214 replies to this topic

[xenoglyph]

Lyoto Machida, on 10 October 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

That quote you posted sorta sounds like something I'd say...except I didn't say that.

Haha, sorry! No idea how that even happened, lol

[Homeless Bill]

WarZ, on 10 October 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

[Totally unannounced and unprovoked]

[Using feature as intended / TKing not justified]

My lance mates have informed me now, that they dont bother moving anyone anymore. People are too afraid to use the feature, because of the risk that a--hats will go off and attack the leader for moving people. They admit to being attacked, and seeing other leads who used it be attacked.

Which comes back to my OP. This should have been seen coming.

If they didn't announce or request to be swapped back, they're just morons. Report and move on.

There's no marker, but clearly you're going to get shot at for doing it, so common sense says ask if there are any 4-mans and then shuffle. I'm not blaming you for using a feature, and I completely agree that PGI should have seen irritating stemming from this. Something like an option for 4-mans to lock their groups would be sufficient. Until then, adapt or die. Literally, it seems.

I'm not going to defend TKing, but just like you're saying shuffling not a big enough deal to get worked up over, I'm saying neither is teamkilling. It's never sanctioned, but there are times when people kind of have it coming, like the instance I talked about (refuses to swap group back and argues). I'm not trigger-happy with team mates, but some are more easily provoked.

Again, try asking in chat before doing it. Most people are reasonable when it's not just a ninja shuffle. Hopefully, PGI will do something to address the issue in the next couple patches.

mike29tw, on 10 October 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

lol strawman? I run with 4-men premade occasionally so I know how it works. Being in a 4-men premade doesn't suddenly make your voice matter more in tactical decisions, that's all I'm saying.

I don't disagree with this either. However if you're throwing a tantrum because you can't identified your premade teammates with the light green arrow, you're being over-dramatic.

Not asking anyone to. There are arrogant people everywhere in this game. TKing because someone is being a {Richard Cameron} and arrogant and some other non-issue like that will only make you one of them.

When I run 4-mans, I don't just want to drop with four dudes with the same camo. I want to coordinate and play together. And the last thing I need is some PUG commander that thinks he knows what loadouts we're running. A Jenner, a two Trebuchets, and an Awesome don't belong in the same lance? Wrong. LRM strike group thinks you should put us back together.

I'll follow orders, but chances are I'll be closely coordinating with the other members of my lance. Chances are it would be super convenient to be able to see their status in the upper left corner of my screen. Chances are splitting up a 4-man will do more harm than good.

I know that's not always the case, but odds are better that a 4-man has a coordinated loadout or strategy than the random lances a PUG commander throws together based on chassis. Throw four Stalkers in a group, and what kind of squad do you have? It's just a roll of the dice until PGI implements the option to designate your 'mech's combat role.

I'm glad to see people using the Command interface, but I also think that lances shouldn't have to fight for their independence. 4-mans don't have more of a say over the team strategy, but some random dude certainly doesn't have more say over their lance than the four of them.

Though I'm not a person who would throw a tantrum, it is an irritating and unnecessary inconvenience. If some people want to TK - again, particularly the PUG commanders that refuse a request to be reunited - I'm not going to judge them for it.

[Kyynele]

WarZ, on 09 October 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

You know whats cool:

Being able to adjust your team and lances so you can put the 4 lights in a lance, the 4 heavy hitting assualts in a lance, and fitting the rest of the assaults and heavies in a lance. You know matching mechs of certain speed ranges together in order for them to support each other better and not spread all over the map. A more cohesive team.

While the team is undoubtedly more cohesive to you, breaking up 4-mans in a PUG is in no way beneficial for the team. A well communicating lance is much more efficient than a non-communicating lance, even if the lance composition doesn't make sense to you. Moving these people to separate lances makes it much harder to see where the people they're communicating with are, which makes coordination harder, and increases the time required to process the information they get from their 4-man.

