs, CT, head like you can SHS

[Joseph Mallan]

In Universe/Canon reasons The only time that Sinks were mixed was when they were experimenting with Doubles. There are a set of rules that allow mixed sinks, but you would have to accept the negatives along with the positives.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 October 2013 - 03:33 AM.

[Rascula]

It could be implemented easily especially if cannon rules allowed it.. Its an interesting idea that could do a lot of good.

+1 my good man!

[MustrumRidcully]

Well, it would make everyone take the double heat sink upgrade (as now), and offer the option to add single heat sinks instead of double heat sinks if you're out of crit slots.

The biggest buff the double heat sinks give you are from all the free* extra heat capacity and heat dissipation you get from the engine double heat sinks.


*) yes, it costs 1,500,000 C-Bills, but it costs you nothing in your build. no crit slots, no tonnage.

[Karl Streiger]

Wait SHS are fine - look at the Boars Head - its the only Mech that run nearly heat neutral with SHS only
BOAR'S HEAD

You will never get the same heat efficiency with DHS - only 68% with 25 DHS

If that should ever work - the engine heatsinks should not be DHS with a rate of 2.
That means the engine heatsinks have to be SHS all the time and the external DHS will work with 2.

I can't tell how that will affect combat - because high ballistic carriers with now 10 SHS instead of 10 DHS - will get problems.

Not to mention those with lots of energy weapons.

[MustrumRidcully]

Karl Streiger, on 10 October 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

Wait SHS are fine - look at the Boars Head - its the only Mech that run nearly heat neutral with SHS only
BOAR'S HEAD

You will never get the same heat efficiency with DHS - only 68% with 25 DHS

If that should ever work - the engine heatsinks should not be DHS with a rate of 2.
That means the engine heatsinks have to be SHS all the time and the external DHS will work with 2.

I can't tell how that will affect combat - because high ballistic carriers with now 10 SHS instead of 10 DHS - will get problems.

Not to mention those with lots of energy weapons.

Why not have all engine heat sinks act as doubles?

TechnoBabble explanation: Because they are installed inside the engine as part of the whole fusion reactor construction. This makes them particularly efficient, while heat sinks outside the engine must be necessarily less efficient.

Considering that the game is currenlty more or less build and balanced around DHS, changing such a fundamental aspect as the efficiency of engine sinks is just going to invite problems.

No reason to be married to TT rules here, the game is way past that anyway.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 10 October 2013 - 04:12 AM.

[NextGame]

because 1.5m cbill sink

[Karl Streiger]

MustrumRidcully, on 10 October 2013 - 04:11 AM, said:

Considering that the game is currenlty more or less build and balanced around DHS, changing such a fundamental aspect as the efficiency of engine sinks is just going to invite problems.

Never touch a running system - even when the wheel isn't a circle but a oktogon?

The most used DHS number a 14 - 20 or (if you have a light or ballistic mech just the 10 DHS)
14 DHS work like 24-25 SHS (1.8 per DHS)
20 DHS work like 34 SHS (1.7 per DHS)

So why not simple remove the two ratings for a single one at first.
After the troubled water is quiete again - you can look how to make SHS a viable choice for specalist mechs.

[MustrumRidcully]

Karl Streiger, on 10 October 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

Never touch a running system - even when the wheel isn't a circle but a oktogon?

The most used DHS number a 14 - 20 or (if you have a light or ballistic mech just the 10 DHS)
14 DHS work like 24-25 SHS (1.8 per DHS)
20 DHS work like 34 SHS (1.7 per DHS)

So why not simple remove the two ratings for a single one at first.
After the troubled water is quiete again - you can look how to make SHS a viable choice for specalist mechs.

You should have a good idea of what I would like to do about the game (lower cap, increase dissipation) But I can't have that. So let's try something that might actually work instead.

Changing engine heat sinks to all behaving like DHS seems simple enough.

The only balance implication could be that SHS now get too powerful, because DHS might be a bit more weight efficient than SHS, but far less crit efficient, and if you consider weight savings that are possible with Endo, not worth it.
For example, an Atlas with Endo gains 5 tons for 14 crits. To gain 5 tons worth of weight by using external DHS, yo probably need more than 14 crits. If you spend 14 tons on SHS, you have the same dissipation as from 10 DHS. That's 4 tons, but the difference is 30 (for 10 DHS) - 14 (for 14 SHS) = 16 Crits. So to free up 4 tons, you must sacrifice 16 Crits with DHS.

So external DHS would range somewhere between FF and Endo in weight/crit efficiency.

[Purlana]

Clan DHS only take 2 slots. When they come out feel free to fill up your legs...

[Scratx]

Tabletop rules forbid mixing, for those who don't know.

I'm not sure mixing should be allowed but at the same time I never felt the explanation for the rules actually made sense, so I don't give a {Scrap} about it.

If I'm allowed to mix DHS and SHS I'm sure I'll find a way to use that.

[Cragger]

Heatsinks in Battle tech aren't independent cooling systems. They are the heat exchanger elements to the cooling system. Boiled down to a basic automotive comparison they are the radiators and the extra coolant to fill them. You can add more radiators taking up space and adding mass but the water pump, coolant passages in the engine block, thermostat all remain the same.

This is also why in Battletech there never was such a thing as a coolant flush without an exposed coolant pod (that was explosive). Coolant in Battletech was a pressurized system indicating it was gaseous like 'Freon' in an air conditioner that utilized a compressor. Coolant pods could add coolant mass by over pressurizing the system increasing heat capacity of the coolant until it equalized.

Mechwarrior 2 (or maybe 3) is when they added free un cannon coolant flushes to make the game more 'action packed'. Anyway the point is the core components of the Double heat sinks and standard heat sinks are considered incompatible just like R12 and R134a automotive A/C systems are incompatible.