62 replies to this topic

[Equalizer]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

so yet another noble mechwarrior who mistakes bugged hit detection for any amount of actual skill on his own part.

If he thinks he is great now, he woulda LOVED the good old days in the Invincible ECM Raven-3L. If you didn´t pull 1000 pts with them, you didn´t even bother posting the screenshot.

I remember these days and I didn't post to showcase my skill (think I stated I'm terrible with lights ), but rather show how freakin bugged spiders are. Kinda agree they're not as bad as old 3Ls though.

[Corwin Vickers]

Again, a fundamental inability to understand the basics of the game. First of all it was taken from a spectators point of view and with HSR we have no idea whether those players were hitting or not. If you do not understand this please go look up how HSR works.

We had no paper doll to look at while those players were shooting at the spider so we don't know what the server was seeing since the paper doll is the only window into what the server actually sees.

Those other mechs didn't know how to play the game. Trying to turn while running full speed ahead in a stalker? How about a blackjack that stops at the top of the hill so he can aim. You notice the spider didn't need to stop moving to aim, that's because he can actually aim though I would have probably done a lot less forward and back and a lot more sideways Will I Am.

In case people here don't actually know this, and from the responses it's very likely, lasers only do full damage if you keep them on the enemy for the entire duration of the beam. Waving them back and forth like a garden hose isn't going to kill anything.



Bad quality, no hud, didn't point out that all those mechs were already ravaged by the OP who was also the pilot... I call troll.

People that think this is evidence are bad. Only thing this proves is that people need to L2P

[Bishop Steiner]

Equalizer, on 14 October 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

I remember these days and I didn't post to showcase my skill (think I stated I'm terrible with lights ), but rather show how freakin bugged spiders are. Kinda agree they're not as bad as old 3Ls though.

actually I was referring to the OP, not yours. I stink in Lights, but did really wicked things in the 3L back in the day (in fact, if I got tired of steamrolls and other {Scrap}, I would grab my 3L and go decimate). About the only Lights I have ever done decent in are the 3L, ECM Spiders and oddly, the Champ Jenner.

[Ghogiel]

It's not anywhere NEAR as stupid as RVN 3LEL during lag shield, no Elo matchmaker, SSRMs tracking CT days.

ATM no lights can be played like you used to be able to. Though the SDRs out there try pretty hard to pull stuff like that, only about half the time gets away with it though.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ghogiel, on 14 October 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

It's not anywhere NEAR as stupid as RVN 3LEL during lag shield, no Elo matchmaker, SSRMs tracking CT days.

ATM no lights can be played like you used to be able to. Though the SDRs out there try pretty hard to pull stuff like that, only about half the time gets away with it though.

yeah, I´d agree with that. Because the days my client and hit registration DO want to play nice together, I do 1 shot pop a fair share of SDRs.

I just hate that 273 of the time or more, I can shoot a parked or overheated spider with an AC40 only to watch it wizz off again, with at worst MAYBE a missing arm. (Hey PGI, that´s 2 hits for 20 each, not 1 for 40 to go through all the halvings of damage transfer. Hence, first shot takes arm, second should take torso. It´s not hard to figure out, really)

[Steelgrave]

Vassago Rain, on 14 October 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

You can even see them aiming at something that's not there. All their shots always miss, because of the lagshield.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Seemed like they were shooting a mirage. Of course, it could be simply bad marksmanship, but at one or two points the BJ clearly nails the spider with a PPC or two. That should be no small problem for such a light mech, but he seemed to weather it abnormally well.

Now one could say it was a minimum range issue, but it looked like it was still out beyond 90m, to me at least.

The thing I do know is I've had a bothering number of matches where I plugged spiders with what should have been crippling firepower for a light only to have them caper off unhindered.

I guess their spider-sense was tingling.

But that to me highlights the real concern. It's not that spiders can't die. They can and do. It's that they seem to absorb a disproportionate amount of firepower before they do.

Edited by Steelgrave, 14 October 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[TexAce]

Ghogiel, on 14 October 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

It's not anywhere NEAR as stupid as RVN 3LEL during lag shield, no Elo matchmaker, SSRMs tracking CT days.

ATM no lights can be played like you used to be able to. Though the SDRs out there try pretty hard to pull stuff like that, only about half the time gets away with it though.

the other half I'm there with my Kintaro. harhar

[wirikidor]

My jaw hit the floor the other day when I dual AC/20'd a spider in the CT, it registered the hit, didn't die... but still killed me.

Now I'm running my old RVN-3L and chasing down spiders for spite.

[Curccu]

wirikidor, on 14 October 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

My jaw hit the floor the other day when I dual AC/20'd a spider in the CT, it registered the hit, didn't die... but still killed me.

Now I'm running my old RVN-3L and chasing down spiders for spite.

Pick side torso if you can, from frontside or leg

[Clit Beastwood]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

actually I was referring to the OP, not yours. I stink in Lights, but did really wicked things in the 3L back in the day (in fact, if I got tired of steamrolls and other {Scrap}, I would grab my 3L and go decimate). About the only Lights I have ever done decent in are the 3L, ECM Spiders and oddly, the Champ Jenner.

Seriously - how good was that champ jenner? I took one out on a whim and it just *worked*

[Bishop Steiner]

Fierostetz, on 14 October 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Seriously - how good was that champ jenner? I took one out on a whim and it just *worked*

I don´t think it is very good, but for some reason I did better in it than my other Jenners. Hence the "oddly" comment?

[PropagandaWar]

Rhaythe, on 14 October 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

I saw a decent spider pilot there tearing apart slow-moving mechs that couldn't shoot straight. What's the issue? If you pause at 1m32s, his paper-doll is registering damage all over his mech.