I play in a 4-man in the intention of playing as a lance. I'm not happy about some random guy deciding that instead of playing in the lance of my choosing, I should instead play in a lance of 3 strangers that I can't directly speak with. The attitude "what difference does it make" or "it's better this way" is really irritating, because if you can't figure out what difference it makes, you clearly haven't got what it takes to be commanding in the first place.

[King Picollo]

I don't really see how moving mechs into different lances would make a difference, people tend to stick with other mechs of similar size regardless of lance.

If i played with friends i'd rather be kept together in a lance with friends than be split up because someone has OCD and likes to arrange things by weight.

[Ahasver]

I just want to state that I simply do not like Teamkillers of any color, size, or "justification".

To the Thread starter:
1. Just ask.
2. If you take command, lead.

Rearranging is not leading. Forcing ppl to your opinion of the game is not leading.
Leading has something to do with talking to your ppl, with having a strategy AND telling others and so on.

Teamkilling is nothing to be proud of.

[King Arthur IV]

i can see it now.
additions to the uniform code of mwo:

shuffling players will be a ban-able offence. lolz

so shuffler em good while you can boyz!!

[Ahasver]

King Arthur IV, on 10 October 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

i can see it now.
additions to the uniform code of mwo:

shuffling players will be a ban-able offence. lolz

so shuffler em good while you can boyz!!

Just out of interest, where is the problem in ASKING?

[King Arthur IV]

Ahasver, on 10 October 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

Just out of interest, where is the problem in ASKING?

i dont see a problem in asking or problem in being shuffled or anything to do with the current lance colors and command systems.

why is there even a problem is the real question.

[Mycrus]

Do you ask to mount 6 pee pee cees in you mech?

This is a game functionality as broken as the pee pee cee meta was.

I for one will use it and shuffle until I can't shuffle no moar...

Feel free to *try* to TK me...

Better yet anybody that wants "to teach me a lesson", feel free to look me up in comstar NA for a duel... And save yourself a TK report

[Ahasver]

King Arthur IV, on 10 October 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

i dont see a problem in asking or problem in being shuffled or anything to do with the current lance colors and command systems.

why is there even a problem is the real question.

There seem to be a couple of ppl who do not talk or ask and like to split premades just because.

I think the "Likes" on the post in this thread show quite well how the majority thinks about this.

Edited by Ahasver, 10 October 2013 - 02:30 AM.

[MrPils]

You cannot split up a premade in game...they are on voice comms and are therefore always a group. Whatever arbitrary lance they are moved to does not matter in the slightest when they can simply say where they are over comms. Having a premade split over two or three lances is actually better for a PUG team as it has the potential to improve battlefield awareness for all involved if the premade members pass on intel to their lances (not that they ever do...too entitled and arrogant for the most part). I arrange lances before the game if it is of benefit to do so, and will continue to. Whether you are in a premade or not makes no difference, any info you get in a lance with your mates can be obtained by pressing Q or simply speaking. TKing company commanders (or QQing on the forums about it) for moving you for the benefit of the team is just childish, immature and pathetic. If you want to run your own lances then play in 12 mans, simple as that. You play in a PUG then you play PUG rules, you are 4 members of a team of 12, its not 4 of you and 8 meat shields. I would love to see people act IRL like they do in game...much face pounding would follow.

[Ahasver]

Yes, especially if one random person forces his opinion on four others.


I still do not get where the problem in asking and talking seems to be. Just the rearrangement does not help or change anything, most ppl ignore lances anyway. You need to add some information to it anyway. Like:
Charlie is a light Lance, do the intelligence, find the enemy, do not engange, meet at Theta
Beta Lance, move to Kappa, meet Alpha Lance at Theta
Alpha, go directly to Theta

How can you think that rearranging a random group to a (for every one else) random pattern of your preferncce helps anything?

[culverin]

One GOOD thing they did was to allow us to do it mid-match.


Conquest game. All heavies got slaughtered like sheep. OpFor had 9 mechs left.

I took company command, moved the 3 other remaining mechs, all light to my lance.
For a sense of "we're all that's left" and "we're in this together".

