43 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

aniviron, on 10 October 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

I voted Awesomes, of course. It looks like that won't win, but if you do, here's my advice:

I do make the deciding decision, despite the poll...

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Get the 8Q first. It is relatively cheap to upgrade the stock config to a reasonable 3/4 PPC setup; really, you just need DHS, and I'm guessing you have a 275 or 300 std laying around. Move all the PPCs to the torsi.

I kinda wish I didn't sell the free STD 300 engines that come with the Atlas... now I'm just keeping a couple.

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Skip the 8T. There's no reason to have it. The four arm mounted energy hardpoints will just frustrate you; they're so low and so wide they get blocked by ridges, buildings, hills, friendly mechs, and occasionally even modest-sized boulders. The fact that you only get two torso mounted missile slots doesn't help, since both SRMs and LRMs are pointless unless you have them en masse. Get the 8R instead and run 4SRM6 + 2ppc/llas or 4LRM15.

I guess I'll find out how bad that arms are on the 8Q first...

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Get the 9M last. If you really hate the other two, that means you can just not get the 9M. Otherwise, the mech itself is like 12m if I recall, and you will probably want a 380/5 engine for it, which means another 7m cbills. You'll need to strip out all the weapons as well (maybe not the streaks) and will then have to buy more large energy weapons if you don't want to cannibalize the 8Q, which means even more money. Really, the only bright side is that it comes with DHS. Smurfy puts my current 9M build at 19m cbills.

I think I may have one laying around although it's more likely I'll use a 360XL or 370XL (both of which I already have, I think). I blame my Cent-D experimentation for making me overpay.

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Try it with 2ml + ac10/lb10. It's not fast, and it's not good, but it makes the best of a bad situation, and if you attach yourself to an assault lance it does a surprising amount of damage. Your atlas will thank you, delivering 40-60 damage to the ct of his target helps save him a lot of fire. You were just unlucky enough to buy one after they nerfed the uac5; that was the first and only time the 4x was ever really good.

The UAC5 was actually good before the buff... not so great after the nerf.

There's always the trolling AC20 Raven-4X build.

[aniviron]

Deathlike, on 10 October 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

I kinda wish I didn't sell the free STD 300 engines that come with the Atlas... now I'm just keeping a couple.

I guess I'll find out how bad that arms are on the 8Q first...

I think I may have one laying around although it's more likely I'll use a 360XL or 370XL (both of which I already have, I think). I blame my Cent-D experimentation for making me overpay.

The UAC5 was actually good before the buff... not so great after the nerf.

There's always the trolling AC20 Raven-4X build.

You can always swap out the 300s between mechs. I have one less 300 than I need, but usually at least one mech that needs it is broken due to metagaming, and it's not that big a deal to swap.

The nice thing about the 8Q is that even with 4ppc you can stuff all of them inside the torso. This means no need to keep two reticles converged, no real risk to using that arm to shield, and your arm hardpoints are at least a bit higher up, and much much closer to the center of the mech. It's too bad to lose that arm-aim precision, but really, there's a lot of reason to lose it. I do recommend at least trying out the arm and seeing how it feels to you, but I can't stand it and I don't know many who can.

A 370 wouldn't do too badly. If I had one of those laying around I'd have probably just used that instead of ponying up for the 380. That said, fitting five extra heatsinks in the engine is pretty much the best thing; that saves me so many crit slots I was able to put in endo and still have another crit slot left over. The speed and twisting really are nice, too.

The ac10 raven is actually fairly viable, or at least pretty viable for a 4X series raven. The 20 just doesn't have enough ammo to last a match on one gun alone, and if you're in one of those games where you keep hitting for 0 damage, well, let me just say it was enough to make me never run that build again.

[Training Instructor]

Dragons. You can use the same huge XL in all of them, and they're actually kind of fun to play, once you get used to skirmishing and flanking.

