6 replies to this topic

[DrnkJawa]

Do you think that the 55ton mechs will make the 50tonners obsolete?

After the shadowhawk no one looks at Hunchback 4G or Centurion 9A as a balistics platform(Cent is still looked at as a zombie with SRM's).

So was wondering when the sabre mechs hit the markets will they take the light away from trebs and um....what else do we have?

[oldradagast]

Yes and no:

1) When tonnage limits hit, those 5 tons (as small as they are) might matter. In short, the 55-tonners are not "directly superior" to the 50-tonners since they do weigh 5 tons more and that will matter a bit in the future.

2) The 50-tonners tend to be faster. Again, we're talking about a small difference, but it is easier for a 50-tonner to hit a higher speed while still retaining excellent firepower vs. a 55-tonner. A small difference, but it is there.

That being said, the above 2 points are rather small ones. In general, yes, the 55-tonners are superior to the 50-tonners in almost every way. There are a few exceptions that come to mind:

1) Hunchbacks still have superior torso twist over nearly everything in the game. If that matters to you, you'll still want to play them.

2) Centurions are still good zombies, and the Wang can mount an AC20 in the arm which none of the 55-tonners can do. Again, small points, but they may matter to some.

3) The Trenchbucket has... oh, who am I kidding. This one's a goner.

Still, when one gets down to it, the 55-tonners offer a bit more overall as well as jump-jets, making them the better mechs in nearly all cases.

And yet, I'll still play my Hunchbacks now and again...

[Bront]

oldradagast, on 02 January 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

2) The 50-tonners tend to be faster. Again, we're talking about a small difference, but it is easier for a 50-tonner to hit a higher speed while still retaining excellent firepower vs. a 55-tonner. A small difference, but it is there.

The problem is they aren't because the 55 tonners have higher engine caps and the tonnage to throw at it, and in several cases fit better with XL engines to boot.

That said, a good Hunchie SP can be useful, and the Cent Zombie build isn't bad (though it got nerfed a bit with the hitbox fix), and the Treb... well... yeah, there's not much appealing about a treb.

Balance and the Meta are fickle things though. All it takes is one weapon patch, and suddently the Cent or Hunchie or Treb get new life.

[oldradagast]

Bront, on 02 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

The problem is they aren't because the 55 tonners have higher engine caps and the tonnage to throw at it, and in several cases fit better with XL engines to boot.

That said, a good Hunchie SP can be useful, and the Cent Zombie build isn't bad (though it got nerfed a bit with the hitbox fix), and the Treb... well... yeah, there's not much appealing about a treb.

Balance and the Meta are fickle things though. All it takes is one weapon patch, and suddently the Cent or Hunchie or Treb get new life.

Let me rephrase that: if using a standard engine in each, and if wishing to retain enough tonnage to carry about the same firepower, the 50-tonners are a bit faster than the 55-tonners. However, as you said, the 55-tonners have a higher engine cap. Still, using this advantage means going XL and/or giving up some firepower. Of course, there's also the situation that the 55-tonners have better hitboxes for XL engines than the 50-tonners, so the Xl risk is not as high here as it is in other comparisons.

So, from an absolute viewpoint, the 55-tonners can be faster, but that comes at a cost.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 January 2014 - 11:32 AM.

[QuackAttack]

Depending on the loadout the 50 tonners are still excellent. Specifically I find that the Hunchback is a vastly superior AC20 platform then the Shadow Hawk due to a better torso twist. The Trebs with 15tube launchers are nice as well, thou I'm starting to favor my Griffin where I can put a 15 and 2 10s.

[Victor Morson]

DrnkJawa, on 01 January 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Do you think that the 55ton mechs will make the 50tonners obsolete?

Already has. Shadow Hawk is superior to all the 50 tonners.

[Bront]

oldradagast, on 02 January 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Let me rephrase that: if using a standard engine in each, and if wishing to retain enough tonnage to carry about the same firepower, the 50-tonners are a bit faster than the 55-tonners. However, as you said, the 55-tonners have a higher engine cap. Still, using this advantage means going XL and/or giving up some firepower. Of course, there's also the situation that the 55-tonners have better hitboxes for XL engines than the 50-tonners, so the Xl risk is not as high here as it is in other comparisons.

So, from an absolute viewpoint, the 55-tonners can be faster, but that comes at a cost.

True, sort of.

A 55 ton mech has 4.5 tons more to play with (5 tons, minus the .5 tons of extra internal weight). However, it needs a larger engine to go the same speed. For example, a 250 engine vs a 275 engine give the 50/55 ton mechs the same speed, and the 275 engine only weighs 3.5 tons more, so in that case the 55 ton mech has a single ton of more room than the 50 tonner. Going up to the 275/300, its still 3.5 ton difference in weight, so the 55 ton mech still has a small tonnage advantage (though admittedly, that's a very small speed hit, but there's no 302.5 engine and the 305 engine isn't worth the extra 1.5 tons)

The bigger advantage isn't just speed, but mobility, as 3 of the 4 55 ton mechs have JJ, while only the Treb has them on some models in the 50 ton bracket, and since you usually only need 2 jjs, well, if you're in the above mentioned speed comparisons, it's free tonnage. At least the Treb can potentially go even faster than a 275 engine, at which point the Treb has a few advantages in speed (and I don't think the Treb has bad hitboxes for an XL, it's just huge)