Kept barking commands via text.
Managed to pick out cap, and focus fire and win it.


If nothing else, it was good for morale purposes.

[Mighty Spike]

Zuesacoatl, on 09 October 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

I drop in premades, and to be honest, we do not talk to many of the PUGs because of the attitude that the OP and many of the others have taken in this thread. Yes, each mech class has its role, and yes, sometimes it is good to put uncoordinated mechs into same class lances. It is not smart to split premades who formed their 4 man to fit a specific style of play, sure we may run with 3 heavies and and assault one game, good maneuverability and a great follow up punch, or 2 lrm heavies, a brawler, and a spotter, 2 are specific, the brawler helps protect the boats, and the light gets us targets which seems to be a weak point for pugs.

You may have a good idea, but it does not mean it is the best, nor does it mean that everyone buys into. If you move my group around, and I ask to be put back in with my premade, you really should do it, out of respect for players, do not force your view of play on others, even if you may be right.

Right. Absolutly

[King Arthur IV]

Ahasver, on 10 October 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

There seem to be a couple of ppl who do not talk or ask and like to split premades just because.

I think the "Likes" on the post in this thread show quite well how the majority thinks about this.

the majority in this post only. whatever that is. (i dont know because i haven't payed that much attention to every post)

if someone has decided to shuffle the lances for whatever reason without your permission. how has it negatively affected your team in a way that you are sure you lost because of this move?? (im just going to assume worse case here)

does it really affect anything? if anything at all?

i will still do whatever i want to do regardless of a lance move.

[Piney II]

MrPils, on 10 October 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Having a premade split over two or three lances is actually better for a PUG team as it has the potential to improve battlefield awareness for all involved if the premade members pass on intel to their lances (not that they ever do...too entitled and arrogant for the most part). ....................................You play in a PUG then you play PUG rules, you are 4 members of a team of 12, its not 4 of you and 8 meat shields.

I play 4 mans over Teamspeak for the most part. Can't say that we're arrogant or entitled. We do share info over chat, and we rely on the rest of the team.........we're not going to win the match by ourselves.

[Ahasver]

It has affected our team since we did not have the usual lance information.

It has also affected our will to pay attention to the orders of a obviousely antisocial selfcentered random guy who
wanted to mess around without further saying anything or leading properly.

Most probably the second reaction is quite common and will not be all to good for winning the game.

Edit:
I am quite certain that the very majority of ppl does not like if someone forces his will on others. That is not anywhere concidered a good leading style. A good Leader will convince ppl to do his will and makes them believe they did as they wanted!

Edited by Ahasver, 10 October 2013 - 03:20 AM.

[King Arthur IV]

Spoiler

Ahasver, on 10 October 2013 - 03:17 AM, said:

It has affected our team since we did not have the usual lance information.

It has also affected our will to pay attention to the orders of a obviousely antisocial selfcentered random guy who
wanted to mess around without further saying anything or leading properly.

Most probably the second reaction is quite common and will not be all to good for winning the game.

Edit:
I am quite certain that the very majority of ppl does not like if someone forces his will on others. That is not anywhere concidered a good leading style. A good Leader will convince ppl to do his will and makes them believe they did as they wanted!

so when are you dropping?!? i wil sync with you and your buddies and show you how its done.

[MrPils]

Give one example of something you cannot do as a premade when split among lances. One example...anything at all you cannot accomplish by pressing Q, looking at your mini-map or using your voice comms when split from a lance. Now think of the benefits of being able to spread your increased battlefield awareness to 3 other pugs in your lance. Granted they may not listen, that's the risk you take by pugging, but anyone who does is a force multiplier for your group. You'll usually find that once you achieve majority in a course of action everyone (except Leeroy Jenkins) will tow the line. Splitting up your group amongst lances can actually help you get them to work how you want. If you're so much better than your PUG teammates then take lance command and use every advantage you can get.

[Piney II]

When we drop as a 4 man, we expect to run as a 4 man - not split up according to the wishes of some random hero who wants to be commander.