[Deathlike]

Before I went to bed, it was 7-7 even for either mech.

5 troll votes later, I see what you did there.

I guess I'll have to lab this one out.

"How unawesome is the Awesome? Guess the world will know something."

Edited by Deathlike, 11 October 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[CygnusX7]

After a few round with my V-9S last night I think I might pick up a couple more and grind those.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 10 October 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

So, I guess it's that weekend... double XP weekend, where I find an excuse to grind something I like (or rather, don't like, but an interested to find out something from the mech).

I am willing to be trolled or trolling you, so here's your chance to see my ELO battered further by grinding bad mechs.

Though, I completely regret grinding the C4... I wanted to do a poll of variants I hadn't grinded, but meh.

So, it boils down to two options:
1) Dragon - I like the Quickdraw better, but perhaps hit and run would be interesting for a change. I do it enough as is with other variants, so it's something worth trying (and whining about).

2) Awesome - One of the infamously bad barn doors mechs, I will get to find out how bad this disaster happens to be... and not just keep wondering why I practically never see PBs on the field. I will field the following variants unless someone can suggest a reason to try a different variant (excluding the PB, because I'm not paying for a known disaster): 8Q, 8T, and 9M.

You can suggest mechs that I have not mastered, but that's limited to what I've listed on my sig, and including the Commando, Jagermech (I had enough fun with a BJ, thanks ), Orion, and Kintaro. I will lean towards the two primary mechs listed, unless you can give a compelling reason why I should try a specific mech.

IDK but I'll be curious what you come up with. I'm just planning to at least first, use every single mech til I get their first victory of the day, and have that XP squirreled away for the next 1/2 off MC/Conversion weekend.

[Deathlike]

I've finished grinding the basics on the 8Q.

AWS-8Q
That's what I came up with.

I'm not sure which one to goto next. I'm leaning towards the 9M though.

What I've learned so far...

Good:
It drives alright, kinda hard to know how much better things are when the basics aren't doubled yet.
The arms don't really seem to be that much lower than the torso weaponry, so it's not a true negative.
It has a really wide cockpit... which makes it a bit more desirable to use freelook with shooting through the arms.

Bad:
The CT is too damn large. What I've been shooting at matches exactly how every freaking Awesome pilot has complained about for ages.
Without needing to test out the PB, the deceleration is about the same like most assaults... which is pretty poor before ANY efficiencies are applied. Any penalty to deceleration, especially in the case of the PB, is a completely bad idea and totally undesirable.

Initial suggestions:
Increase engine cap to 325 at least for non-9M/PB Awesomes. - This allows for XL engines to be an option, as the CT is insanely large and needs a hitbox change, but the Awesome needs a tad more mobility on the whole that is addressed through higher grade engines.
Increase the torso twist range to 120 and increase the torso twist speed. - The torso twisting is fairly good, but it's not entirely fast enough to twist the torso quickly to use the arm as the shield after firing.
Improve the hitboxes, obviously. - If any rescaling is to be done, try to move the arm weapon firing point of origin up a little, at the level of the torso if not slightly higher.

That is all for now.

The mech is fine in a support role, but it is definitely not made to be a front line mech like the Victor it competes with. It is like the current iteration of the Orion... not a mech to be used up front at all.

Edited by Deathlike, 11 October 2013 - 04:41 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Always nice to read your experiences with different mechs, Deathlike. Cheers!

[Ngamok]

I am running the 8V on my alt account and Ilike it

[Deathlike]

Here's some thoughts and irony.

AWS-9M

That's what I'm using, and it's interesting as I'm forced to use actual trigger discipline... which could be mistaken for "self-survival". There is some crazy synergy that exists with "bad mech torsos" and PPCs where it is optimal to go the PPC route. Medium lasers are not a bad thing, since it's irrelevant what you are using if you are at brawling range... it's trying to absorb as little damage as possible before you reach brawling range.

