47 replies to this topic

[NextGame]

GlaDOSisaPotato, on 10 October 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Ghost Heat pretty much ruined a lot of builds, and made it to where you basically have to have a couple of lasers, an SRM, or an LRM, and a Ballistic weapon of some sort. I appreciate what they tried to do, but at the same time they could have made it better. For example, Ghost Heat should only apply if you fire multiple weapons that are in the same portion of your Mech. The concept behind this is that if you fire a weapon that generates heat, the weapon would then warm up another hardpoint, or weapon, and then the second weapon would fire at an already increased temperature. This would only affect hardpoints that are next to each other in the same portion of the mech.

The solution, as mentioned early in the thread, is to remove it

Buzzkillin, on 10 October 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

So can anyone explain to me ghost heat? Took a break for awhile and this word pops up everywhere.

Good luck making any sense of this completely arbitrary and illogical system.

[MechFrog1]

Its stated purpose was to deal with high damage alphas, which it failed to do. The PPCaggeddon didn't end until they went in and changed the behavior of the weapon itself.

Established that it failed at its singular purpose, ghost heat should be removed from the game. It's an unnecessary complication to an already complex game. It's also a total mystery to a new player who will quit out of frustration long before they find the one dev post that attempts to explain it.

Edited by mint frog, 10 October 2013 - 10:48 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Instead of additional caclculations and additional programming Ghost Heat - could removed and replaced by the actual heat system by simple math - the only draw back - it hurt all Mechs - doesn't matter if you fire a ER-Large Laser a PPC two LRM 20 LRM and 2 MLAS at the same time - would be the same as firing three ER-PPCs

As said Math is simple:
TLDR:
Simple Math or not?

Increase heat dissipation at factor 2.4 increase heat production per shot at factor 1.7-1.8.

Optional -> make all DHS even at a base factor of 1.8 (would be around 4-4.3 with this modell)
Optional -> increase the efficency of heat sinks with raising numbers - every heatsink above 10 give a bonus

---

Explanation:

Look you fire 3 PPCs and get heat of 42 -> An Aweseome 8Q with 28 SHS - has a heat capacity of 58 - he can take the heat burden - after 4sec he can even fire 1-2 PPCs in chain to avoid shutdown - but thats it...for the next 20 secs that mech isn't a thread to anybody.

OK - he can fire 2 - 1 - 2- 1 but you have to admit thats not the way it should be:

So a REAL solution - not a i want that to play my broken mech again in disguise - have to combine both aspects - extreme heat for Alpha Firing weapons - but still the abillity for Mechs to keep up a barrage when they are desgined to do this.

So I said Heat capacity is 58...a 3 Alpha of PPCs should bring the Mech to its upper limit, but also allow it to cool down in some second to take a second barrage.

Yes you are right - at first we need a higher heat dissipation.

Second we need more heat.

WTF? - More Heat: If each PPC generates 17,5 instead of 10 heat (175%)...an Alpha Strike will create 52,5 heat.

To cool this down in lets say 7 seconds to fire two additonal PPCs - and another 7 seconds for another tripple AlphaStrike

That means it has to cool down more than 35 heat in less than 7 seconds.



You see that a 3 -2 -3 combination will reduce heat so that you loose heat capacity - you have to fire faster.

What is the problem: Every Mech with at least a heat capacity of 58 and a heat dissipation of 2.8 (after that change it would be -2,4 hps per Single Heatsink)

BTW: when firing 4 PPCs you are at 72 heat with ghost heat you are at 73.5

[Optional]

the efficency is increasing with the number of heatsinks.

when 20 SHS will have a better cooling efficency instead of 10 engine heat sinks -> mechs try to exploit the heat system may have a harder stand.

Lets suggest that the Awesome above with 28 SHS got additional 18% percent cooling per heatsink - it would be able to fire every 7 seconds an alpha or every 5-6 seconds a 3-2-3 combination

[Optional2]

DHS - first reduce cooling for DHS towards 1.8 per heat sink doesn't matter if in engine or outside

the 240% rating of this modell may increase the dissipation towards 4,32.

how does the AWS-9m compute?

Shame to let things work the base heat of the ER-PPC reduced to 12.5 (that is what some of you folks want ey?)
That means a single tap of the ERPPC generate ~ 22 heat.

With 20 DHS this Mech has a Heat capacity of 66 - exactly what is needed for firing 3 ER-PPCs.
With those changes the Awesome is capable (with option 1 and a increased dissipation of 1.1) of firing a 3-2-3 combinaion each 6 second cyle.

However that is only multiplication - you can of course make much smoother changes (for example: heat for AC 2 = 1.5 , UAC5 - 2; AC-5 - 3, Gauss -> 3.5)


What do you think?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 10 October 2013 - 11:46 PM.

[Xanquil]

I agree ghost heat needs to go away, but what needs to be done in order to get rid of it? The fact that the community has come up with a lot of ideas to do so (some good some bad) yet we still can't agree on one, it's no wonder we still have ghost heat. Than again it isn't our job to fix it. All we can do is keep coming up with ideas in the hopes that one of them is good enough to get PGI to use it. (not to likely I know, but one can hope )

[FupDup]

Xanquil, on 11 October 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

I agree ghost heat needs to go away, but what needs to be done in order to get rid of it? The fact that the community has come up with a lot of ideas to do so (some good some bad) yet we still can't agree on one, it's no wonder we still have ghost heat. Than again it isn't our job to fix it. All we can do is keep coming up with ideas in the hopes that one of them is good enough to get PGI to use it. (not to likely I know, but one can hope )

Well, we could just modify our entire heat system to be low-capacity-high-dissipation instead of our current high-capacity-low-dissipation, but PGI already stated that heat neutral mechs would be highly exploitable by people with knowledge of building heat neutral mechs.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

There is only one system that can provide the same function as the the current Heat Tax system, and it is Hardpoint restrictions. Without either of those system the game becomes too arcady, and gets further and further from its Mechwarrior/Battletech roots.

[focuspark]

The "solution to ghost heat" is to remove it completely from the game.

[aseth]

Yes, ghost heat is bad. A proper convergence fix would be vastly superior to strange rules that aren't readily apparent or expected.