117 replies to this topic

[Menetius]

I wasn't aware that the Marauder, Marauder II, and Marauder IIC were redesigned in the Phoenix TRO.

I like the newer design.

Posted this here instead of the "Mechs & Loadouts" subforum, since there's no news of it being in the game.

[Alaskan Nobody]

The fans have not been kind to that TRO.

The marauder redesign was one of the harder hit with the mighty HateHammer.

I will warn you though, starting a discussion about it is frequently a good way to start a flame war.

[Menetius]

I wasn't aware there was such controversy about the redesign.

I'd honestly rather see the mech redesigned than remain 'unseen' thanks to TCI's poor decision to blatantly rip the artwork directly from Robotech's mecha.

Edited by Menetius, 09 October 2013 - 11:21 AM.

[Adridos]

Menetius, on 09 October 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

I'd honestly rather see the mech redesigned than remain 'unseen' thanks to TCI's poor decision to blatantly rip the artwork directly from Robotech's mecha.

TCI? Who's that?

Besides, Battletech never ripped off the artwork. They (FASA) bought it fair 'n square. Heck, Japanese courts have decided they should have won the legal battle about them. But FASA was broke at the time and HG abused that fact.

As far as Marauder redesign goes. It's fine... for a new mech. Not for a Marauder.

[Menetius]

Adridos, on 09 October 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

TCI? Who's that?

Besides, Battletech never ripped off the artwork. They (FASA) bought it fair 'n square. Heck, Japanese courts have decided they should have won the legal battle about them. But FASA was broke at the time and HG abused that fact.

As far as Marauder redesign goes. It's fine... for a new mech. Not for a Marauder.

TCI, or Twentieth Century Imports, was the parent-company of FASA, the ones who gave FASA the greenlight to use the Robotech designs. In reality, TCI never performed any such transaction with Studio Nue, the controllers of Robotech. FASA never had any right to use the artwork. Ever.

Edited by Menetius, 09 October 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[Sadistic Savior]

Menetius, on 09 October 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

I wasn't aware that the Marauder, Marauder II, and Marauder IIC were redesigned in the Phoenix TRO.

I like the newer design.

Posted this here instead of the "Mechs & Loadouts" subforum, since there's no news of it being in the game.

It is just awful...it completely takes away the "alien-ness" of the Marauder. The marauder is supposed to look spindly. That is the point of the design and why everyone likes it. The one in your link is way too beefy.

Menetius, on 09 October 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

I'd honestly rather see the mech redesigned than remain 'unseen' thanks to TCI's poor decision to blatantly rip the artwork directly from Robotech's mecha.

Same here, but it will get neutered in the process. The same thing already happened to the Battlemaster and the Locust. This is what the real thing needs to look like:



It'd be more accurate in-game too, since the scale is more accurate and the cockpit hitbox would not be so easy to target.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 09 October 2013 - 01:04 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Adridos, on 09 October 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

It's fine... for a new mech. Not for a Marauder.

Sadistic Savior, on 09 October 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

It is just awful...it completely takes away the "alien-ness" of the Marauder.

These are some of the most calm and measured responses to the reseen Marauder I have seen (or reseen?)

[dal10]

i prefer the new looks over the old ones in most cases. With the exception being the phoenix hawk. i hate the backpacks on the new ones.

[Skylarr]

Quote

Posted 14 September 2012 - 06:38 AM
An admirable effort, but containing several factual errors.

For example, none of the original Unseen artwork is derived from any of the Gundam series (which is somewhat ironic, considering how the original Mobile Suit Gundam series is widely considered the progenitor of the "Real Robot"/"non Super Robot" subgenre of mecha - a subgenre which generally includes BattleTech and many other "Western style" mecha).

-----

Super Dimension Fortress Macross (produced by Studio Nue, and distinct from Harmony Gold's Robotech) originally aired on Oct. 03, 1982.
Battledroids (the precursor to BattleTech) was originally released in sometime around August of 1984 (from the court documents, linked below).
Robotech (as distinct from Macross) originally aired on March 04, 1985.
"Battledroids" became "BattleTech" sometime in the Fall of 1985 "pursuant to a settlement between FASA and LucasFilm" (from the court documents, linked below).

And all was well... until ~1994.

• FASA CORPORATION and VIRTUAL WORLD ENTERTAINMENT, Plaintiffs, v. PLAYMATES TOYS, INC., Defendant (December 05-07, 1994)
  
• FASA CORPORATION and VIRTUAL WORLD ENTERTAINMENT, Plaintiffs, v. PLAYMATES TOYS, INC., Defendant (June 19-23, 1995)
  
• FASA CORPORATION and VIRTUAL WORLD ENTERTAINMENT, Plaintiffs, v. PLAYMATES TOYS, INC., Defendant (January 22, 1996)

In December of 1991, a FASA rep apparently met with a rep from Playmates Toys to discuss production and sales of a BT-related toyline. Playmates apparently declined a license for BT-related toys, but went ahead and produced similar designs for their ExoSquad toyline.