Streaks are the optimal weapon of choice on the 9M... the problem is that 1 SSRM2 is kinda useless (see Jenner-K). If you're going to commit to Streaks, you will want a pair of streak launchers (until we get clan SSRM4s).. which the original 9M design favors.

Here's an alternative build concept off the 9M:
AWS-9M

I haven't tried it yet, but haven't really needed to.

The 3rd mech I chose was the 8T... based on potential labbing, that seemed optimal to me. Although.. the 8V suddenly looks better now. The 8R.... I don't understand the module slot removal, and that nerf needs to be addressed.

New findings:
The 8T's arms is coming into play a bit, as I'm occasionally struggling to hit targets due to the "Atlas arm effect".

Having tried to use ER Larges in the current Stalker-meta, it works ok, but the Stalker simply does it better.... but I've gotten close (I will rebuild the damn mech anyhow):
AWS-8T

I'm starting to think the engine speed expansion should actually increase to 360. A Standard 300 engine actually matches up with a 360XL engine in terms of tonnage... and IMO it seems worth expanding the Awesome's engines options that far. It needs all the mobility it can get with its mega-large torso.

The ER Large has somewhat poor synergy to the Awesome... the longer the Awesome's CT is exposed, the more likely you'll be killed (which, surprises noone).

I have only ONE theoretical PB build that should "work", but is sub-optimal.
PRETTY BABY

The build resembles most like a Catapult C1-C4 hybrid build w/o JJs. Although I guess it would be optimal to go ASRM4 across the board (because of the tubes), but the current state of SRMs make that less than usuable. In fact, the 8R suffers a lot from the SRM options... with the 8V and 8T to a lesser degree (the 9M doesn't benefit from it at all).

Mega PB suggestion: Other than removing the deceleration nerf, an added CT energy hardpoint makes the most sense. Allowing the build to go 3 ER Large or 2 ER PPC + 2 meds + streak/SRM combo makes the most sense.

The thing is, the PB on its own stock build looks like a terribad PGI frankenbuild (refer to the build a Heavy mech contest of March aka long ago where PGI picks terribad mech builds to represent). The mech itself is almost unsalvageable to a min-maxer standards and one thing that really holds back most good builds is the head energy slot. It has the "most synergy" with a torso energy slot... and the 9M has a really low firing angle (think Centurion). I know that the Awesome has commonly used the head energy hardpoint is used for TAG, but low synergy reduces overall build options. That is also why boating is rather important...

[NRP]

LOL, it turns out I'm grinding Orions.

[Deathlike]

NRP, on 12 October 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

LOL, it turns out I'm grinding Orions peeling Onions.

Fixed for you.

[Deathlike]

So, I did have one additional suggestion:

The mech movement is on par with the Atlas, which makes no sense IMO. The Stalker for whatever silly reason is able to climb over hills better than the Atlas, let alone the Awesome.

The thing is that the wide profile of the Awesome, other than being so CT coreable is that it makes shooting from it at really huge chore. Imagine if a teammate/friendly Spider was in front of you, when you're trying to shoot around... it's not a big deal. Imagine if you're trying to shoot around a friendly Awesome... not only is your view obstructed, but it gets worse. The slightly low arms make your aim far more difficult to make, more likely causing friendly fire to relatively bigger mechs that are in front of the Awesome. A Stalker with its high firing point does not have to deal with that.

Also, it gets worse where the Awesome gets stuck in stuff that a Victor, Atlas, Stalker, or a Highlander would not due to its profile. Changing the movement profile would at least mitigate some of these issues.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 October 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[Oppresor]

The Awesome really isn't a bad Mech. Try fitting it with 3 x PPC; two firing together and the other on a separate key; Oh and don't forget, don't go anywhere near the FEBA without an AMS. Good luck.