Yeah but again I bet he was shooting at what he thought was the spider. Except when the spider was standing still it looked like they were all shooting to the left of it.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

don´t let FupDup hear ya say that. If anything, he thinks they should be smaller.

PropagandaWar, on 14 October 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

lol. I like the Fup. But he is so wrong in this.

Nice try, but big brother was watching you guys.


But seriously. Lights don't need to be the size of mediums. Were either of you guys playing the game sometime last year when the Spider was first added? Nobody called it overpowered. No one. Nada. The mech is the same it's always been, it's just that people look at it differently and hit registration is wonky.

PropagandaWar, on 14 October 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

If a Shadowhawk is super tall a spider needs to be too.

Your conclusion does not follow from your premise. One mech being mis-scaled doesn't mean more of them have to be as well.

PropagandaWar, on 14 October 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I still think rescaling would solve a ton of issues with that POS mech.

The only issue is hit detection.

Edited by FupDup, 14 October 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Nice try, but big bro was watching you guys.


But seriously. Lights don't need to be the size of mediums. Were either of you guys playing the game sometime last year when the Spider was first added? Nobody called it overpowered. No one. Nada. The mech is the same it's always been, it's just that people look at it differently and hit registration is different.

I have always said it was too small. Nothing to do with OP lack of hit registry. Just that the noticeably larger Jenner doesn't seem to suffer such survivabiltiy issues. What it needs more than ridiculously broken size (which just sets ANOTHER bad scaling precedent in PGI´s illustrious history of such) is hard point proliferation like so many other mechs got. It would not NEED to be stupidly tiny if it actually had firepower to begin with.

Also scaling larger, in line between the Commando and the Jenner/Raven is not remotely the same as making it the size of a Medium.

[RickySpanish]

None of those Mechs took much damage from the spider before they keeled over. Maybe 3-4 laser hits and some machine gun fire (which spreads itself fairly wide over the target). He also stopped dead in front of the stalker, which should have awarded him with something like half his Mech remaining intact but instead the stalker missed entirely. The guy was also alpha striking which is a terrible idea against anything fast moving unless you are an amazing shot. I played a match against a Spider lance in my Orion VA this weekend. It got me a 7 kill game because my streaks tore them to shreds, let alone the AC20 and MLAS combo And yes, the VA does have a BAP so the 5Ds were crying as well hehe.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

I have always said it was too small. Nothing to do with OP lack of hit registry. Just that the noticeably larger Jenner doesn't seem to suffer such survivabiltiy issues.

That's because the Jenner has a big jutting CT, and hit detection seems to benefit Spideys to a larger degree than Jenners for some unknown reason. When hit detection was working (post-ballistic HSR time period), Spiders were not any tougher than the other lights and were actually kinda squishier (and Raven food).

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

What it needs more than ridiculously broken size (which just sets ANOTHER bad scaling precedent in PGI´s illustrious history of such) is hard point proliferation like so many other mechs got. It would not NEED to be stupidly tiny if it actually had firepower to begin with.

So it becomes a humanoid Jenner? I guess it might work, but it might be rather boring (due to more lights doing the same things). And anyways, it's "ridiculously broken size" is very close to the other lights (see below).

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Also scaling larger, in line between the Commando and the Jenner/Raven is not remotely the same as making it the size of a Medium.

It's actually already pretty close to Jenner height. As the for the Commando, the Commie is almost the same height as the Jenner. The Spider is basically is slightly taller Commando with skinnier arms and very slightly thinner legs.

Edited by FupDup, 14 October 2013 - 02:22 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

That's because the Jenner has a big jutting CT, and hit detection seems to benefit Spideys to a larger degree than Jenners. When hit detection was working (post-ballistic HSR time period), Spiders were not any tougher than the other lights and were actually kinda squishier (and Raven food).



So it becomes a humanoid Jenner? I guess it might work, but it might be rather boring (due to more lights doing the same things). And anyways, it's "ridiculously broken size" is very close to the other lights (see below).



It's actually pretty close to Jenner height. As the for the Commando, it's almost the same height as the Jenner.

nice use of 2 dimensions to try to formulate the defense.

The Commando is both wider, longer and noticeably thicker than the 5 ton heavier SDR (poor lil ******'s arms can´t help but pop right off, lol). The Jenner, as noted has a rather "are ya happy to see me" CT. Ant the Raven has that PLUS is noticeably taller (though admittedly, lankier)

And when I see a Jenner with 4 ballistic, I´ll call the Spider a humanoid Jenner. And even if they shared hardpoints, no reason to continue borking the scale. Starting to wonder if I'm parking on your Epeen or something here bro , wasn´t aware the SDR had become your pet ride.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 October 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Ghogiel]

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

But seriously. Lights don't need to be the size of mediums. Were either of you guys playing the game sometime last year when the Spider was first added? Nobody called it overpowered. No one. Nada. The mech is the same it's always been, it's just that people look at it differently and hit registration is wonky.

Remember the saying "Ravens eat spiders"

Why would anyone complain about the spider when every match was full of RVN3LEL lagshield SSRMs CTing everything?
It was hard to last 5seconds in a murder of RVNs that was on every team back then.

Edited by Ghogiel, 14 October 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

I don´t think it is very good, but for some reason I did better in it than my other Jenners. Hence the "oddly" comment?

thats what I meant too - I took it out for a spin and it worked. Not my cup of tea, but it worked.
I was agreeing with you - replace "good" with "surprisingly effective" for my intended meaning.

Edited by Fierostetz, 14 October 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ghogiel, on 14 October 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Remember the saying "Ravens eat spiders"

Why would anyone complain about the spider when the every match was full of RVN3LEL lagshield SSRMs CTing everything?
It was hard to last 5seconds in a murder of RVNs that was on every team back then.

Good point, actually. SSRMs were the meal ticket for Lights back in the day.