One example is the "ExoSquad Heavy Attack E-Frame", pictured below and clearly modeled on the Mad Cat:

In response, FASA (along with Virtual World Entertainment) sued Playmates. The details of the proceedings can be read at the above-bulleted links.

And then came the issue with Harmony Gold (who, at the time, had a business relationship with Playmates):

• HARMONY GOLD U.S.A., INC., a corporation, and PLAYMATES TOYS, INC., a corporation, Plaintiffs, v. FASA CORPORATION, a corporation, and VIRTUAL WORLD ENTERTAINMENT, a corporation, Defendants (June 12-13, 1996)
  
• HARMONY GOLD U.S.A., INC, a corporation; and PLAYMATES TOYS, INC., a corporation, Plaintiffs, v. FASA CORPORATION, a corporation; and VIRTUAL WORLD ENTERTAINMENT, a corporation, Defendants (November 06-07, 1996)

And, well, we know what happened from there...

[Karl Streiger]

Not to mention that the first Reseens series of miniatures are the best detailed miniatures with a good scale - to other reseen miniatures - not a chunk of tin like the newer ones (Titan II and Warlord are the most expensive junk i ever bought)

[ssm]

Shar Wolf, on 09 October 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

The fans have not been kind to that TRO.

The marauder redesign was one of the harder hit with the mighty HateHammer.

I will warn you though, starting a discussion about it is frequently a good way to start a flame war.

That's why we can't have nice things.

Most of BT minis (except some new designs, Clan omnis etc.) look downright horrible, and any mention* of making some new, detailed, scaled, redesigned line of, for example, classic 3025 mechs meets ironclad resistance from majority of hardcore BT fans.


Marauder is great example - Reseen one is at least looking good enough to show to somebody who I'd like to get into playing battletech. Unseen looks (to a person like that) just silly.


*Regardless of potential legal/licensing problems

Edited by ssm, 10 October 2013 - 04:43 AM.

[reign]

[color=#000000]20-5085 MAD-4X Maruader Mech (XTRO Succession Wars - 75 tons) [/color]

http://www.masteruni...it/Details/5768

Interesting that the design gets further away.. Where the Madcat 4 and Vulture 4 have really nice lines to them.

[Karl Streiger]

Well at least the reseen makes some sense considering the cockpit sizes....ever wonder how a pilot could fit into that thiny cockpit of the MAD?

[ssm]

Karl Streiger, on 10 October 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

Well at least the reseen makes some sense considering the cockpit sizes....ever wonder how a pilot could fit into that thiny cockpit of the MAD?

Hard to make it out...

[Farix]

reign, on 10 October 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

[color=#000000]20-5085 MAD-4X Maruader Mech (XTRO Succession Wars - 75 tons) [/color]

http://www.masteruni...it/Details/5768

Interesting that the design gets further away.. Where the Madcat 4 and Vulture 4 have really nice lines to them.

I was about ready to say that it looks very similar to the Marader done by Shimering Sword. Then I learned that it was also created by Shimering Sword as well.

[reign]

Farix, on 10 October 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

I was about ready to say that it looks very similar to the Marader done by Shimering Sword. Then I learned that it was also created by Shimering Sword as well.

Nice!!

[Sadistic Savior]

Karl Streiger, on 10 October 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

Well at least the reseen makes some sense considering the cockpit sizes....ever wonder how a pilot could fit into that thiny cockpit of the MAD?

It's not tiny. The Mad Cat is really big.

[Applejack]

Farix, on 10 October 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

I was about ready to say that it looks very similar to the Marader done by Shimering Sword. Then I learned that it was also created by Shimering Sword as well.

I remember this reseen.

I ******* love this reseen.

[Nemesis Duck]

Sadistic Savior, on 10 October 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

It's not tiny. The Mad Cat is really big.

MAD is Maurader I think. I read how the pilot who first witnessed the Timber Wolf had his sensors switch between MAD and CAT as it tried to identify the new mech, hence the (IS?) designation Mad Cat. Awesome back story!

As for PGI's MAD, I like the redesign in the first post and in Adridos's post. Looks alien.

[Menetius]

Sadistic Savior, on 09 October 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

Same here, but it will get neutered in the process. The same thing already happened to the Battlemaster and the Locust. This is what the real thing needs to look like:

You mean like this?



Do you see why Studio Nue had a problem with the original design of FASA's Marauder?

Edited by Menetius, 10 October 2013 - 04:38 PM.