[CrashieJ]

HUNCHBACKS, GRIND THEM WHILE YOU CAN

[NRP]

Deathlike,
If you haven't already done so, you might want to try this 9M build:

XL370
3 PPCs
3 Streaks
BAP

Use the Advanced Target Decay and 360 Target Retention modules. And remember to chain fire the PPCs.

[Deathlike]

gavilatius, on 12 October 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

HUNCHBACKS, GRIND THEM WHILE YOU CAN

That was actually easy and enjoyable, compared to the Awesome.

NRP, on 12 October 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Deathlike,
If you haven't already done so, you might want to try this 9M build:

XL370
3 PPCs
3 Streaks
BAP

Use the Advanced Target Decay and 360 Target Retention modules. And remember to chain fire the PPCs.

I'll look into it, but no promises.

[Ngamok]

gavilatius, on 12 October 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

HUNCHBACKS, GRIND THEM WHILE YOU CAN

I GOT EVERY VARIANT AT MASTER AND IN MY MECH BAY !!

[Deathlike]

So, one of the things I'm finding out in the Awesome is that... my armor feels a lot like paper mache. I have tinkered with my armor values and unless there is some sort of damage magnetism that Awesomes don't already have... I have set armor to levels that would resemble a Highlander or Atlas, but I feel like I have the armor of a Catapult.

Maybe someone needs to run some special tests on them... it's almost as if there was some ninja damage modifier that I'm not accounting for. When I set the CT armor value to 90+, it should live a lot longer. I know how long an Atlas, Highlander, Stalker (and someday Victor) feels in the armor, but this is maddening.

The same could be same for the Orion, but it's just squishy... the Awesome simply feels inferior to the Victor, and they have the same armor values IIRC... it doesn't remotely feel the same armor-wise.

BTW, I mastered all basics on Saturday morning, and as of now, I've elited all Awesomes.

Hopefully, the madness will end sometime Sunday or Monday. They will be sold, and be forgotten... not without a bit more whining.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 October 2013 - 10:40 PM.

[aniviron]

Deathlike, on 12 October 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

So, one of the things I'm finding out in the Awesome is that... my armor feels a lot like paper mache. I have tinkered with my armor values and unless there is some sort of damage magnetism that Awesomes don't already have... I have set armor to levels that would resemble a Highlander or Atlas, but I feel like I have the armor of a Catapult.

Maybe someone needs to run some special tests on them... it's almost as if there was some ninja damage modifier that I'm not accounting for. When I set the CT armor value to 90+, it should live a lot longer. I know how long an Atlas, Highlander, Stalker (and someday Victor) feels in the armor, but this is maddening.

The same could be same for the Orion, but it's just squishy... the Awesome simply feels inferior to the Victor, and they have the same armor values IIRC... it doesn't remotely feel the same armor-wise.

BTW, I mastered all basics on Saturday morning, and as of now, I've elited all Awesomes.

Hopefully, the madness will end sometime Sunday or Monday. They will be sold, and be forgotten... not without a bit more whining.

I advanced a theory on a later page of the Spider Hitbox proof thread that most mechs might have these holes, and that what makes the awesome so fragile is that it's the only mech that doesn't have them. I was half-joking, but only half. The thing is, it's hard to test negatively like that.

NRP, on 12 October 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Deathlike,
If you haven't already done so, you might want to try this 9M build:

XL370
3 PPCs
3 Streaks
BAP

Use the Advanced Target Decay and 360 Target Retention modules. And remember to chain fire the PPCs.

I will vouch for this build, I ran it on my 9M for a long time. Because I love pain I prefer to run my 9M as a brawler/striker so I didn't wind up keeping it, but it is a very good build. When I was running it BAP didn't cancel ECM, so I ran with a 380 and no BAP, and just used the PPCs to debuff the ECM once every five seconds. The only problems with it I found were that running streaks pretty much forces you to get Artemis, which just means sinking more money into the mech, and the fact that I never really felt like I was utilizing the mech's great speed, its only strong point, while I was behind my own lines with PPCs.